Lord General's Carapace Armor

[Dark Riku]

This does make sense. Are you responsible for balancing? Or maybe Torpid? Or maybe Tex? Or maybe am I? Caeltos is. And if he doesn't give his comments about the matter then he gives no fuck about the matter and hence what is the point for us to stubbornly trying to prove our "truths" to each other?

No it doesn't make sense at all. Caeltos reads through all the posts and takes from them what he wants. I understand very much why anyone wouldn't reply at all to you even if said person had spare time. Big waste of time.

When you will have your rights to moderate the forum then I will be listening to your words. Report my message. But I highly doubt that someone will consider that as an off-topic message. I am talking about my previous messages, not about this one. You led me to off-topic.

How the fuck is it not off topic? You tell everyone to stop debating because...?
You aren't getting your way? Or some other imaginary reason?
Then you continue to mention what you are going to do next.
Good for you. This isn't Facebook.

[Caeltos]

Actually, I've been monitoring this thread since it started. I just wanted people to voice abit of their own opinion, and I've been playing the LG with the armor abit to give it a spin in how it's working out.

[Lulgrim]

if he doesn't give his comments about the matter then he gives no fuck about the matter

That's a bit of a... leap in your deduction.

[Sub_Zero]

Of course you have, I don't doubt, but even a quick response to my personal message would have prevented this train of useless messages. There are some threads where you haven't given an answer. And guys were discussing it for a long time and came to nothing but holy wars. Sometimes it is needed to show your interest. As I said we had no rights to balance something. We can only discuss. And when you start to prove your "truth" to others again and again and there is no message from a person responsible balance then it become pointless. Balance discussion forum exists for people's offers, doesn't it? And our offers matter only when Elite mode team pays attention to it, don't they? Otherwise I am not very pleased talking to "the locals".

That will be a smart decision to erase all the messages from

Asked Caeltos about his opinion about the matter via personal messages. He didn't reply/had no time to reply. Hence I see no point for us to discuss it. Everyone will stay with his opinion. Now I am heading to the thread about Sigil of the rift. Gonna leave there my opinion about that wargear being incredibly overpowered.

and to this message inclusive. Now when we know that it is worth discussing the matter those messages are nothing but garbage.

Then you continue to mention what you are going to do next.

If you don't see any connection between my points here and my message there then it is your problem.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

IMHO there are some reasons because Carapace Armor isn't that useful as it could be in retail.

1. It's a bit outdated. Sorry if I'm mistaked, but the other two LG armour had received some buffs/adjusts, which makes them more cost effective. Carapace Armor have AFAIK no changes received.

2. The inclusion of Artillery Spotters had made even more situacional Carapace Armor. Where this wargear only is useful against Supression teams or specific abilities (like The Farseer's Rune Armor ablility). Spotters, on the other have could work as antigarrison, antimelee (if properly timed), anti-ranged squad, anti suppression team and even anti slow and heavy tanks like the Land Raiders or the Baneblade.

Of course, the Artillery Spotters could bleed (not usual except if the enemy have jump squads) and cost pop and have upkeep. But IMHO, the benefit, the roles that they can fulfill and their usefulness though tiers makes them a better option than Carapace Armor.

Except a cost reduction, I have no idea how to make Carapace Armor more useful.

[Torpid]

Could make it grant extra energy regen on the Lord General to really synergise with non-spotter builds through moar abilities+medkits.

Hey, it's a beta.

[Sub_Zero]

Except a cost reduction, I have no idea how to make Carapace Armor more useful.

I got some thoughts.
1) Reducing the cooldown to 30 seconds (60 seconds atm)
2) The Lord general himself and his retinue don't get suppressed
3) Reducing the amount of energy to use the ability

[Forestradio]

1) Reducing the cooldown to 30 seconds (60 seconds atm)

But the effect itself lasts for 15 seconds.

So you would only have to wait 15 seconds in order to use it again.

15 seconds of suppression immunity that can be used every engagement

[Sub_Zero]

For 175 / 35. You forget to add that huge cost.

[Bahamut]

a supression team is 250/30...

[Sub_Zero]

FC's shield is 125 / 25
Sorcerer's warp rift is 100 / 20

What is your point?

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

those are completely different wargears they cannot be compared like that so plz stop.

[Sub_Zero]

Really? No. Give me a serious reason not to compare them. All these 3 wargears allow you to deal with suppression team play. Maybe they do that in different ways but still. FC's shield and LG's armor can be compared, that is for sure. Sigil of the rift stands out a bit from them but can be used as a setup team counter. And also this statement is true - Carapace Armor is the worst of them and the most expensive.

[Kvek]

Really? No. Give me a serious reason not to compare them. All these 3 wargears allow you to deal with suppression team play. Maybe they do that in different ways but still. FC's shield and LG's armor can be compared, that is for sure. Sigil of the rift stands out a bit from them but can be used as a setup team counter. And also this statement is true - Carapace Armor is the worst of them and the most expensive.

You know that these races have different units, globals, economy and abilities right? And storm shield can be used in other ways, sigil of the rift too.

[Sub_Zero]

OK, let's discard sigil of the rift. Let's compare FC's shield and LG's armor.

Both wargears allow your units to negate suppression. That is the attribute that allows us to compare them.

Let's have a look on T1 unit composition of space marines. Mostly heavy armored units that take less damage from piercing damage.
Let's have a look on T1 unit composition of imperial guard. Mostly light armored units that take full damage from piercing damage.

What does shield do? Gives suppression immunity and 50% ranged damage mitigation, speed reduction (35%). How does it help heavy armored units? That is just broken. Units that already take reduced damage from suppression teams and other ranged units become tankier and become immune to suppression. How much do you pay to get it? 125 / 25
What does armor do? Gives suppression immunity. How does it help light armored units? Just a bit. Units take full damage from piercing damage and become immune to suppression. How much do you pay to get it? 175 / 35

What do we have here? A cheaper wargear grants better benefits and serves its role in a more suitable army for rushing setup teams head on. Balanced, huh?

Another point why FC's shield is better. To negate short suppression effects (raptors, high powered shot, shoota boyz' suppression etc) you only need to spend 4 energy and tap the ability once and deactivate it as soon as suppression effects disappear.

Let's assume I have 2x tactical marines + shotgun scouts. My tactical marines will outshoot any ranged unit under effect of the ability and with the help of my FC they will beat any jump unit in melee combat. My tactical marines will kill any setup team very fast. Kraken bolts vs devastators and havocs, standart rounds vs other setup teams. How much resources do I need for this build? 1100 / 40.
Let's assume I have 2x guardsmen + 2x sentinels (as Tex suggested). These units will probably outshoot everything too and with some good management they will be able to deal with jump units. But you always have to repair your sentinels and if they get caught in a bad spot you will need a lot of time to repair them. That sets you back. Also bad management of the ability can set you back. FC's ability doesn't punish you for using it in a wrong time. How much resources do I need to spend? 1375 / 65

IG's build is more expensive and less reliable. SM's build is less expensive and more reliable.

I might have mentioned even more details and the story would have been way longer but I really don't feel like I need to spend so much time, just activate your brains and think about why this armor should not cost so much resources.

[Ace of Swords]

2 sents are perfectly able to deal with a setup teams without any need for further help, they also don't bleed, they are faster than tacts, a 2 gm 2 sent builld will always reach T2 way faster than any other race which HAS TO invest in power to get anything done.

Oh and there is also the fact that the stormshield drains energy while the LG ability doesn't, that means you aren't going to use battlecry and your tacts are not going to beat any jump troop in melee.

[Ace of Swords]

My tacts are going to beat jump troops in melee without battle cry. Kraken bolts vs raptors, assault marines, raveners are pretty bad, stormboyz are bad in t1. And what the fuck my scouts with shotguns are doing, what do you think?

I think we should 1v1 right now.

[Forestradio]

My tacts are going to beat jump troops in melee without battle cry. Kraken bolts vs raptors, assault marines, raveners are pretty bad, stormboyz are bad in t1. And what the fuck my scouts with shotguns are doing, what do you think?

The fact that you think tacs will beat raptors and ASM in melee in hilarious.

First off, they knock down/suppress the tacs. So they get free hits in on them. Second off, jump troops have 70 melee skill. This means that your tacs are going to be thrown all over the place and die even faster.

Raveners/stormboyz aren't as tough yes, but they do beastly power melee dps that means your tacs are dead anyway.

The only ranged unit that MIGHT be able to stand up to asm/raptors would be a mind blades strike squad (right riku???) but that's all about luck.

[Lulgrim]

OK, getting out of hand.