GK dred inferno cannon

[Ace of Swords]

Considering the inferno cannon dred costs about 100 more power than the banewolf and is way slower and without abilities, shouldn't it atleast do the same damage if not sightly more?

[Aertes]

I still think like others who would like to see the Multi-Melta back for the GK Dreadnought, and this is precisely the weapon I'd replace it for.

With flamers for SS, Interceptors, Purgators, Terminators and Paladins I think it's more flamers than enough for a race.

[David-CZ]

Despite not being fond of melta dreads replacing the flamer with a multimelta does sound reasonable.

[Swift]

I support the melta upgrade, because out of the gate it was horrible, but as an upgrade it would be nice to see.

[Forestradio]

-Increase Inferno Cannon damage by 20 percent
-Remove "Maelstorm" from the GK melee dread and give it to the Inferno Cannon one
-Increase cost of Inferno Cannon from 80/20 to 90/25

There, GK melee dread nerfed. GK flamer dread buffed. Problum fix'd.

Dunno about giving the melta back, it was kinda rofl vs enemy walkers and it inflicted a shitton of bleed. With the buffs GK got to t2 it might be a bit over the top.

Oh, and give the plasma cannon a purpose in life.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

-Increase Inferno Cannon damage by 20 percent
-Remove "Maelstorm" from the GK melee dread and give it to the Inferno Cannon one
-Increase cost of Inferno Cannon from 80/20 to 90/25

There, GK melee dread nerfed. GK flamer dread buffed. Problum fix'd.

Dunno about giving the melta back, it was kinda rofl vs enemy walkers and it inflicted a shitton of bleed. With the buffs GK got to t2 it might be a bit over the top.

Oh, and give the plasma cannon a purpose in life.

Dafauq , No way. Upgrading Normal GK dread + Melee = 500/120 + 100+30 = 600/150 that doesn't have Dark-age tech in t3 . Its bloody expensive enough
Maelstrom suppose to be its Escape mechanism,its KB working so much better now. Plasma cannon has a decent range exchange for lesser AOE splash ,its just your aiming knowing when to hit..

[Swift]

-Increase Inferno Cannon damage by 20 percent
-Remove "Maelstorm" from the GK melee dread and give it to the Inferno Cannon one
-Increase cost of Inferno Cannon from 80/20 to 90/25

There, GK melee dread nerfed. GK flamer dread buffed. Problum fix'd.

Dunno about giving the melta back, it was kinda rofl vs enemy walkers and it inflicted a shitton of bleed. With the buffs GK got to t2 it might be a bit over the top.

Oh, and give the plasma cannon a purpose in life.

Yeah, either get rid of the flamer in place of melta, or do what Forest said. Either or, not both.

[Ar-Aamon]

GK melee dread is fine now so is the plasma dread. The inferno cannon could use some love though.

[Forestradio]

Maelstorm doing knockback is quite overpowered. Everything else is fine though.

Maelstrom suppose to be its Escape mechanism

It's a retreat or die ability to everything within radius 15 of the dread that isn't a nobz squad/terminator squad.

[Element]

Maelstorm doing knockback is quite overpowered. Everything else is fine though.


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HandSome SoddiNg wrote:Maelstrom suppose to be its Escape mechanism

It's a retreat or die ability to everything within radius 15 of the dread that isn't a nobz squad/terminator squad.

I agree with Forest here, that knockback really does make a huge difference, It was completely different when it just debuffed units only, now it is both a CC and debuff ability in one that can turn an engagement... , I was personally fine with it when it just debuffed , but now the melee dread has 2 forms of knockback, "Emperors fist", and "Maelstrom" that's just too much

[Atlas]

What about making the Inferno Cannon upgrade more of a suppression platform and less about the damage and AoE?

We can debate whether or not a 500/120/0 (GK Dread) unit should have a flame weapon with more dps than a 350/60/150 unit (Banewolf) all day, but I think the real competition for the Inferno Cannon is the other upgrades on the GK Dread.

As people have already mentioned, the Claws upgrade is in a really good place right now and the Plasma Cannon might also need some slight adjustment. I think the Inferno Cannon can find it's place in the army being closer to a dedicated suppression platform that also happens to have flamer AoE damage instead of simply being a damage upgrade. With a more powerful on the move suppression, perhaps it can be combined with other units in the army like Stormtrooper overcharges, Purifiers for a heavy T2 , and Terminator variants during late game for a more potent attack. basically, it would be a larger Purgation squad.

I'm aware that it already does courage damage, so if I were to make a more concrete suggestion it would be to increase the courage damage to the equivalent of the non-Havoc setup teams.

Those are just my random musings while reading the posts here though, I'm far from an expert on GK.

[Ar-Aamon]

It better does change an engagement for it's price...lol. And yeah you better don't attack with melee units, nothing new here. What if I told you the claw dread is meant to counter heavy melee squads. Adapt your play guys.

[Element]

Code: Select all

What about making the Inferno Cannon upgrade more of a suppression platform and less about the damage and AoE?

We can debate whether or not a 500/120/0 (GK Dread) unit should have a flame weapon with more dps than a 350/60/150 unit (Banewolf) all day, but I think the real competition for the Inferno Cannon is the other upgrades on the GK Dread.

As people have already mentioned, the Claws upgrade is in a really good place right now and the Plasma Cannon might also need some slight adjustment. I think the Inferno Cannon can find it's place in the army being closer to a dedicated suppression platform that also happens to have flamer AoE damage instead of simply being a damage upgrade. With a more powerful on the move suppression, perhaps it can be combined with other units in the army like Stormtrooper overcharges, Purifiers for a heavy T2 , and Terminator variants during late game for a more potent attack. basically, it would be a larger Purgation squad.

I think that would be a bit too much to have a walking suppression dread. It's already a huge change with melee resistance aura making it hard to take them down in melee, but with that upgrade even set-up teams in T2 that are dedicated AV will not be able to deal with that, because the flamer has pretty respectable range, and while tieing it up in combat is an option, you will be suppressed trying to get in melee with it because of that flamer, and then that unit will be caught out and focus fired to prevent that from happening. Tie that into the fact that interceptors(well not to well as of the momement), GL IST, VA, and BC with teleport pack, already counter set up teams pretty well I think there is too much potential for that flamer to really be abusive and game breaking

[Ar-Aamon]

Only claw dread has the melee resistance aura...

[Forestradio]

The claw dread overperforming isn't just an external balance issue, it's an internal one as well. As long as maelstorm is wtfpwning everything near the dread and opening it up to inspiration kills, who is going to buy the flamer variant?

To make the flamer variant desirable, there should some sort of adjustment to how the flamer dread works. Right now it's inefficient and unreliable. Moving maelstorm to it opens up its role as a dedicated AoE killer: knock shit down, flame it (hopefully suppressing it), combo with hellfury, etc

[Element]

Only claw dread has the melee resistance aura...

I totally forgot that, you are certainly correct, in which case it doesn't make it extremely hard to counter with melee, though I still do fear it's ability to counter set up teams with its means of the flamer being able to take an impact off the range it needs to close to counter it. I mean, I would say that it's worth a try to see how it works out, and if it does hold, that would make the flamer and cc arm very much worth taking over the plasma cannon, so there would need to be something to adress that, but that is a different topic in regards to this thread

[Ar-Aamon]

The claw dread overperforming isn't just an external balance issue, it's an internal one as well. As long as maelstorm is wtfpwning everything near the dread and opening it up to inspiration kills, who is going to buy the flamer variant?

To make the flamer variant desirable, there should some sort of adjustment to how the flamer dread works. Right now it's inefficient and unreliable. Moving maelstorm to it opens up its role as a dedicated AoE killer: knock shit down, flame it (hopefully suppressing it), combo with hellfury, etc

With the flamer melee units shouldn't attack him in the first place. Maelstorm is useless for the flamer variant and its perfect for the claw dread. No change needed here.

The problem with the flamer dread is that he only delivers suppression. Expensive suppression with limited range. Replace it with the Multimelta and everything is fine

[Cheah18]

TBH I do like the inferno cannon as an option but its not good enough atm. It should have much higher damage (but perhaps at quite small splash) and an ability which can affect the ground in a similar way to how the hellhound's did in DoW1

[Ace of Swords]

It needs higher damage without a doubt, but I would like to see an ability on it, since like other dreds, the ability would be a big incentive to purchase it, perhaps a medium-sized AoE ability that does the flamer's standard damage + instant supression, that way it would actually control blobs as it should.

[Element]

The claw dread overperforming isn't just an external balance issue, it's an internal one as well. As long as maelstorm is wtfpwning everything near the dread and opening it up to inspiration kills, who is going to buy the flamer variant?

To make the flamer variant desirable, there should some sort of adjustment to how the flamer dread works. Right now it's inefficient and unreliable. Moving maelstorm to it opens up its role as a dedicated AoE killer: knock shit down, flame it (hopefully suppressing it), combo with hellfury, etc

With the flamer melee units shouldn't attack him in the first place. Maelstorm is useless for the flamer variant and its perfect for the claw dread. No change needed here.

The problem with the flamer dread is that he only delivers suppression. Expensive suppression with limited range. Replace it with the Multimelta and everything is fine

Maelstrom wouldn't be useless on flamer dread, it would knockback units trying to tie it up in melee to stop it from suppressing units, this I think would be over the top however I must say, especially if everyone comes to the conclusion of wanting to make the dreads flamer suppress instantly; a dread that can suppress AV infantry units from ranged and knockback them back and knockback units trying to tie it up, just a bit too much for me imo. Like I said in a previous post, I agree with people wanting to try the instant suppression and up the damage but I do think maelstrom as well would prove to be a bit too hard to much to handle Forest.

Also to note, if there is anything to replace for the MM it would be the plasma cannon(people seem content with the GL upgrade) because that upgrade does not serve to benefit the role of this unit, it's not supposed to be stationary acting like a plasma cannon set up team, it should be on the move and more mobile utilizing it's close combat prowess alongside its ranged upgrade choice if one was bought, either way it will be in close combat/ strongly supporting from the front lines, not sitting in the back trying to taking long ranged innacurate plasma cannon shots at units, very inefficient way to utilize a dread imo, because strikes squads and stormtroopers are supposed to be the main support units.

[Swift]

Well then perhaps the flamer aoe instant suppression is a good idea, it really needs something that makes people want to be friends with it. Up the damage too, the thing is pitiful. This or maelstrom would be good, because that is more blob control whereas maelstrom is an escape mechanism. An aoe instant suppression is probably a better idea however since GK seem to lack area control, of course they do have suppression, they do have aoe but no sources of aoe control. I don't even play GK but I think this is weakness too dire to be ignored.

[Forestradio]

With the flamer melee units shouldn't attack him in the first place.

I disagree. Heavy melee commanders or elite t3 squads can easily engage a flamer dread. Whereas a melee dread can kback them twice, stun them, slow them, it's just too much. The melee dread does too much in destroying and debuffing everything around it. It also does inspiration on melee kill (unlike other variants) and an inspired Brother Captain is pretty darn scary with a t2 weapon.

perhaps a medium-sized AoE ability that does the flamer's standard damage + instant supression, that way it would actually control blobs as it should.

Dunno about instant suppression, perhaps something like the farseer's psychic storm that can be avoided more easily with suppression resistance such as boss pole and synapse.

Alternatively it could be a single target damage ability that coats a single enemy model in fire, dealing DoT while the dread channels it as well as debuffing in some way like reducing speed and/or damage.

they do have aoe but no sources of aoe control.

Sanctuary, Holocaust, Demolishing Strike, Maelstorm, IST nade barrage........

I don't use IST GLs very much but players such as Fear (the best GK player atm) do and they do quite well with them.

[Ace of Swords]

The main problem of the inferno cannon is that it doesn't 1 shot units nor threathens vehicles like the melta, while having similar if not lower range, considering it doesn't have melee resistence and it's supposed to be a blob counter it should be able to pay off for the risk of getting that close, it also shouldn't last too long, just enough for support to arrive and for it's flamer damage to roll in.

[Element]

The main problem of the inferno cannon is that it doesn't 1 shot units nor threathens vehicles like the melta, while having similar if not lower range, considering it doesn't have melee resistence and it's supposed to be a blob counter it should be able to pay off for the risk of getting that close, it also shouldn't last too long, just enough for support to arrive and for it's flamer damage to roll in.

Yes, and that is what I like about the flamer, if we can implement it to its full potential I can absolutely see situations where I'd rather be suppressing huge blobs of guardsman, nids, or orks with that flamer instead of getting even a melee dread, because with support that might even be safer then going up in melee where you know your opponent is using a lascannon team or some sort of Long ranged A.V. , at least then you could more safely attack units from further ranged away and still make an impact with the dread.

[appiah4]

The Inferno Cannon is indeed terrible; if Multi-Melta is not an option I will offer an Autocannon upgrade for the GK dread, with Psybolt ammunition. I think it's fluffy enough.

[Aertes]

The Inferno Cannon is indeed terrible; if Multi-Melta is not an option I will offer an Autocannon upgrade for the GK dread, with Psybolt ammunition. I think it's fluffy enough.

I couldn't agree more with every single word of that.

[Ven]

It needs higher damage without a doubt, but I would like to see an ability on it, since like other dreds, the ability would be a big incentive to purchase it, perhaps a medium-sized AoE ability that does the flamer's standard damage + instant supression, that way it would actually control blobs as it should.

I think ace pretty much hit the nail on the head here, it needs some kind of ability similar to frenzied barrage on the tzeetch dread or something like Purged by fire! on the standard purgation, the inferno cannons problem is not only its lack of damage, but its lack of usability and utility, its not even an option for viable power bashing as the melee dread gets a wrist mounted flamer to do that.

i can think of a few ways to make it a bit more viable

personally i think that an ability should be added to the inferno cannon as mentioned before and the wrist mounter flamer removed on the melee dread if possible. perhaps remove the power cost or maybe even make it unique in that you can upgrade to something else after getting it so you're not stuck with it, so for example get the inferno cannon early on for power bashing and pressuring infantry, and once you see ranged AV switch to the plasma cannon or something so that you can hang back, make it so that its a bit more adaptive.

as for the other variants:

the melee variant is pretty much in a good spot right now, GK being a melee oriented race i think its needed that way, i think the only way that it should be changed if anything is change maelstrom to a suppression rather than a knockabout perhaps.

the plasma cannon is also in a good spot, artillery that doesnt need to set up on a tanky walker, basically a fat zoanthrope but without the vehicle snare and doing plasma cannon damage instead of psychic_pvp

twin linked heavy bolter is okay i guess, i would like to see something like an ability for that aswell, perhaps knockback on a single model like the apos full auto, it doesnt quite have the AV potential as the chaos default dread so i think an ability like that could work, not sure though.

EDIT: i asked cealtos himself about this on one of his streams today when he was streaming a 2.3.1 peview and he did a agree that it was underwhelming, but that in 2.3.1 it can supress quite well and he also said that he has considered giving it an ability, he just wants to bring the upgrade up to standard thorough the patches and THEN considering giving it an ability if needed, so i guess that's that answered.