A macro-strategy to try vs HT/RA (but not LA)
Posted: Fri 12 Sep, 2014 3:41 am
Imagine 2 termagants... sitting in cover with genestealers/warriors and horms behind them, alongside a crushing claw hive tyrant and a venom brood. In this scenario there is no way the ASM should jump in to tie up the termagants, however if the SM player's FC runs straight forward, or his scouts do, they will be easily focus fired by the ranged synapse termagants. The SM player isn't foolish, she saw the genestealer purchase over zoans, as well as the pre-emptive venom purchase rather than a TG/zoan, and so she doesn't want a dreadnought, especially with the CC HT around. Instead then she opts for a librarian and 2 devastators. She doesn't want to push against the tyranid force with her devastators however, as if she leaves one devastator team unguarded by the other then flanking genestealers could wipe them easily with their ability.
If she pushes both up simultaneously or simply moves the back one up while keeping the front one in play then the HT will just tie them up with his invulnerability activated while the genestealers charge into the other one, warriors/venoms knock back shotgun scouts constantly, terms FF and snare the FC and horms devour the tacs. Instead then, the SM player bides her time, she gets sternguard so that termagants and their cover is relatively useless vs her hellfire rounds and also throws in a few smites every so often at the termagants. The HT realises that she is bleeding models over time while being unable to attack the SM force successfully from any angle. So she drops a brood nest while she waits for a zoanthrope to purchase. The SM player counters the brood nest with a plasma devastator, which also helps vs the termagants in cover and means the HT player is one against made to push the offence. The zoanthrope gets out and begins heckling the devastators from outside of the FOW. The SM player uses VoT to pull his forward devastators back, to where his backwards devs were, and he moves his backwards devs to the front, but not anywhere near where the zoanthrope was previously attacking ground. She then purchases infiltration on one shotgun-scout squad which she uses to scout out the zoanthrope which can then be hit by plasma devastators (veil of time may be used on them), she also purchases the teleporter pack on the force commander which she uses in tandem with For The Emperor and veil of time to snipe the zoanthrope in retreat after the P-devs knocks it over (apo players can use stimmed-VoT-ASM for this role, TM players shouldn't get ASM vs nids and should generally rely on snipers to kill zoans).
Inevitably the zoanthrope dies, however in one of the skirmishes genestealers got lucky and flanked a dev and managed to kill it before the SM player could react. Poor play on the SM player's behalf as she could have just used force wall, the assault marine jump, gate of infinity or one of his two shotgun blasts, but this player isn't perfect. Regardless, the SM player repurchases her second dev as she needs them (with vengeance rounds) to prevent the bonded exoskeleton HT from walking through her suppression lines. The tyranid continues to buy zoanthropes as she knows that without them she will concede all map control since it will not be possible to force off the SM devastators. The SM however manages to tech to T3 because she hasn't been bleeding all game whereas the tyranid has lost constant termagants and zoanthropes while being behind on map control since shotgun scouts with sarge > hormagaunts.
At this point the plasma devastator may well be suicided as it is no longer needed and some models may be lost on the scouts as they are mainly needed for their knockback rather than raw piercing dps, instead ranged terminators are dropped in and given an assault cannon and the FC is upgraded to a terminator-variant and given a flamethrower, in that order. Plasma devs aren't needed anymore because the SM ranged blob can just walk up out of cover into the termagants and roast them, the genes can't do anything to CI as they will be suppressed and bounced around by the ASM/libby/scouts. The VoT termy FC now is even better at killing zoans due to his power fist and the extra hp makes him far more difficult for the termagants to handle. The tyranid is hugely behind in VPs by now but tries to spam fexes, however her gaunts are useless at this point, being killed instantly by the FC/termies. The back devastor gets a lascannon, which alongside the melta bomb from the ASM and VoT from the libby makes the fex quite useless. While 100% snared it is hit by the ranged terminators and the FC in melee while the scouts/asm/libby deal with the zoan. There's also vengeance round sterns in there somewhere. Nothing short of two thornbacks will defeat that composition, but the nid can't get the req for that in time and loses due to running out of VPs.
I have played that exact game so many times before it is uncountable. I think upon analysing it over and over that smite is hugely influential here. That sweet spot in which I have sterns/smite and they lack a zoan earns me about 150 VPs. Smite contributes maybe 80 of those by bleeding those terms that bit faster. It's pretty influential.
The tyranid has quite has quite a rough time here assuming they aren't the LA as they just can't push vs it. They can't get a TG as it is countered instantly by the melta/VoT las-devs. Fast zoans are pointless as it means there's nothing strong enough to hold back the combined melee force of the libby/TH FC/ASM supported by double shotgun scouts and with a VoT ASM/FC around it's always going to mean you will find that zoan is often in retreat meaning you lose map control (since devs will prevent you capping anything until your zoan is back out). The best bet really is to build capilary towers at flanks and spam rippers to tie up the devs, but even then each SM hero can do something about it - the FC can use BC with his TH to insta-gib rippers, the apo can throw a purification vial in their path and simply heal the dev and the techmarine does a different build to this entirely and ends up having a dreadnought which can instantly kill the rippers with fist of the emperor + his flamer/splash. The LA though has it much easier than the RA/HT as she can get way closer to the devs than the RA/HT ever can do courtesy of her infiltration, this means she can infiltrate close to them from a flank, leap onto the back devs, flesh hook the front devs and A-move her entire army forward. With the two devastators immediately dealt with with no possible counter-play from the SM that's a lost-engagement vs a TG/genes, or even a zoan/gene/venom play. For some reason if the LA can't pull that off she can just drop spore mines on one of the devs anyway.
Has anybody else ever tried this particular macro vs a HT/RA? How did it turn out? If you haven't tried it, what would do you think about it purely from reading it?
If she pushes both up simultaneously or simply moves the back one up while keeping the front one in play then the HT will just tie them up with his invulnerability activated while the genestealers charge into the other one, warriors/venoms knock back shotgun scouts constantly, terms FF and snare the FC and horms devour the tacs. Instead then, the SM player bides her time, she gets sternguard so that termagants and their cover is relatively useless vs her hellfire rounds and also throws in a few smites every so often at the termagants. The HT realises that she is bleeding models over time while being unable to attack the SM force successfully from any angle. So she drops a brood nest while she waits for a zoanthrope to purchase. The SM player counters the brood nest with a plasma devastator, which also helps vs the termagants in cover and means the HT player is one against made to push the offence. The zoanthrope gets out and begins heckling the devastators from outside of the FOW. The SM player uses VoT to pull his forward devastators back, to where his backwards devs were, and he moves his backwards devs to the front, but not anywhere near where the zoanthrope was previously attacking ground. She then purchases infiltration on one shotgun-scout squad which she uses to scout out the zoanthrope which can then be hit by plasma devastators (veil of time may be used on them), she also purchases the teleporter pack on the force commander which she uses in tandem with For The Emperor and veil of time to snipe the zoanthrope in retreat after the P-devs knocks it over (apo players can use stimmed-VoT-ASM for this role, TM players shouldn't get ASM vs nids and should generally rely on snipers to kill zoans).
Inevitably the zoanthrope dies, however in one of the skirmishes genestealers got lucky and flanked a dev and managed to kill it before the SM player could react. Poor play on the SM player's behalf as she could have just used force wall, the assault marine jump, gate of infinity or one of his two shotgun blasts, but this player isn't perfect. Regardless, the SM player repurchases her second dev as she needs them (with vengeance rounds) to prevent the bonded exoskeleton HT from walking through her suppression lines. The tyranid continues to buy zoanthropes as she knows that without them she will concede all map control since it will not be possible to force off the SM devastators. The SM however manages to tech to T3 because she hasn't been bleeding all game whereas the tyranid has lost constant termagants and zoanthropes while being behind on map control since shotgun scouts with sarge > hormagaunts.
At this point the plasma devastator may well be suicided as it is no longer needed and some models may be lost on the scouts as they are mainly needed for their knockback rather than raw piercing dps, instead ranged terminators are dropped in and given an assault cannon and the FC is upgraded to a terminator-variant and given a flamethrower, in that order. Plasma devs aren't needed anymore because the SM ranged blob can just walk up out of cover into the termagants and roast them, the genes can't do anything to CI as they will be suppressed and bounced around by the ASM/libby/scouts. The VoT termy FC now is even better at killing zoans due to his power fist and the extra hp makes him far more difficult for the termagants to handle. The tyranid is hugely behind in VPs by now but tries to spam fexes, however her gaunts are useless at this point, being killed instantly by the FC/termies. The back devastor gets a lascannon, which alongside the melta bomb from the ASM and VoT from the libby makes the fex quite useless. While 100% snared it is hit by the ranged terminators and the FC in melee while the scouts/asm/libby deal with the zoan. There's also vengeance round sterns in there somewhere. Nothing short of two thornbacks will defeat that composition, but the nid can't get the req for that in time and loses due to running out of VPs.
I have played that exact game so many times before it is uncountable. I think upon analysing it over and over that smite is hugely influential here. That sweet spot in which I have sterns/smite and they lack a zoan earns me about 150 VPs. Smite contributes maybe 80 of those by bleeding those terms that bit faster. It's pretty influential.
The tyranid has quite has quite a rough time here assuming they aren't the LA as they just can't push vs it. They can't get a TG as it is countered instantly by the melta/VoT las-devs. Fast zoans are pointless as it means there's nothing strong enough to hold back the combined melee force of the libby/TH FC/ASM supported by double shotgun scouts and with a VoT ASM/FC around it's always going to mean you will find that zoan is often in retreat meaning you lose map control (since devs will prevent you capping anything until your zoan is back out). The best bet really is to build capilary towers at flanks and spam rippers to tie up the devs, but even then each SM hero can do something about it - the FC can use BC with his TH to insta-gib rippers, the apo can throw a purification vial in their path and simply heal the dev and the techmarine does a different build to this entirely and ends up having a dreadnought which can instantly kill the rippers with fist of the emperor + his flamer/splash. The LA though has it much easier than the RA/HT as she can get way closer to the devs than the RA/HT ever can do courtesy of her infiltration, this means she can infiltrate close to them from a flank, leap onto the back devs, flesh hook the front devs and A-move her entire army forward. With the two devastators immediately dealt with with no possible counter-play from the SM that's a lost-engagement vs a TG/genes, or even a zoan/gene/venom play. For some reason if the LA can't pull that off she can just drop spore mines on one of the devs anyway.
Has anybody else ever tried this particular macro vs a HT/RA? How did it turn out? If you haven't tried it, what would do you think about it purely from reading it?
...I care...