Sacred Standard in T2.

[Zato]

So this thing is being considered to being moved in to T2 correct? As a FC I love the idea but I know there is going to be a lot of complaining behind it. Is there going to be any real changes behind it if its moved to T2? I was thinking that maybe its damage buff was going to be decreased to 15% for T2 and then T3 automatically unlocks it back to its original base mode of 25%.

[Ace of Swords]

It would make sense, but tbh I don't see the need or reason of it to be T2 to begin with.

[Tex]

Putting it in T2 would actually be super lame.

FTE + Sacred standard + battle cry + smite ---> in T2 = dead almost anything infantry????

FTE + Sacred standard + battle cry + pdev ---> in T2 = dead almost anything?????

FTE + Sacred standard + battle cry + sternguard hellfire rounds ----> in T2 = WTFPWNHEROFACES????

The point being that battle cry and FTE can already add a shitload of damage to things that normally do moderate or at least specialized damage. Adding another 25% to that would be absurd and only encourage me to further deepen my skill set with FC for tournament play.

[Cheekie Monkie]

To be honest I want to see this in action, abuse it, be abused by it, cry about it, then see it balanced again.

But that's just me.

[Helios]

Stealth nerf to Teleporter. By giving FC's Standard in T2 they may be more inclined to get that thus making Teleport/Thunder combo (which is completely op nonsense) not the only option.

[Atlas]

Stealth nerf to Teleporter. By giving FC's Standard in T2 they may be more inclined to get that thus making Teleport/Thunder combo (which is completely op nonsense) not the only option.

I get the feeling it was something along the lines of this as well. But on the other hand, changes to Flesh over Steel are also only in the vague state right now, so we'll see.

[Torpid]

So it's a nerf to one wargear by giving the hero an even better wargear... Hmm... Sometimes I worry about Caeltos being the lead-designer of this mod. Sometimes I am relieved that he is.

[Caeltos]

Yes, Sacred Standard being in T2 is a indirect-nerf towards Teleport/Power Fist in the sense that you ultimately drop the combination of the two for the sake of speciliazing the Force Commander in a more-supportive role rather than an initiatior/fk u all vehicle type of option playstyle.

Unless he makes multi-investments in T2, which is a hefty cost giving that Teleporter 100/40 + 150/35 (current listed pricing for Sacred Standard) which will allow him to do alot of flexible stuff, but wouldn't be the most likely scenarios, since players prefer to go with one-build of each wargear thing to restrain the eco dumps and prioitize on other misc. stuff.

If someone decides to make it a thing, and does it every game for 10 games, and the opposition keeps fielding stuff that gets negated by alot of supportive-oriented play (Lack of crowd-control, or hero peel), and then he decides for crowd-control / vehicle rush. That would put the Force Commander in more of a difficult. Will he commit to Fist first, or does he get upgrades.

I'll always recon that Sacred Standard is NOT a prio purchase when you get into T2, espicially if you're behind. You need to get the misc. unit fielded / prio purchases to counter-units. Then suppliment them furthermore. It'll get a test-run in the develop-build to see how it plays out. Can always figure the numbers abit.

[Torpid]

No no no no no. You aren't nerfing the power fist/teleporter combo by adding an alternative build. You're making it just as kick-ass in the scenarios where it kicks ass and you're making the FC even better in the scenarios where it doesn't. That's not a nerf by any stretch of the imagination.

[Caeltos]

No no no no no. You aren't nerfing the power fist/teleporter combo by adding an alternative build. You're making it just as kick-ass in the scenarios where it kicks ass and you're making the FC even better in the scenarios where it doesn't. That's not a nerf by any stretch of the imagination.

Are you forgetting that the Flesh over Steel is not going to act in the same manner as it is now in the next update? And you're completely forgetting the universal changes on how it effects the gameplay, and what builds are more likely to going to surface, and why they will.

Sorry, but ALOT of games do adaptive changes just like this. I'm not sure I can convience you to think otherwise.
Hell, Lord General gets an AoE 30% damage reduction + immune to knockback/knockdown in T1. That's a global Fortune, why isnt' anyone shitting their pants about that?

[Bahamut]

It's not like the SM roster is filled with very hard hitting units anyway. I mean, it's not a nid army buffed by a 25% damage aura from the RA or UYC beefing one the killiest squads in the game by 35%

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Well Flag banner in T2 makes SM job at demolishing Vehicles significantly easier, tha'ts like FTE + BC + Flagbanner on a Tac squad doing insane damage with 1 rocket to a BC . It makes your opponent think twice before getting a Walker/transport out early ,still Caeltos right on making the FC choose between wargears

[Torpid]

Are you forgetting that the Flesh over Steel is not going to act in the same manner as it is now in the next update? And you're completely forgetting the universal changes on how it effects the gameplay, and what builds are more likely to going to surface, and why they will.

Yes, yes I am. Well, a change in how functions could buff it or nerf it, I don't know because I don't know how it is going to be changed. Regardless of that though, the moving of a powerful T3 wargear to T2 does not in anyway whatsoever, in and of itself, nerf any T2 wargear.

Sorry, but ALOT of games do adaptive changes just like this.

What does that have to do with anything?

Hell, Lord General gets an AoE 30% damage reduction + immune to knockback/knockdown in T1. That's a global Fortune, why isn't' anyone shitting their pants about that?

The lord general is fine with that because that's all he does -> buff stuff, he can't be flung forward to kill a tank in 3hits like a warboss and unlike an FC he can't teleport into an enemy army and send them all flying with a thunderhammer and unlike a chaos lord he's nowhere near as helpful in combat nor does he do as much damage. Also IG a race that you don't beat with raw damage anyway because they do too much damage themselves, while simultaneously not bleeding, so the damage resistance isn't too much of a big deal, it's more the fact that they become resistant to knockback as artillery (and so knockback) is often something that can be effective at dealing with IG.

[Tex]

I think the silver lining here is that the force commander WAS one of the worst heros in regards to competitive play...

[Dalakh]

Sorry, but ALOT of games do adaptive changes just like this. I'm not sure I can convience you to think otherwise.
Hell, Lord General gets an AoE 30% damage reduction + immune to knockback/knockdown in T1. That's a global Fortune, why isnt' anyone shitting their pants about that?

Well here it is, I'm shitting my pants.

In all seriousness, this upgrade is a T2 one, which makes it more acceptable in a way, since you can start getting nasty AoE. That being said if you want to change We are the Hammer ! and considering this other ability Please consider rebalancing the Armor of Fortune in some way (wargear's cost, energy cost, cooldown, the ability itself, it's duration, anything...).

[Nurland]

I shat my pants about the Fracku Jacketto a couple days ago...

[BaptismByLoli]

Fracku Jacketto

?

[Dalakh]

Fracku Jacketto

?

aka Flack Jacket

[Arbit]

I think the silver lining here is that the force commander WAS one of the worst heros in regards to competitive play...

Isn't the problem that he's lackluster in T1? Wasn't it the nerf to alacrity that knocked him down a couple pegs on the competitiveness scale? Maybe that should get a look rather than making his T2 ridiculously good.

It's not like the SM roster is filled with very hard hitting units anyway. I mean, it's not a nid army buffed by a 25% damage aura from the RA or UYC beefing one the killiest squads in the game by 35%

Sternguard, vengeance devs, now he can roll into T3 with the banner already equipped and ready to use with LC terminators, and the banner is always on, even when he's dead. Plus the buffs he gives from battlecry. And the stuff tex mentioned? That all sounds pretty nasty to me.

It was always good when it was in T3, but moving it from T3 to T2 is going to make it a "build around me" type of wargear. Non-HI jump squads and melee, for instance, are going to get blown away by shotgun scouts with this guy standing around.

[saltychipmunk]

@ cael's comment about the lg's 30% damage reduction aoe gear-

maybe because the lord general is already stupidly op in other areas , like his ability to totally shit on sm and gk by tying up the tac / SS squad with his pay to get hp melee cheese or his sniper rifle , or his melta

trust me of all the cheesy ass things a lord general can do , having the best version of fortune in the game is like second banana on the 80th truck full of bananas

[BaptismByLoli]

I wouldn't call the LG OP. Rather that he's the type of guy that you really need to focus down as quickly as possible or get punished for not doing so since he's main role is to literally support for his army and nothing else.

And most of his wargear compliment this playstyle hence why his very good at what he does.

[Dark Riku]

To go with this train of thought you guys are having here. I'm wondering what else the apo does then but heal?
He is not tanky, doesn't deal al lot of damage, ..., doesn't shine anywhere else, yet his healing isn't great either.
So what gives here then? °_O

@Banner.
It kind of needs a change. It doesn't see much play at all bar from team games and even there it's rather rare.
Not sure this is the way to go either, but we can test it out. Doesn't seem to bad considering what the FC's role normally is.
Awaiting the PF change and hopefully other SM changes too. (Missing the old drop pod a lot.)

[Bahamut]

(Missing the old drop pod a lot.)

Yeah, the drop pod with the tac squad attached seems just a bad call in. I'd be nice if it went back to just reinforcing

[Forestradio]

To go with this train of thought you guys are having here. I'm wondering what else the apo does then but heal?
He is not tanky, doesn't deal al lot of damage, ..., doesn't shine anywhere else, yet his healing isn't great either.
So what gives here then? °_O

I agree with this. Speaking from purely an internal balance perspective (FC vs apo vs TM) as to not derail the thread I feel that the apo is just lacking at the moment in comparison to the other two SM heroes, with the TM being the strongest, FC pushed up by FoS buff and now the standard buff.

What apo can he do? Well heal, maybe knockback hero with bolter or tie up with sanguine chainsword or area denial with purification vials, but it boils down to him being a healing commander, that’s his role and imo he doesn’t stack up with the utility and multiple roles the other two sm commanders can fulfill with their wargear/globals.

I’d buff two things:

*increase apo starting hp by 50 (from 600 to 650)
What would this do? Well first off it adds scaling to the apo in that more starting hp=more hp buff per level (5% per level I believe) and that adds to his field presence as the match goes on. Second off, it makes a “frontline” apo more desirable, rather than the same old bolter/purity/IME apo game after game. Sanguine chainsword and the axe both have their uses, but the bolter seems to be the most popular of his weapons and there’s a severe lack of melee apos around.

*reduce cooldown of apo “Heal” by 5 seconds (from 30 s to 25 s)
More healing=more better. Pretty self-explanatory, this has an impact on opening engagements with regards to timing your heals on tacs (right now, you’ll have energy for a second heal when heal still has 10 more seconds to recharge). It also makes combat stims a more desirable purchase because now with a lower default cooldown on heal the Armor of Purity you won’t need that armor so much anymore (obviously it will still be useful, just less mandatory to purchase).