Dawn of War Codex

Hello,
What I am going to share here, is something I've been thinking about ever since Chaos Rising came out. It is about the csm unit and its upgrades on t2. I would like this unit to be more fluff acurate. I would like to say that the idea of "Slaughter" ability is great, I realy enjoy it and it actualy makes sence now to leave CSM without upgrades, which is nice. But still you are beeing forced to go certain builds from time to time, usualy its MoT marines. I dont mind Rubric Marines, but I dont feel that they fit in the role as standart CSM. I think that going after the example of Plague Champion's Chosen, we should have a Sorcerer exclusive unit call-in "Rubric Marines", which'd basicaly be CSM+Champ+MoT+EW on t2/t3. On Place of MoT upgrade and overall mark upgrades I'd set weapon upgrades, for example chaos plasma gun for simple CSM on place of MoT.

I think a balanced solution can be found. What do you think?

im not sure what purpose this would serve....

also, rubric marines are souls in power armor, so upgrading a CSM squad to rubric marines... makes no sense.

Sindri_Myr wrote:Hello,
What I am going to share here, is something I've been thinking about ever since Chaos Rising came out. It is about the csm unit and its upgrades on t2. I would like this unit to be more fluff acurate. I would like to say that the idea of "Slaughter" ability is great, I realy enjoy it and it actualy makes sence now to leave CSM without upgrades, which is nice. But still you are beeing forced to go certain builds from time to time, usualy its MoT marines. I dont mind Rubric Marines, but I dont feel that they fit in the role as standart CSM. I think that going after the example of Plague Champion's Chosen, we should have a Sorcerer exclusive unit call-in "Rubric Marines", which'd basicaly be CSM+Champ+MoT+EW on t2/t3. On Place of MoT upgrade and overall mark upgrades I'd set weapon upgrades, for example chaos plasma gun for simple CSM on place of MoT.

I think a balanced solution can be found. What do you think?

Besides you thinking, "this is cool", why does Chaos Army need this unit? Is there a unit that already exists that does this? Explain an example of this unit working that a current chaos unit cannot

Ven wrote: rubric marines are souls in power armor, so upgrading a CSM squad to rubric marines... makes no sense.

Exactly, that is the point of it. Currently you are upgrading CSM into Rubrics by taking an MoT mark(atleast the model is changing to Thousand Sons rubrics). I think it is wrong. While you could simply leave it as it was in retail, leaving the standart CSM-models for MoT marines, which would be correct fluffwise, you could transfer rubric models to Thousand Sons eliteDLC, make it more fluff friendly.
My original suggestion was to replace MoT marines with plasma-gun marines, and make MoT marines an exclusive Chaos Sorc unit. Purpose? More variety, just like with most things Elite adds. I could ask the same about Chosen Plague marines, PC never needed an aditional melee unit. Or why did Chaos need Phobos in the first place, we already had Ulcair as Superunit?
P.S sure I never pretended it to be an urgent need, but I still think that it is something you should keep in mind.

in tabletop standard CSM squads can get "marks" just like in DOW2. tbh the intended change is less-fluffy and serves no purpose balance wise unfortunately.

it would just be unneeded work for the modders to make the game even less fluffy, not more. while not actually providing a function.

Ven wrote:in tabletop standard CSM squads can get "marks" just like in DOW2.

Yeah, but they dont turn them into Rubric Marines.

"Together with the Aspiring Sorcerers of Tzeentch who lead them, they form the basic Thousand Sons squads.[4a][4b] The sorcerers and lords of the Thousand Sons use these "Rubicae" as bodyguards and enforcers.[5]"(http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rubric_Marine)

What I mean is that Rubrics are exclusive to Thousand Sons. And even if they'd fight on a side of a diff. Legion they'd remain in the original colour scheme.So it'd be lot better to just leave them for TS and leave normal CSM models for other warbands.

The phobos was to probably give a bit more versatility to the chaos T3. Frankly in retail it was very rarely ever worth getting.

Non-balance perspective - but I think giving CSM weapon upgrades will just serve to further homogenise the LSM and CSM factions in DoW2.

I feel like that's a good part of the reason that CSM only have marks in the first place; it helps define them outside of being "Dark Space Marines".

well the MoT marines just look like rubic marines, they're not actually rubric marines, the game never says they are. so these marks are mork like bending the lore rather than breaking it.

Ven wrote:well the MoT marines just look like rubic marines, they're not actually rubric marines, the game never says they are. so these marks are mork like bending the lore rather than breaking it.

I dont have problem with "marks", since as you rightfuly mentioned, they are a part of the tabletop aswell. I have a problem with their appearance. Chaos Space Marines CAN NOT look like Rubric Marines lorewise. Same goes for Berserker helms btw, while berserks make their appearance in other legions atleast.
"just look like rubic marines, they're not actually rubric marines" and why?

Sindri_Myr wrote:"just look like rubic marines, they're not actually rubric marines" and why?

Because the Chaos Gods want it so.

On an "It'd be cool, man" level, I too would like to see basic CSM models used for T&KCSM, but then have the Berserker and Rubric models used as the base CSM models in the World Eaters and Thousand Sons Elite schemes.

Then again, what if the player mixed marks? Khorne Rubrics? Rubric Berserkers!?

Dunno why CSM should get a plasma upgrade when they already have an upgrade that gives them inferno damage.

Nurland wrote:Dunno why CSM should get a plasma upgrade when they already have an upgrade that gives them inferno damage.

He meant the plasma upgrade outright replacing Mark of Tzeentch I think.

krakza wrote:On an "It'd be cool, man" level, I too would like to see basic CSM models used for T&KCSM, but then have the Berserker and Rubric models used as the base CSM models in the World Eaters and Thousand Sons Elite schemes.

Then again, what if the player mixed marks? Khorne Rubrics? Rubric Berserkers!?

Well if the player mixes marks, then there is still a big positive difference in the appearance to what we have. You have Thousand Sons Rubrics with axes, and you have Khorne Berserkers with inferno bolters, which isnt all THAT wrong since it is kind of possible in certain situations, atleast it is imaginable compared to things like Rubrics in the World Eaters colour-scheme.

I rather not give up the current MoT in favor of making the CSM become more similar to Tacs. Not to mention that plasma gun CSM would probably not work out especially well. Unless the change is purely visual.

Well, giving '' a '' plasma gun insted of '' 4 '' inferno damage bolter sounds ummm... No, I won't give definition, I may fail.

Also, if they are not really Rubic Marines, why we changed their skins into Rubics in MoT then? I'm not complaining, I loved these new skins and it was a very good idea. I love MoT CSM and I think they are powerfull enough so they don't need anything else. For visual changes? Much bigger and majestic armors I say. Easy to say from here ofcourse.

Also; Marks makes Chaos a very cool army. I haven't seen anyone who wants to change it untill I see you.