Dawn of War Codex

I know how you feel, the anti-Eldar bias is pretty tiresome too.

I'm genuinely curious though, do people really seriously think that Eldar are overpowered? I'm not trying to be biased, but I really don't see it. I guess they have a lot of tricks to use that can be annoying to play against, but still...
I don't know, maybe it's just me that's a horribly bad player (otherwise I suppose I'd win more often with a race with nothing but op units and wargear).

Sorry, off-topic. I'll shut up now

In hands of a good player, eldar is a fucking pain in the ass to play against and a pleasure to see the eldar play in the replays.

Eldar still have some things that could be considered "OP", but in general lines is more or less well balanced.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:In hands of a good player, eldar is a fucking pain in the ass to play against and a pleasure to see the eldar play in the replays.

Eldar still have some things that could be considered "OP", but in general lines is more or less well balanced.

I'm not aware of a race that in the hands of a good player isn't a pain in the ass to deal with. Of course eldar and IG are likely the most obnoxious races due to how they force to play way differently to how you would vs the others from a macro perspective. That doesn't make them good though, in fact it has nothing to do with it.

Lesten wrote:

Dark Riku wrote:Resulting in a cooldown of only 45secs.
35 secs after the previous time field is done ~~

35 seconds is a pretty long time in DoWII. And it's for two wargears (and the armour isn't cheap), which means no Psychic storm, Fortune, Mind War or Spirit Stone heal.

I'm pretty sure emperor's wrath has cooldown of somewhere between 6 and 7 minutes. It is also expensive t3 wargear and completely negated by retreat.

Time field has insane effect on major engagements as it can instantly turn half of the enemy army completely useless while you murder them. It hardcounters super units that are too slow to get out of it (particularly bb & lr) and it makes it very easy for eldar to take down tanks.
35secs means you can use it in every single engagement and never need to save it or have any second thoughts about using it, sometimes you can even use it twice in one engagement.

Personally I think Eldar are one of the most micro intensive races. If you can handle them though, it will be worth it.

Also do you remember the old times when Time Field slowed by 70%? Now that's OP.

Alright alright, I get it, timefield is definitely on the list!

if anything I feel that units in time field should take reduced damage or something. it really screws over super heavy tanks and terminators. it kind of becomes an undodgeable combo for super heavies when coupled with a nuke of any sort.

Just to keep this in perspective, you are talking about a tier 3 wargear combined with a nuke being OP. I know, it might sound like eldar bias, but its also sounding a lot like this isn't as big of an issue as you might think.

Updated the original post with new and old goodies!

Hi Tex,

Just an inquiry with regards to my own ignorance; how does armour of the apothecarium make the apo impossible to kill? While it does add 200hp and some health regen to the little guy, he still will generally have a health pool of under 1000 even at level 8(ish). Granted, he is a lot more mobile, but iirc his advanced healing only heals the models around him, no?

I can confirm that the nemesis vortex damages vehicles, but I am not sure about the snare.

ThongSong wrote:Hi Tex,

Just an inquiry with regards to my own ignorance; how does armour of the apothecarium make the apo impossible to kill? While it does add 200hp and some health regen to the little guy, he still will generally have a health pool of under 1000 even at level 8(ish). Granted, he is a lot more mobile, but iirc his advanced healing only heals the models around him, no?

The apo moves very quickly when he equips this armor so long as he isn't engaging in melee combat iirc. I play with Noisy almost every night and he is maining apo atm. I can tell you without a doubt that when an apo is moving that fast, and he has a bunch of tin can humies pew pewing you to death, your only viable option is to retreat. You just cannot focus down the apo quickly enough from the extra hp, and when you try and melee him, he runs faster than you lol!

Radio the Forest wrote:I can confirm that the nemesis vortex damages vehicles, but I am not sure about the snare.

I have not tested but I can't see why it shouldn't snare them. The only types the speed debuff ignores are buildings, which seems kinda redundant anyway.

Tex wrote:The apo moves very quickly when he equips this armor so long as he isn't engaging in melee combat iirc

Do you know if he slows down when using his sidearm? I would imagine so but i'd like to know.

hakon wrote:Do you know if he slows down when using his sidearm? I would imagine so but i'd like to know.

No, for the in combat mechanism is poorly implemented.

Yup, Asmon is correct.

The "in-combat" modifier thingy that this game provides simply means "in melee". And just to be very specific, "in-melee" means "currently attacking something with a melee weapon". It does not mean "firing a weapon" or "being attacked by melee weapons".

That's not true. I had to test some stuff when making the Scout Elite Training upgrade and shooting their bolters at shit triggered "in combat".

Actually yeah, I think all infiltration turns red when "in combat" right? Or is that just when detected?

I think it's red upon detection.

It's red in combat too.

Atlas wrote:Actually yeah, I think all infiltration turns red when "in combat" right? Or is that just when detected?

It's red upon detection, but various effects can trigger it other than being spotted by stealth detecting units (or being in close proximity to units in general). The "in combat" just triggers it because firing gives away your position.

Confirmed that Nemesis Vortex slows vehicles as well as damages them, which it definitely should not be doing.

It already does 80 explosive damage which does full damage to vehicles. It shouldn't snare them as well.

Lulgrim wrote:That's not true. I had to test some stuff when making the Scout Elite Training upgrade and shooting their bolters at shit triggered "in combat".

I would dare to argue with you on that one based upon what I have witnessed. Although to put up a good fight I would suppose I need to actually recreate or at least save these situations.

From what I can see though, scouts regen like mad after that upgrade, the apo can run like he is eldar even when his bolter is going off.

Radio the Forest wrote:Confirmed that Nemesis Vortex slows vehicles as well as damages them, which it definitely should not be doing.

It already does 80 explosive damage which does full damage to vehicles. It shouldn't snare them as well.

Well, on the other hand, maybe it should? It's an expensive wargear and it means the brocap doesn't have crazy canticle or his tanky regen armor. I'm just trying to be objective here for the moment... this obviously needs an extensive amount of testing. But considering that the BC has no AV capability, this might be a God-send for a lot of people who don't want to use interceptors.

Tex wrote:

ThongSong wrote:Hi Tex,

Just an inquiry with regards to my own ignorance; how does armour of the apothecarium make the apo impossible to kill? While it does add 200hp and some health regen to the little guy, he still will generally have a health pool of under 1000 even at level 8(ish). Granted, he is a lot more mobile, but iirc his advanced healing only heals the models around him, no?

The apo moves very quickly when he equips this armor so long as he isn't engaging in melee combat iirc. I play with Noisy almost every night and he is maining apo atm. I can tell you without a doubt that when an apo is moving that fast, and he has a bunch of tin can humies pew pewing you to death, your only viable option is to retreat. You just cannot focus down the apo quickly enough from the extra hp, and when you try and melee him, he runs faster than you lol!

I can confirme this is true, it doesn't result as in combat still they are melee, the same thing was happening when nids towers supposely had to increase speed only outside combat, but did it 100% of the time anyway.

Well, on the other hand, maybe it should? It's an expensive wargear and it means the brocap doesn't have crazy canticle or his tanky regen armor. I'm just trying to be objective here for the moment... this obviously needs an extensive amount of testing. But considering that the BC has no AV capability, this might be a God-send for a lot of people who don't want to use interceptors.

No it's shouldn't, it's a way better and ooc LTGB, any ranged unit cannot escape it and will most likely get 50-70% of their hp when it explodes.

Tex wrote:I would dare to argue with you on that one based upon what I have witnessed.

I made them a visual fx that switched on/off according to "in combat".

Tex wrote:Well, on the other hand, maybe it should? It's an expensive wargear and it means the brocap doesn't have crazy canticle or his tanky regen armor. I'm just trying to be objective here for the moment... this obviously needs an extensive amount of testing. But considering that the BC has no AV capability, this might be a God-send for a lot of people who don't want to use interceptors.

Then the GUO should do the 800? Explosive damage and damage vehicles when he dies.

Nemesis Vortex shouldn't snare or damage vehicles, IMHO.

Ok so just started my foray into electric armor and so far I'm not impressed with it. The damage seems fine but the 30% drop in movement speed makes it far too easy to dodge. With that said, seeing as how I'm forcing myself to buy it every game, I am finding new/modified ways to use it which is nice though.
For instance, going slugga heavy against chaos actually works out in 2 ways because you sluggas can easily win heretic confrontations with teleport + zzap support, and also, due to the extra HP, you can definitely use your mek as a line breaker to tie up CSM's or w/e. I mean, I always use my mek to tie up setup teams, but now he can do it for quite a lengthy period of time.
I also do find myself losing my mek more often when I buy this armor because I will almost never have energy to teleport to safety.

No it's shouldn't, it's a way better and ooc LTGB, any ranged unit cannot escape it and will most likely get 50-70% of their hp when it explodes.

I'd say any ranged unit *can* escape it, just hit retreat like you normally would a well placed ltgb. Other than that, any unit with speed > 5.7 will outrun it so that's most vehicles and eldar units, scouts and termagants and others with a speed buff. Not saying the wargear is perfectly fine but what you said just felt like an exaggeration.

The damage seems fine but the 30% drop in movement speed makes it far too easy to dodge

You're probably way ahead of me but it sounds to me like it could work as a pretty strong deterrent to melee squads looking to engage. Why try to chase them when you can keep them away and put some serious dakka dakka on them with your ranged blob.

Edit: I should say eldar units with fof, my bad.

eldar are 5.5 without fleet. fleet has complicating issues like requiring energy and it to be off cooldown but it is reasonably dependable.

Tex, do you consider suppression coming from shoota boyz as the greatest help to this wargear? What unit will escape from you if it is suppressed?