Patch 2.3 Balance changelog

[BaptismByLoli]

3 model with a total HP of 2000, Slow aura, Explosion upon death, Heal upon death and a Snaring Missile Launcher?

It just makes them tankier which = making them stay on the field longer to put pressure on not only vehicles but also melee units etc

Trust me, this is actually helping Chaos both in-game combat and economically cause now they have lesser bleed-ish

It's not always about the damage you know? If that's the case then why bother getting Spotters or Suppression teams? Their damage from afar is so weak.

[sebi.costa]

Im sure u saw how most of us will only reinforce plague marine to max 3 models. Since its pointless to pay for an extra soldier that doesnt add much. Plus they didnt mentioned any cost or reinforce cost changes, so less reinforcing = less bleed.
Plus the slow from the plague marines bolters are more important than their damage.(since its 10dps, really disappointing, its less that a havok crew member witch is 12dps)

[Wise Windu]

There's no slow on the PM bolters, only a damage over time. And the bolter damage is being increased to compensate for smaller squad size.

[ChrisNihilus]

3 models instead of 4, but the squad have the same stats as before.

That only means that a squad of Plague Marines receive less damage from AoE, because of the fewer models.

Anything else is the same.

[Ace of Swords]

You have 2k hp over 3 models instead of 4, that changes alot, not sure if the popcap is beign changed aswell.

[sebi.costa]

You have 2k hp over 3 models instead of 4, that changes alot, not sure if the popcap is beign changed aswell.

It has to, since every model has its own pop.

[Wise Windu]

You have 2k hp over 3 models instead of 4, that changes alot, not sure if the popcap is beign changed aswell.

It has to, since every model has its own pop.

Doesn't have to since the pop of each model can be changed as well.

It is though, from 16 to 15. It's in the OP.

[sebi.costa]

Doesn't have to since the pop of each model can be changed as well.

It is though, from 16 to 15. It's in the OP.

Naw its only 1 pop difference.

[Caeltos]

Doesn't have to since the pop of each model can be changed as well.

It is though, from 16 to 15. It's in the OP.

Naw its only 1 pop difference.

OP = Original Post

[sebi.costa]

OP = Original Post

I see what u did there
Im curious: the orcs had komandos in t3 as a late game ranged option, why were the flash gitz added?
And what role does the doom of malan'tai have in tyranid army?(i dont play nids and i never saw one doing anything in the games i played, so im curious)

[Caeltos]

Kommandos were only used for their abusive combo with Luv da Dakka + Burna Bomb. The rest of their stats were fairly awful for a late-game unit.

They were more shoe-horned into a role that fits into a potential capping role alongside with utilities on the side, with decent fighting capabilities.

Flash Gitz are more specialized and can deal with heavier infantries, and doesn't neccassarily circulate around having Nobs to do your work, since Nobs are more easy to control.

Doom of Malan'tai serves the role of anti-SHI/HI infantry unit, alongside with some misc. crowd control abilities that Tyranids genuially lack abit in the late-game.

[sebi.costa]

Doom of Malan'tai serves the role of anti-SHI/HI infantry unit, alongside with some misc. crowd control abilities that Tyranids genuially lack abit in the late-game.

Maybe IG could get a psyker to help them with anti-SHI/HI infantry unit, alongside with some misc. crowd control abilities that IG genuially lack abit in the late-game.

[Torpid]

Between guardsmen, kasrkin, lemans and ogryns IG have very little issues dealing with SHI. However the concern about AoE is very real. I think what a psyker should do for IG is provide AoE support and mobility buffs, ideally something to aid ogryns a bit, probably emphasising a more infantry based IG than a mechanised one.

[BaptismByLoli]

Somehow hearing a psyker unit for IG that can buff infantry for all three IG commanders, or can be also used alongside Commissar buffs is scaring me

[Kithrixx]

IG already has the Artillery Spotter as a subcommander. If anything, a psyker should be a commander.

[sebi.costa]

Somehow hearing a psyker unit for IG that can buff infantry for all three IG commanders, or can be also used alongside Commissar buffs is scaring me

I think the more aoe damage focused psycher would be best. Since all IG heroes(even inquisitor) can do a pretty good job at supporting infantry. Artillery Spotters are more a squad than anything. I mean come on there a lot of 3 model squads out there.
But if u want to go the commander route, make it a commander for GK instead, since they have only 1, and it fits the lore perfectly!

[ChrisNihilus]

But if u want to go the commander route, make it a commander for GK instead, since they have only 1, and it fits the lore perfectly!

Other commanders for GK are already in production as far as we know.

[sebi.costa]

Other commanders for GK are already in production as far as we know.

Well cant wait for patch 2.7 to try them out!

[sk4zi]

Somehow hearing a psyker unit for IG that can buff infantry for all three IG commanders, or can be also used alongside Commissar buffs is scaring me

I think the more aoe damage focused psycher would be best. Since all IG heroes(even inquisitor) can do a pretty good job at supporting infantry. Artillery Spotters are more a squad than anything. I mean come on there a lot of 3 model squads out there.
But if u want to go the commander route, make it a commander for GK instead, since they have only 1, and it fits the lore perfectly!

please no more ig ae op shit ...

they allready have to much of this. (compared to the other races)

[Cheah18]

Doom of Malan'tai serves the role of anti-SHI/HI infantry unit, alongside with some misc. crowd control abilities that Tyranids genuially lack abit in the late-game.

Maybe IG could get a psyker to help them with anti-SHI/HI infantry unit, alongside with some misc. crowd control abilities that IG genuially lack abit in the late-game.

Culexus Assassin please! Its perfect

[sebi.costa]

please no more ig ae op shit ...

they allready have to much of this. (compared to the other races)

How do they have to much?

[BaptismByLoli]

How do they have to much?

Trust me, IG are the most weakest against AoE but they also have quite the number of AoE effects. Not AoE attacks but effects such as Buffs or Debuffs etc

Culexus Assassin please! Its perfect

Why?
I swear if it's cause of #lorewouldfitandwillbecooletc ...

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[sebi.costa]

Trust me, IG are the most weakest against AoE but they also have quite the number of AoE effects. Not AoE attacks but effects such as Buffs or Debuffs etc

Ya but for the psycher i said damaging aoe not buffing. Plus i really think spotters should get infiltration as t2 upgrade. Their so easy to kill and their weapon range is that of a regular gm squad.
They die to easy to anything!

[Kvek]

How do they have to much?

Trust me, IG are the most weakest against AoE but they also have quite the number of AoE effects. Not AoE attacks but effects such as Buffs or Debuffs etc

Culexus Assassin please! Its perfect

Why?
I swear if it's cause of #lorewouldfitandwillbecooletc ...

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

I disagree here, go for two sents and aoe isn't a problem
two sents are the current meta now anyway, well they would be if they weren't so hard to mikro
anyway, skazi plays 3v3s, and IG are stupidly OP there

[Cheah18]

Culexus Assassin please! Its perfect

Why?
I swear if it's cause of #lorewouldfitandwillbecooletc ...

Nono, I wrote a big piece about this in another thread ill try find it. The Culexus abilities and wargear could be made to fit many many many roles and can offer really interesting dimensions

[BaptismByLoli]

You're missing the point here sebi. They have buffs. Freaking lotsa buffs that add increased damage, firing rate, defensive capabilities etc. Add more Damaging AoE and their gonna be a pain to deal with.

Oh, spotters die easily? Just answer this question then. Do you send Rangers or Sniper Scouts to lead the attack without the use of infiltration? If not, then why?

Kvek, double Sent is something I see once in a while. Not vs 90% of the time with IG. In fact, thus far I've seen more infantry based IG then a Mechanized one.

Last time I had to fight with or against a team mate using Double Sent was a few days back after but before that, I couldn't remember that ever happening before

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[sebi.costa]

You're missing the point here sebi. They have buffs. Freaking lotsa buffs that add increased damage, firing rate, defensive capabilities etc. Add more Damaging AoE and their gonna be a pain to deal with.

Oh, spotters die easily? Just answer this question then. Do you send Rangers or Sniper Scouts to lead the attack without the use of infiltration? If not, then why?

AoE = area of effect. a commander that gives aoe buffs, he just buffs. Now the troops that get the buff dont do area of effect damage because of it. They just do their damage depending on the buff(some are offensive so they do more damage or fire faster etc., that changes their actual damage potential. as for defensive buffs, well they dont effect the damage of a unit but because it can stay in the field longer it can do more damage)

BUT IN NO SHAPE OR FORM do those buffs make anything do area of effect damage! Aoe for ig is sentinel missiles, spotter shells, Catachan barrage, etc. For late game u only have the plasma lemanruss and Kaskrin Grenade Launchers.(were talking only about units so im leaving the heroes out, since all races have aoe abilitys on their heroes anyways) Thats why i suggested a aoe spell-caster(psycher).

"Add more Damaging AoE and their gonna be a pain to deal with." U were talking about adding aoe right after u talked about the buffs. "Add more Damaging AoE" they dont have much in t3 to begin with, i mean in 2.2, but maybe the changes their making to Kaskrin Grenade Launchers will be the kick they need. Well just have to wait and see!

As for the infiltration, i was thinking about it after i posted, and i mean those bastards have long vision and range(for using their abilitys) so making them infiltrated wont change anything, they will get revealed when they use abilitys or atk. And Discreet, what are u doing man, u cant compare spotters with rangers or scouts! The sniper gun from them deals great damage, their snipers for crying out loud. U use them for combat(and fk no, u dont lead the charge with them, but u do move them ahead to poke at the enemy!)
Since spotters guns deal the same dmg as gm guns(witch is low) and their only 3 models. U wil never ever use them in combat.(cuz they dont do much).

What i was getting at with the infiltration suggestion, is that i (personally) dont like the unit. I find it under-performing every-time i get it. Their to fragile(infiltration wont help them, because of their range and sight radius, it wont change anything if infiltrated, i explain why above).
Disruption shell is nice, but i can get that from Catachan Devils. Smoke shell is great, the only reason i bother to get them. Incendiary shell shares cool-down with the disruption one(for some reason, i mean im never gonna choose it over the disruption one). The unit looks great on paper, its just in game i never found them to be that good.(ill always prefer getting Catachan Devils instead, if i need disruption, or inquisitor servo skull war gear if i want manticore vision)
I only get spotters to deal with wraithguard, for that i love the unit.(hate playing in retail ig vs eldar(if they get wraithguard) without the spotters).

[Cheah18]

Culexus Assassin please! Its perfect

Why?
I swear if it's cause of #lorewouldfitandwillbecooletc ...

Here it is if you still actually care...

"...Culexus could be dps, anti-melee, crowd control (with snaring etc), debuffer, or lots of things, both direct and indirect. It would also make sense if he had an energy-absorption measure, like grey knights do a lot. Ideally I'd prefer it as an IG addition because right now that roster needs help imo, in a debuff capacity with anti-melee and area denial overlap, for instance with abilities that snare/suppress/stun/slow enemies. Perhaps he could upgrade into dealing more damage too ('Open Animus Speculum' or whatever). Or just be designed to have good dps to start with.

Also has Aegis suit (possible infiltration? damage resistance? lowers enemy dps?), force matrix (AoE damage, after using previous ability to absorb enemy energy and charge the matrix?) and Psyk-Out grenades. Possibilities are endless.

I think its cooler too. Just my two cents"

Of course you don't have to go with any of these ideas, I was just listing them in order to show how flexible the Culexus would allow us to be in design.

AND it would fit the lore and be cool etc!!!!

[Cheah18]

I only get spotters to deal with wraithguard, for that i love the unit.(hate playing in retail ig vs eldar(if they get wraithguard) without the spotters).

OMG Wraithguard vs IG has got to be the most imba match up in the game right? I mean the only real viable counter is Ogryns and even then you just get shut down by the double shuriken cannon they most likely got in tier 1. You can make something work with catas and commissar but that really restricts your options and you just get shut down so easily after that. I remember on Ashes of Typhon the enemy just rammed a shuri and Wraithguard in the corner of my natural VP and the effort and resources required to displace them was just ridiculous.

[sebi.costa]

@sebi My god... Sebi... When I was young I never understood why but now... Now you have enlightened me. Now I understand why some people contemplate Suicide

What? What does this have to do with anything i talked about? And why did u posted this on a balance forum page?

OMG Wraithguard vs IG has got to be the most imba match up in the game right? I mean the only real viable counter is Ogryns and even then you just get shut down by the double shuriken cannon they most likely got in tier 1. You can make something work with catas and commissar but that really restricts your options and you just get shut down so easily after that. I remember on Ashes of Typhon the enemy just rammed a shuri and Wraithguard in the corner of my natural VP and the effort and resources required to displace them was just ridiculous.

Stopped getting ogryns to deal with wraithguard because like u said they get stopped by shurikans. I use the spotters with 2 plasma gm and stormtroopers to deal with them. Smoke shell into focus fire the wraithguard. Nothing much eldar can do about than since ill hammer their commander to(if i find him in time before he immolates or farseer suppresses me etc).