Dawn of War Codex

I have been wondering about the evolution of the mod and how the community could help improve it. There is a lot of unbalanced snipping with new ideas. I know was a little emotionally biased in my opinions about commanders nads in Lag's discussion (sorry Lag!). We need a system of weeding out unbalanced snipping.

I think concepts and ideas for the game should really reflect the peer review system.

The concepts and ideas are put forward in which our peers (the players and mod designers) pick, evolve and rework the idea. Concepts in this sense change the role of a unit or introduce a new idea. I am not talking about simple changes such as dps or price but rather something which has larger impact on the decision making process during the game. For example, move the Pain boy to teir 3.

To some extend this happens with people putting up their ideas with a thought process. This can be seen with Slaanesh Champion as started by Indrid, but this usually peters out due to the lack of agreement or resources. Perhaps there should be a window of review, say 3 weeks where the idea is challenged. Any comments that do not add to the process should be deleted so as to not clutter the discussion. After this time period the discussion is locked and a new thread is started with a summary of the concept and the discussion. This will probably lead to a number summarised blocks each with a different case.

For example the Slaanesh Champion:

State 1:

- Role: Description of state 1
-Tech - Teir 1t
-Price - 1x req, 1x power
Wargear:
Wargear 1: Description of wargear 1
Wargear 2: Description of wargear 2
Wargear 2: Description of wargear 3

State ...:

- Role: Description of state 1
-Tech - Teir ...t
-Price - ...x req, ...y power
Wargear:
Wargear 1: Description of wargear 1
Wargear 2: Description of wargear 2
Wargear 2: Description of wargear 3

State N:

- Role: Description of state 1
-Tech - Teir Nt
-Price - Nx req, Yx power
Wargear:
Wargear 1: Description of wargear 1
Wargear 2: Description of wargear 2
Wargear 2: Description of wargear 3

Reject the Slaanesh Champion

Each member gets single a vote for a state or for rejection (maybe limitations based on registered time or forum comments?) over two weeks. I expect there might be a series of votes as various states may be contested. The winning state gets a final, say 2 weeks review, after which it is point it is put forward to Caeltos and Lulgrim in which they have the final say. If resource are required, i.e. new models are needed then a call is put out to the community for development. I know I can help some what in the development of resources.

Once ready, the new unit is introduce in alpha (used to fix the unit bugs) and beta (used to balance the unit.

It is a lot of work for anyone who is going to mange it but I do think if we can find a community approach which is robust in evolving the mod there is a good future for it. Just my 2 cents...

Implementing a democratic method of implementation in the elitist elite mod will not go down well I assure you. Still there has to be some way of doing this, because quite frankly what we are doing at the moment is getting nowhere; it's as bad as philosophical polemic.

*sigh* I dunno. Kudos to you for trying Thomas, it doesn't hurt to give it a go eh?

voting system does sound nice.

That Torpid Gamer wrote:Implementing a democratic method of implementation in the elitist elite mod will not go down well I assure you. Still there has to be some way of doing this, because quite frankly what we are doing at the moment is getting nowhere; it's as bad as philosophical polemic.

Could you expand on that a bit? I don't follow you. Are you saying the designers are not open to suggestions?

I think designers want to kept a tight rein on the development process so not too let things get out of hand which is understandable. Designers may do what they wish with the mod, that is their privilege as the designers but I am fairly sure they would not be adverse to community input.

The main problem is that there is no systematic method for deriving consensus for ideas. If a system where in place to extract consensus in systemic manner it might thing easier for the designers get on board with the ideas.

It's a nice idea but Elite Mod is not designed by committee. This is Caeltos' baby and it's his vision, and a clear design vision from a single person is important I think. He is constantly thinking of new things and probably has ideas of things he would like to do way down the line from now, which may or may not negate other ideas people have.

We can all discuss and put forward ideas which Caeltos/Lul absorb and take under consideration for the future. They may not directly reply to everything put forward but I guarantee they pretty much read and consider everything that we say here. The more discussion, the better.

That being said, a structured way to discuss things would not be bad; just don't expect it to have a real chance of being implemented just because it gets the thumbs up from forum members. You are welcome to try a new system but whether people stick to it is another matter.

I suppose I see more as way through the squabbling to come to a point where a community case can be put forward for consideration by Caeltos/Lul. At the end of the day they would have final say but it would be a way for the community to say to them "we would like to see this" in structured manner.

TomastheTankEngine wrote:I have been wondering about the evolution of the mod and how the community could help improve it. There is a lot of unbalanced snipping with new ideas. I know was a little emotionally biased in my opinions about commanders nads in Lag's discussion (sorry Lag!). We need a system of weeding out unbalanced snipping.

I post ideas expecting to get snipped. I'm currently working on two games, and the brainstorming process we practice (three of us are involved in the design of game mechanics) is just putting relatively sensible ideas out there and expect to be shot down. If everyone takes a shot and it still sounds good - we go with it. If it sucks, at least we have a chance to come up with a great idea while discussing the lame one, or to at least narrow down what the idea needs more of. This process is repeated when the client is introduced to the conversation.

If your restrict people from posting lame ideas (or force them to be very elaborate) you will significantly limit the possibility of the latter happening.
Just IMO.

Suggestions that expand on units/accessories and such are always welcome. There might be of course some alterations to the propositions to make sure the implementation goes smoothly.

I don't really design the mod (although some of my random ideas/experiments like Raptor suppression and Meltaguns have actually been left in) so on the decision-making front you can focus on Caeltos.

*Lulgrim neatly sidesteps criticism*