Proposing IG Rocket Run Nerf

[Element]

Pretty much the title says it all. Of all the Nuke Globals in the game, this has to be one probably one of the hardest hitting in the game.

The Chaos Nuke, usually is not that bad unless there is a lot of infantry centered in it/ units are running through it in retreat of into back into base.

Orbital Bombardment- Usually doesn't wipe units but is arguably the best set up combo nuke in the game being able to catch units in the beams causing them to suspend in the air taking damage from another global say (plague cloud) or (Eldritch Storm/ Imperial Abyss) being the best

Eldritch Storm- Definitely devastating but can be largely mitigated by running out, unless set -up by a time field or warpspiders phase shift

Roks- I'd argueably say, actually needs a delay buff by maybe .5s-1s because as of this moment in time, it's pretty hard to hit with this global unless you can get a warp vomit knockback or a mekboy rumbla

The Rocket Run is the global that literally stands on its own and really needs no set up support. You lay down the strafing run. Your opponent smashes the X button, but it really doesn't matter because it takes about .25s for you to register the flare's and then hit the x button, and then because of the fact the Rocket Run has such a large strafing Radius/ short delay time (2s), usually you get caught in it anyways and you see a unit or 2 disappear with a large number needing to be reinforced.

Personally I'd think that just increasing the time delay by an extra second or decreasing the strafing run radius in regards to the spacing of the bombardment (width wise) not length wise would help the situation drastically. But I have been in plenty of games where this global can easily change the direction of the game, at no fault to the player being caught in the Rocket Run because the time delay didn't allow for any or even a slight respectable and decent size amount of their forces to get out of it radius after retreating. (Right now, I'd say a 5th of your forces caught in a rocket run are likely to run out of its radius (Not including Eldar (F.o.F. FTW) if that were to be somehow calculated so that at least a 1/3 of your forces (Suggesting the opposing rocket run player has savored the moment to nuke you when your units are going through a narrow passage or somewhat congregated etc..) I think that would really help.

I believe that the damage that comes from the nuke, is very honest and quite balanced, in respect to what I'd believe a rocket run would be, but for balance measures... there at least has to be some chance for the player getting Nuked to be able to get some of their forces out without taking such considerable losses as of the case now.

[Bahamut]

empyreal abyss and eldritch storm are actually quite stronger than rocket run :/

[Element]

I definitely respect your opinion. All the nukes are quite strong when they hit and Empyreal Abyss as well as Eldritch when properly set up are absolutely devastating. However, the keyword I'm getting at is the set up. Rocket Run really requires no Set up at all and your guaranteed to catch most of your opponents forces in the bombardment because of lack ofd elay time after the flares are set. I just personally believe that there shouldn't exist a nuke that really gives no means of escaping out of with out a set up in some means like warp phase set up. warp vomit set up, base retreat set up etc.

[Arbit]

I totally agree that Rocket Run is fucking ridiculous.

PROS:
- The delay is short enough that if you don't respond to the flares instantly, you will pretty much take the full brunt of the global. You CAN fully dodge it, but it basically requires that they use it in the worst possible way i.e. your army is standing in an open field and you are completely undistracted. All the IG player needs to do is provide a little distraction or disruption, or use chokepoints/terrain, and it's incredibly difficult to dodge.
- It knockbacks retreating units.
- It does a lot of (full?) damage in retreat.
- AFAICT the flares are indistinguishable from the LG's basilisk barrage.
- For that matter the flares are pretty hard to see if you hide them under a vehicle or just in the general chaos of exploding stuff.
- If you chain the runs together you can kill full heath squads, which is not difficult to do at all given the above qualities, in particular the short delay and high retreat knockback/damage.
- If your thirst for squad deleting is not sated, you can always propel the tattered remains of any survivors into the middle of your army.

CONS:
- Negligible AV damage.

Needless to say I don't think the cons outweigh the pros

@anomaly you left tyranno out of your analysis

Also I disagree about roks. They are pretty good right now. Very high damage but requires some setup, and appropriately orky in that sometimes small roks will fling survivors clear, and other times a huge rok will instantly wipe out a squad right off the bat.

[Commissar Yarrick]

[Element]

@anomaly you left tyranno out of your ANALYSIS

Also I disagree about roks. They are pretty good right now. Very high damage but requires some setup, and appropriately orky in that sometimes small roks will fling survivors clear, and other times a huge rok will instantly wipe out a squad right off the bat.

I did forget forget the tyranno Nuke. Thanks for catching that. The Tyranno Nuke creates Mass disruption but from my expereience usually tends to be the weakest of all the nukes. The spires are quite easy to dodge and its not like you can really get hit by all of the them. If there is a huge blob> Huge disruption but never do I find myself complainging about its destruciton capabilities. Probably the reason why i forgot to mention it.

The roks global is a strong global, I do feel it is a tad bit too long delay, but I can definitely live with where it's at now. Rather have people complaining a nuke is a slight bit underpowered rather than overpowered, because unlike a unit ability, A tends to be able to decide a game instantly if put to full effectiveness.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

This whole time you Were Silenze & i didn't know? Wow lol, no it doesn't needs a nerf. Not all RR are guarantee 100% successful

[saltychipmunk]

I dont think the con of low av damage is much of a con considering the race rocket run is a part of .

if this is about how it cant kill things like land raiders , may i point out the very easy an red free manticore + storm troopers approach.


The odd thing I see is that the races with arguably the best nukes ( Eld storm , rocks and rocket run) have the most access to easy methods of setting up for said nukes.

eldar can use phase armor or time field or even warpthrow.
orks can use the wierd boy, stick bombas and the ever popular kommandoes
and ig have old faithful , artillery spotters and rocket run its self.

in comparison sm, chaos and nid globals are arguably much harder to land a deadly blow with but also have a smaller aoe or just do less damage.

that dynamic always perplexed me.

[Element]

dont think the con of low av damage is much of a con considering the race rocket run is a PART OF .

if this is about how it cant kill things like land raiders , may i point out the very easy an red free manticore + storm troopers approach.


The odd thing I see is that the races with arguably the best nukes ( Eld storm , rocks and rocket run) have the most access to easy methods of setting up for said nukes.

eldar can use phase armor or time field or even warpthrow.
orks can use the wierd boy, stick bombas and the ever popular kommandoes
and ig have old faithful , artillery spotters and rocket run its self.

Well the nerf I'm proposing has nothing to do with he damage itself, but rather its delay time or (width dispersion of catching units). I have no problem with setup nukes. At least the player put in a fine tuned effort to make it happen and is essentially rewarded with a more impactful nuke. It's that rocket run really require no set-up to be very devastating because of how it always tends to catch the bulk of everything. (I'd actually not mind slightly increasing the damage of the nuke if that was offset by chance to get more units out if the nuke was not set-up)

This whole time you Were Silenze & i didn't know? Wow lol, no it doesn't needs a nerf. Not all RR are guarantee 100% successful

Yea, I went by v AnoMaly v when I played Black Ops 1 for 360, It kindu stuck. I used to average being in the top 50-100 players for Hard Core FFA each week on the global leaderboard with quite a number of times being in the top 20. The best I ever got was #2 at the point where I could average a 5-6 k/d per game with a really high kill/min ratio.(Is why you can see some players with 10 k/d but not be a top player) (It's not just about K'D its about Kills/per min )

[Helios]

Pretty much the title says it all. Of all the Nuke Globals in the game, this has to be one probably one of the hardest hitting in the game.

Stopped reading right there. When Rocket Run can take out a super like a BB at pretty much full health like how Eldritch Storm does, or wipe a entire squad in the blink of an eye like how roks does, then come back and tell us Rocket Run hits hard.

[Dark Riku]

Rocket Run does hit infantry very hard with almost no warning. It can "wipe an entire squad in the blink of an eye."
So I expect him to come back and tell you how hard Rocket Run hits. You can continue discussing.

@Tyranids nuke:
You guys can't underestimate the disruption and global buff it provides. It's amazing in the Tyranids race.
It also instawipes any structure it touches.

[Arbit]

Stopped reading right there. When Rocket Run can take out a super like a BB at pretty much full health like how Eldritch Storm does, or wipe a entire squad in the blink of an eye like how roks does, then come back and tell us Rocket Run hits hard.

- If you chain the runs together you can kill full heath squads, which is not difficult to do at all given the above qualities, in particular the short delay and high retreat knockback/damage.

It's a lot easier and more reliable to do than with roks.

Eldritch one-shotting supers is ridiculous, but your opponent doesn't always have supers. They always have infantry.

[Dark Riku]

Eldritch Storm can't one shot super units -.-
It can only one shot Land Raiders sometimes due to a weird bug involving units surrounding/embarked?

[Forestradio]

You can also one-shot Battlewagons as well iirc, although hitting a sped up battlewagon with a nuke is quite difficult.

I believe the bug has to do with garrisoned units. Or at least, I've had land raiders that are empty survive eldritches.

[Element]

@Tyranids nuke:
You guys can't underestimate the disruption and global buff it provides. It's amazing in the Tyranids race.
It also instawipes any structure it touches.

that is very true Riku, and is something I certainly overlook the stategic importance of, though from my experiences, the nuke isn't usually being used in that manner/ the damage from the nuke doesn't usually end up with the wiping of a ton of squads/ large amounts of reinforcement (that is unless there was a very large group of infantry piled underneath the capillary towers.

Also to note on eldritch... It's supposed to be a very strong vehicle Hunter global, and can indeed be a devastating infantry killer. However, what you have to realize is that there is a 4s delay to get your units out the way. In many cases this can be more than a sufficient amount of time to get most of your infantry units out of the way of the storm when not set up by a phase shift, time field, gravity bomb etc. The storm really is for trapping a vehicle by snaring it when it gets caught in the storm so that the Eldar player can finish it off. In addition both Riku and Forestradio have explained the bug with one shotting supers though there is not a definitive pin point as to what just yet

[Wise Windu]

something I certainly overlook the stategic importance of, though from my experiences, the nuke isn't usually being used in that manner/

And that's the fault of the user, not the nuke. If it's being used to deal direct burst damage, the person using it is using it wrong, or at least not to its greatest potential. It's a painful line breaker nuke, great for giving the Tyranids the ability to push against a fortified position. Strategy is part of balance too, not just damage.

the damage from the nuke doesn't usually end up with the wiping of a ton of squads/ large amounts of reinforcement (that is unless there was a very large group of infantry piled underneath the capillary towers.

It doesn't have to to be effective at killing stuff because of the buff and the push potential the large area of disruption gives. It lets the Tyranid army potentially kill a bunch of stuff rather than being the kill move itself.

[Element]

@Wise Windu
I totally agree with both of your comments. Like I said, I just personally tend to overlook that nuke because it isnt usually being used well in those regards but when it is, it is very supportive of the Nid rush

[Wise Windu]

Ah, okay. Thought you were implying it needed buffs or somethin'. Sorry about that

[HandSome SoddiNg]

@Wise Windu
I totally agree with both of your comments. Like I said, I just personally tend to overlook that nuke because it isnt usually being used well in those regards but when it is, it is very supportive of the Nid rush

'

Seems like you play too much of COD ...that game nvr did intigue me except Battlefield & i though you are still playing GK & praticising with em =/, feel free to add me back

[Element]

@Sod
Yea, I will always be a lover of GK, I just couldn't come to bring myself to play them this patch. I just didn't really care for 3x stormtroopers as my base at all times/ being unable to really be able to rely on interceptors as I tend to edge towards that playstyle. Next patch with the strike damage pattern changes as well as the interceptor buff, I should be back playing them again.

[saltychipmunk]

@Sod
Yea, I will always be a lover of GK, I just couldn't come to bring myself to play them this patch. I just didn't really care for 3x stormtroopers as my base at all times/ being unable to really be able to rely on interceptors as I tend to edge towards that playstyle. Next patch with the strike damage pattern changes as well as the interceptor buff, I should be back playing them again.

gotta say , the 3x disposable ist build is so good I dont think ill stop doing it even in next patch, since next patch really wont do anything about the Strike terrible scaling issues , then again right now i view both ist and strikes as that unit you get for the first engagement and then spend the rest of t1 finding clever ways to reduce model counts on, i dont think i ever reinforce either of those two once i can see t2 in my sights.

if only gk had easy access to nades or something , i would spike kill my ist my self so as to avoid feeding them to the enemy.

[Cyris]

This thread took a weird turn, but ditto to the last few GK comments. What seems like the strongest (skip strikes, spam IST) is the absolute last thing I want to play if picking this faction. I also hope the next patch helps, but it looks like more IST buffs and not much changing on strikes (I think bolters doing less spike damage is a nerf?)

[Broodwich]

pmuch what these guys said about gk

It would be nice if we could turn strikes into puries. At this point, there isnt much point in keeping them. And the delay on teleport for ints make them retarded.

Strikes are awesome for the first and maybe second engagement, but after that are just a resource hog. I dont see the patch doing anything for that

[Forestradio]

There's no rule saying you can't get 3 IST and a SS. In fact next patch 3 IST+SS+Purg will be the meta against non-warboss orks and tyranids. Add a rhino to taste.

On topic: RR and imo all nukes are mostly fine.

[BaptismByLoli]

I agree with Forest about Nukes. Their 500 Red which in itself is pretty damn expensive and therefore should really deliver something that can give you an edge or tip the scales

[saltychipmunk]

nukes them selves are fine , its the access to cheesy methods of setting up for said nukes that isnt uniformly accessible to all races that annoys me , especially when said nukes of those races are often supirior to the nukes of races that dont get easy access to set up abilities (looking at you gk and sm)

[Element]

nukes them selves are fine , its the access to cheesy methods of setting up for said nukes that isnt uniformly accessible to all races that annoys me , especially when said nukes of those races are often supirior to the nukes of races that dont get easy access to set up abilities (looking at you gk and sm)

That is a just statement to make..

Roks-warp vomit, mega rumbla, stick bomb barrage with knockback

Eldar- phase shift, farseer time slow ability (whatever its called)

SM- No manner of setup other than nuke run back to base/building (But they are the best set up nuke)

CSM- let the galaxy burn, subjugation, chains of torment, skewer slow + plague cloud is amazing hardly to see

Tyranids- need a building/ large blobbing


and that is where I'd imagine your directing that at Phase Shift>Storm, and Mega Rumbla with the mekboy. However what I'm trying to get at...is that at least they require a set up to an extent. RR has no set-up. You just lay down the strafing run and your opponent goes F@%#!! cuz there is no there escaping out of it..and while I'd say the warpspider and mekboy combos are even more ridiculous at times than even the RR .. at least they require you to have taken that one commander, as opposed to RR can be used with any IG commander.

[Superhooper01]

Hm nukes are tricky tbh i always ranked the eletrich storm as the best simply due to the vehicle stun and wipe chance but the rocket run can be pretty nasty all depends on placement like all of them. i think its ok just u dont have much time to get the hell out of dodge

[saltychipmunk]

I gotta say , after eating several rocket runs, the only major change that probably needs to happen is delay between when the flares show up and the air craft starts bombing should be increased by .5 - 1.5 seconds, right now it is nearly impossible to escape its aoe unless it was horribly placed , just line it up on a retreat path and it is a 100% hit

the flares aren't even a very accurate representation of where the bombs start and end.

And it is not like ig have a shortage of methods of setting up for a rocket run in the first place.

But really it should not be a 95% sure thing to murder a whole army with no set up or strings attached.