Dawn of War Codex

This is just a thought, but I am perplexed why blood sacrifice for the chaos lord summons temporal blood-letters and not a permanent squad.

Most other races/commamders have unit call-ins that allow for a permanent squad. i.e warpspiders, commando, raveners, storm troopers, warriors, chosen Plague marines and the new drop pod marines for SM.

It's not like the temporal blood letters do extra damage or something.

Would it not be better to make them a permanent option for the chaos lord. It will encourage more use for the global, and allow players to explore more bloodletter play when using C.L which from my personal experience I think C.L supports bloodletters well.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Much appreciated.

It Sacrifice a friendly infantry unit to spawn a squad of Bloodletters. These daemons will remain so long as they have Energy, which drains over time. Cooldown 60 seconds. Strangly the codex states its T1 global . You can't really compare this global to other call-ins ,if i vaguely remember,shd be T2.
175 Red summon for a Free Bloodletter squad spawn from a Sacrificial model? Lol ,its bloody cheap . Unless revamping the global to give CL a free BL squad in t2 seems abit nuts,i prefer its original state .

Blood Sacrifice is used mainly Conjunction with Heretics to win engagements ,its even not a Global summon ability at all so yea. Same applies to Daemonic summoning, they spit out BL constantly for a short duration for area denial,etc.

I think this is getting a red reduction and tbh in retail was great as u could use them to kill tanks and dreads etc due to damage type. So i agree u see it less but still a pretty useful global for certain engagements using it on tics is still a great trade off.

I like to use Blood Sacrifice when I'm down to 2 or 3 tics in an engagement. They really wreck stuff, especially (S)HI.

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Superhooper01 wrote:I think this is getting a red reduction and tbh in retail was great as u could use them to kill tanks and dreads etc due to damage type. So i agree u see it less but still a pretty useful global for certain engagements using it on tics is still a great trade off.

Ironic how BL use to be OP at damaging Transport's rear armor & surrounding walkers with PM support

You've already asked this before and was answered by certain other people.

Nurland wrote:Well imo blood sacrifice is a great way to boost your effectiveness in single engaments without crippling your economy by having a squad you might not want. Much like abilities like UYC, ToN etc.

The great thing about summoned BL is that you can just throw them away to tie/stuff or wipe squads since they will die anyway.

Sub_Zero wrote:If you want this global ability to summon permament bloodletters then its red cost has to be higher and you have to add requisition and power. I hope you implied these additions and changes? But I like this ability as it is. In massive engagements sometimes it will be hard to spot this dark ritual and bloodletters do some insane damage so it can lead to easy kills. He thinks that he deals with simple heretics but Khorne does have a trick up his sleeve.

If you want it to summon permanent letters the recourse cost has to be reviewed. It's a great ability like it is now.
Do we really want another generic global spawn? It will only take away from the uniqueness of the CL.

I'm pretty sure making the BLs permanent (and therefore making the global cost resources) would make it be used far less often than it already is.

I used it today and it drained the champ on the squad causing the tics to all die causing the squad to be wiped...my fault for being a noob and clicking on the aspiring champ but still pretty shit animation

Discreet wrote:I like to use Blood Sacrifice when I'm down to 2 or 3 tics in an engagement. They really wreck stuff, especially (S)HI.

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The most you would get with that is a retreat. The problem is that once the engagement is done, you have lost resources and RED to force a retreat and if you fail to wipe or damage your opponent you are now at a disadvantage.
Plus, really good players just dance around them till they disappear or shoot em up, because BloodLetters are frail units.

For example, Iv'e used it to force a banshee threat away. After that I still have a banshee threat to deal with, but I lost my resources and RED, plus I have to invest more into a banshee counter.

My point is that, against a good player, blood sacrifice only stalls.

Nurland wrote:Well imo [b]blood sacrifice is a great way to boost your effectiveness in single engaments without crippling your economy by having a squad you might not want. Much like abilities like UYC, ToN etc..

But that's just it. You are using resources to win 1 engagement in a 20 minute game. That is if you are lucky and the Blood sacrifice pays for itself economically, where in most cases it does not.

Dark Riku wrote: Do we really want another generic global spawn? It will only take away from the uniqueness of the CL.

Considering that the Chaos Lord lacks any means to reinforce troops, having a global spawn will give him more field presence.

The most you would get with that is a retreat. The problem is that once the engagement is done, you have lost resources and RED to force a retreat and if you fail to wipe or damage your opponent you are now at a disadvantage.

What ressources ? The Blood scrifice only costs red, it's not like reinforcing one heretic for 13 req every minute is gonna bleed you dry.

Do we really want another generic global spawn? It will only take away from the uniqueness of the CL.

I agree, the point of the blood sacrifice is to create a sudden superiority where your opponent thought he had the upper hand, not to relieve the CL's economy.

for some reason I though it cost req... =.=

Dalakh wrote:I agree, the point of the blood sacrifice is to create a sudden superiority where your opponent thought he had the upper hand, not to relieve the CL's economy.

Ok so, 175 Red to scare your opponent. There is a reason your opponent has the upper hand, and temporal bloodletters just delay the ass whooping that's coming, maybe not then but later.... it's a one trick pony, that I find falls short.

Instead of a sudden superiority, why not a dependable troop option that also carries the sudden aspect. It will help transition army composition to deal with threats. Especially in later tiers where it just takes to long to build one from your base. ^^

Make it cost more of course.

When you face the ork or tyranid , where it does not matter how much you kill, but they still get to tier 3 before you. The only viable superiority is one that is not temporary.

For example, CL player has tics and CSM, no AV. He spots wartrukk. what is he to do?

Takes too long to build havocs and then upgrade to lascannon.

Plague marines take too long to build and slowly walk up.

In this instance, blood sacrifice will cause the wartruk to drive away and return when the letters disappear.

But if I could have those permanent blood letters, I will have enough soft AV to keep presence on the map, till I have a more effective counter.

Or lets say I had a bad engagement and was losing my lvl 3 CSM with squad leader to banshees. I could blood sacrifice and retreat will have made a clear transition from a CSM loss to Bloodletters.

Having extra 180dps power melee available at will is very nice. Esp since it is on a squad that you can send on a suicide mission np.

Superhooper01 wrote:I used it today and it drained the champ on the squad causing the tics to all die causing the squad to be wiped...my fault for being a noob and clicking on the aspiring champ but still pretty shit animation

If you target the AC, the AC will be used for the animation but a random tic model will die.
What you said doesn't sound right at all. Provide some proof please because it's a bug if you can.

It might do more damage to the squad if you target the AC. Due to AC's higher hp pool and damage sharing mechanics.
Not sure about this. Just a guess.

I've done it multiple times before and retested it yesterday ^^ It just kills a random heretic model.

It's kind of a safer way to uses blood sacrifice because the model you are sacrificing can still die in the air and then you don't get the bloodletters (unless they've changed that by now). You can bypass this by targeting the aspiring champion.
You're also missing out on his dps for the time though. Targeting a tic model is still probably the way to go ^^

Cant recall if i used it by clicking on the squad or the window at the top right just recall seeing my tics being overwhelmed and used blood sacrifice to tip the engagement but the champ was used as the sacrifice and as i tried to retreat them the champ model was attacked and all the heretics died 1st in retreat causing the squad to be wiped.

Well yeah, that's just because the AC has the die-last mechanic. You're letting the AC hang around way longer than the rest of the squad if he cast it on him while they're retreating. We thought you meant you cast it on the AC and the rest of the squad takes extra damage purely from the blood sacrifice itself.

I love blood sacrifice. Every one here seems to have discussed it well enough already.

One note though that may or may not still be true, it used to work anyway... if you have a shrine nearby when you use it, you can pull the temporal letters back to it and it will regen their energy faster than they lose it. Free squad. Limited mobility sure, but free letters. Can anyone say if this mechanic still works?

If I recall correctly I think Windu or Caeltos said that wasn't intended and therefore "fixed". So if I'm not mistaken this is no longer a thing.

Just seeing Daddy posts I think the only real problem you are having here is losing the reflex of using the Blood sacrifice as quick AV and get used to the fact that elite BL are no vehicle counter.

tem·po·ral
adjective

1. relating to worldly as opposed to spiritual affairs; secular.
2. of or relating to time.

tem·po·rar·y
adjective

1. lasting for only a limited period of time; not permanent.

temporary is the word you're all looking for

permanent bloodletters would be crazy without a price adjustment

peace out

Permanent Blood Letters near a shrine was fixed some time ago indeed. Elite introduced an extra energy reduction of 5 after a 20 second delay, so staying near a shine won't be enough to keep the Blood Letters in the material world and out of the warp.

Protip:

Get a GK partner with canticool + double strikes + purifiers
Make him spam his regen abilities
???
Permanent bloodletters!

Dat teamgame imbaness!

And use the Blood sacrifice on his purifier's justicar to teach that filthy GK to respect the almighty warp.

That's too bad actually. It was a neat trick and not TOO abusive.