IG Balance - Currently Discussing Notion 2)
Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 4:14 am
I want to start a new series of balance topics. Please in the discussion below can try and keep on topic to the things being addressed in the thread and also we will work through each discussion one at a time.
I will propose below some changes I would like to made to some of the IG units/globals/wargears at the moment and explain why. I would propose that we firstly discuss whether 1) should be changed and then once we reach a conclusion on that we should then move onto 2) and so on until we have covered each of these issues and come to a decisive conclusions on what we as the forum community think ought to be done about these so called "issues".
1) I propose reverting the sentinel's stomp back to its retail version wherein if it stunned a single model of a squad the whole squad would become stunned, rather than only stunning models it does damage to.
Reasoning:
Sentinels no longer start with stomp in elite and so a lot of the early pressure that came with sentinels is now gone. Having to pay 15 power for stomp is often not even worth it considering how rare it is that a foe gets melee vs IG yet sometimes such as when an apothecary gets ASM, or a chaos goes double KCSM or with stormboyz in T2 - essentially durable fast moving melee squads, it seems unfair that the stomp no longer stuns all models, it often means that the sentinel ends up dying to melee squads when it tries to stomp them because it only stuns a few models and the rest move in after their friends were knocked back and finish it off. Squads like ASM can exploit their melee charge burst thing to easily dodge stomps and all in all I think it just has devalued stomp too much, I think the 15 power requirement was a large enough nerf to the sentinel alone.
Verdict on 1):
Scrap it - The sentinel stunning an entire squad when it knocks back a single model is too gimmicky and can severely disadvantage players who wish to or are otherwise forced to use melee squads against IG in scenarios in which some models get stuck on pathing and so on. It allows for no real counter-play and would make the sentinel too powerful in T1 - a place where it already dominates.
Counter-proposal - Instead of stunning the entire squad when it hits one model with the stomp why not increase the range of the stomp and if needs be decrease the time it takes to stun the model from 7 seconds to 6 or 5seconds? This will make the ability generally more reliable without making it too strong in T1 and also making the sentinel has a bit more of a defense vs T2 melee squads such as KCSM which it often has to defend against even though with its current it is largely ineffective against such units.
Counter-Counter-proposal - No, learn how to stomp noob. No need to nerf the duration, just need to stomp better. Stomp is not meant to counter things like ASM in T2 and stormboyz or KCSM, it is more for dealing with T1 melee.
2) Nerf assail so that it is channeled again OR reduce its casting range.
Reasoning:
The ability is absurdingly strong at the moment. Jump units may not even jump out of assail and so when combined with the servo skull the inquisitor can immobilise jump squads from afar in an instant preventing them from jumping on a HWT that may be shooting down a walker while she simultaneously runs around with her holy brazier countering ranged and melee units. This ability effectively takes a squad out of play - ranged or melee due to the suppression - within an instant for 8 seconds from range 45. It's too powerful to not be channeled and it alone sways engagements entirely for a mere 20 power while the armour gives the IQ +100hp too, it's practically a no-brainer vs anything other than eldar. It's even brutally effective at just pinning lone heroes/ranged units when they are out of cover so they are forced off by guardsmen fire. You can also use it vs a set-up team to suppress them then force melee with your IQ.
If it was channeled it would make it a bit fairer considering there is no counter-play. The inquisitor may still shoot while channeling it anyway so it would synergise well with her melta pistol which does tend to be quite niche.
Verdict on 2):
3) Increase the damage of the incendiary shell when buying the T3 "heavy mortar shells" upgrade from 20 damage +7DOT for 20seconds to 25damage+10DOT for 20seconds - subject to minor numerical changes if deemed more appropriate.
Reasoning:
The upgrade is a bit underwhelming at the moment and it does really do too much considering the additional req cost. Noting of course that req itself is more valuable at this late stage of the game than earlier on - especially for IG. It also serves as an incentive for more late game incendiary shell, something that is otherwise lacking as the incendiary shell does start to become less and less useful as units begin to level more and more.
Verdict on 3):
May we please start by only discussing "1)" and move onto the others once a verdict has been reaching on that.
I will propose below some changes I would like to made to some of the IG units/globals/wargears at the moment and explain why. I would propose that we firstly discuss whether 1) should be changed and then once we reach a conclusion on that we should then move onto 2) and so on until we have covered each of these issues and come to a decisive conclusions on what we as the forum community think ought to be done about these so called "issues".
1) I propose reverting the sentinel's stomp back to its retail version wherein if it stunned a single model of a squad the whole squad would become stunned, rather than only stunning models it does damage to.
Reasoning:
Sentinels no longer start with stomp in elite and so a lot of the early pressure that came with sentinels is now gone. Having to pay 15 power for stomp is often not even worth it considering how rare it is that a foe gets melee vs IG yet sometimes such as when an apothecary gets ASM, or a chaos goes double KCSM or with stormboyz in T2 - essentially durable fast moving melee squads, it seems unfair that the stomp no longer stuns all models, it often means that the sentinel ends up dying to melee squads when it tries to stomp them because it only stuns a few models and the rest move in after their friends were knocked back and finish it off. Squads like ASM can exploit their melee charge burst thing to easily dodge stomps and all in all I think it just has devalued stomp too much, I think the 15 power requirement was a large enough nerf to the sentinel alone.
Verdict on 1):
Scrap it - The sentinel stunning an entire squad when it knocks back a single model is too gimmicky and can severely disadvantage players who wish to or are otherwise forced to use melee squads against IG in scenarios in which some models get stuck on pathing and so on. It allows for no real counter-play and would make the sentinel too powerful in T1 - a place where it already dominates.
Counter-proposal - Instead of stunning the entire squad when it hits one model with the stomp why not increase the range of the stomp and if needs be decrease the time it takes to stun the model from 7 seconds to 6 or 5seconds? This will make the ability generally more reliable without making it too strong in T1 and also making the sentinel has a bit more of a defense vs T2 melee squads such as KCSM which it often has to defend against even though with its current it is largely ineffective against such units.
Counter-Counter-proposal - No, learn how to stomp noob. No need to nerf the duration, just need to stomp better. Stomp is not meant to counter things like ASM in T2 and stormboyz or KCSM, it is more for dealing with T1 melee.
2) Nerf assail so that it is channeled again OR reduce its casting range.
Reasoning:
The ability is absurdingly strong at the moment. Jump units may not even jump out of assail and so when combined with the servo skull the inquisitor can immobilise jump squads from afar in an instant preventing them from jumping on a HWT that may be shooting down a walker while she simultaneously runs around with her holy brazier countering ranged and melee units. This ability effectively takes a squad out of play - ranged or melee due to the suppression - within an instant for 8 seconds from range 45. It's too powerful to not be channeled and it alone sways engagements entirely for a mere 20 power while the armour gives the IQ +100hp too, it's practically a no-brainer vs anything other than eldar. It's even brutally effective at just pinning lone heroes/ranged units when they are out of cover so they are forced off by guardsmen fire. You can also use it vs a set-up team to suppress them then force melee with your IQ.
If it was channeled it would make it a bit fairer considering there is no counter-play. The inquisitor may still shoot while channeling it anyway so it would synergise well with her melta pistol which does tend to be quite niche.
Verdict on 2):
3) Increase the damage of the incendiary shell when buying the T3 "heavy mortar shells" upgrade from 20 damage +7DOT for 20seconds to 25damage+10DOT for 20seconds - subject to minor numerical changes if deemed more appropriate.
Reasoning:
The upgrade is a bit underwhelming at the moment and it does really do too much considering the additional req cost. Noting of course that req itself is more valuable at this late stage of the game than earlier on - especially for IG. It also serves as an incentive for more late game incendiary shell, something that is otherwise lacking as the incendiary shell does start to become less and less useful as units begin to level more and more.
Verdict on 3):
May we please start by only discussing "1)" and move onto the others once a verdict has been reaching on that.
