Dawn of War Codex

I just don't understand how to play vs mekboy. Coz every time i try to push mb he just outmasses me. I tryed to play 2 scouts 1 tsm and asm but it seems it doesn't work. Coz ihaven't got enough fire power to outshot him but if try 2 tsm instead of 2 scouts his sluggas reaching my army and then it gg wp. So have you any tips for me?

Go devastators/turret in T1, triple scouts. Get artificer on the techmarine. Use the mines to counter slugga flanks on the turret/secure gen-bashes easier/snare deff dread/wartrukk rushes. If he rushes a vehicle mines + the melta gun do really well. In T1 you should try layering your devastator with your turret with your tacs/tm in front. The extra hp regen from artificer is very nice for bleeding shootas without having to retreat. Get two shotguns to bleed the hell out of stormboys, don't get sarge unless you really need to as you don't want to lose to a deff dread rush here. Use the third scout for constant capping - don't upgrade it. You can get MCB in T1 if you really are under severe pressure from melee squads but really it should be unnecessary.

If you get T2 first you want to save up for a dreadnought and get sternguard. The hellfire of sternguard ignores cover so it makes sterns even better at holding ground in cover vs ranged units and bleeding more shootas models. Once the dread comes out it absolutely tears stormboyz apart and can deter the vehicles from coming anywhere near your turret. If you wipe the stormboyz, or if they get a weirdboy/stikks AND have less than 2 slugga squads going about AND don't look like they are going T3 anytime soon, only then do you buy the assault cannon for your dread. Otherwise emperor's fist and the melee resistance are far too useful - they will make nobs pretty terrible vs your composition too.

After you get the dread your foe will likely go tanbustas - they are mobile AV strong against melee walkers and the barrage will aid greatly in killing your turret (although with 2 scouts+the TM you can outrepair it if you blob, chances are that won't happen though). Thing is, tanbustas have to get real close to the dread to kill it, at least compared to lootas, so this is going to be a great target for your sternguard+techmarine and it will hurt the ork eco in the long-run. The turret has already served its purpose though by forcing the bustas over the lootas vs a melee walker AND giving you a great T1.

Regardless, if you got a dread out or you got to T2 second and the ork rushed a vehicle (like they should have) then you should get a second devastator squad. If they got a vehicle you will probably need a lascannon on the first ASAP - combine it with the TM melta gun mines to ensure that the ork cannot get a gen-bash off vs you. This is a very key part of the match-up. If they get a gen-bash off you you are stuck in T2 for a long time and the ork can tech up and go nobs+tank which is very difficult to beat alongside a T2 which included a weirdboy.

If you needed a lascannon you should now get out a third devastator, and use it just like your turret before - put it behind your front devastators to protect them from the mek/stormboyz, stop shootas from flanking. Use your lascannon for capping now. If you only have two HB devs out then just do the same thing but ignore the use your lascannon for capping bit.

At this point you will probably be floating a little req (assuming you haven't bled too much in T1/early T2). This is the perfect time to drop that new drop pod and reinforce your units cheaply while getting an extra tac squad. Why do you want a T2 tac squad? Additional fire-power. You could just get an AC dread but then this leaves you vulnerable to an ork nob squad rush AND it makes the stormboyz way way harder to control since you lose emperor's fist. It's better to get the additional tac, drop a sarge on them and watch them, alongisde the sterns and TM bleed ork models like mad in no time. Weirdboys and tankbustas are priority targets, try and suppress them with your forward devastator and use the backwards devastator to wade off sluggas. After suppressing the weirdboy/tankbusta shoot them down with your TM/2 tacs immediately. Try to spread out your units so the weirdboy doesn't knock them all over in one shot... He WILL die fast and once he's gone you are impenetrable assuming they lack stikks. If they lack stikks then focus down the tankbustas/lootas (their AV) now your dreadnought is invincible and can move forward to force them off. You may find, so long as the vehicular threats have been dealt with by your mines+melta+lascannon that you want the master crafted bolter now in T2. Good choice, better than getting in T1 because that 30 power is better spent teching up so you don't fall behind and get beat by a vehicle rush. Now though you can use high powered shot to shut-down the weirdboy and "snipe" him with ranged dps. I recommend it - unless somehow they got nobs in which case the plasma gun is better.

After all that you can finally go T3. If they're stuck in T2 then an autocannon predator will be brilliant. Be very careful of the beamy loota on the mekboy. It caan be troublesome vs predators and it btw, is precisely why I said to go for a fast dread and not a fast razor even if you got to T2 first. Vs warboss/KN a fast razorback is far superior due to the bleed it causes and the fact that they have to totally rely on bustas/lootas to kill them, bustas bleed models fast, lootas are too immobile to catch a razor. Focus down the mek now when you seem him with the beamy. Your ranged dps at this point will be brutal and if they get a tank of their own your tank+lascannon+the mines will make it VERY easy to defeat, you don't even need the lascannon upgrade on your predator. If they get nobs all the ranged dps (plasma tacs, plasma TM, sterns, autocannon pred, one vengeance round devastator+2 shotgun scouts) + the melee dread makes them hilariously easy to defeat.

P.S you will need to lose some models on your scouts/devs in order to have the pop for the pred, totally worth it though, especially now devs have melee resist, they are very hard for stormboyz to kill.

Basically by going ASM or 2 tacs, or 2 tacs AND asm, you are just doing it wrong. Yes, these are very good ways to negate shootas but by doing this and getting no devs and fewer shotgun scouts the ork melee threat becomes too strong. In T1 the devastators are sufficient vs shootas boyz, you don't need ASM, then in T2 your upgraded tacs/sterns are a good enough shoota boy counter. You should be more concerned about the ork melee. Also note, that despite all of what I just said I do think this MU favours the mekboy, although the TM is probably the best vs orks just due to how easily he can deal with ork vehicle rushes and the weirdboy. Thing is though you need to keep your eyes on your scouts. If the mek is good he will get the big shoota on the mek and harass them endlessly. If you lose too many scout models you will lose due to the bleed stalling your tech, the ork rushes vehicles in t2, destroys your farm then rushes a tank+nobs and you don't have the eco to get out the dreads+devs to counter it. The thing about this MU that often screws over SM players is the Ork getting out a next tier unit while the SM is teching the next tier. In T2 YOU must get to T2 soon after them or you lose all your power and it is GG. For T3 this is NOT the case. Two dreadnoughts+a few devastator can beat anything the ork T3 sends at you so do not feel pressured to go T3 just because you think he's getting nobs. No. Totally unnecessary.

WALL of love

Thank you very much man! So detailed tip! I'll try it out. But can i ask one thing& What bout nids? What's the best bo vs RA and La? Orks and nids 2 hardest ma for me. (

You're telling me...

I can get three scouts, dev and/or turret AND tacs in T1 without getting insta vehicle GG'd?!?!

I suppose I can see it working. Start of with three scooters in the beginning, hug cover while scouting the enemy power farm. If they're rushing power, grab a tac and flame away. Add turret/mines to flavour to provide defensive assistance. Add devastator support to stop the mek from being too aggressive.

A few points though:
Is a lascannon necessary to fight T2 ork vehicles? This is something which I've been thinking about constantly, since that lascannon is more or less dead weight after you took care of a single trukk. I really, really wish for the TM melta, mines/orb, veng devs and sternies to be enough, but deep down I know that I'm never going to chase a trukk/deff dread down without a snare, which makes this somewhat of a rhetorical question.

Is the three scout opening really necessary? I understand the logic in large maps with loads of stuff to cap (Gorge, Ashes), but it seems like you're asking to get taken to a ride through Bleedtown USA in less resource friendly maps. Building a later game third scout, when you've seen a stormboy moving in seems to make more sense in these maps and makes you less succeptible to the ork T2 rush, since you're not going to be bashing anything any time soon without that tac

I would go 1 extra scout squad and one tsm.

Get the artificer armor, and I would skip turrets or spend any power on anything else then the armor for TM and 2 scouts sergeants.

Orks vehicles are not as problematic as other races, and you can deal with them even if you loose your power farm, just get a plasma dev as soon as you hit T2.

Excellent post Torpid! Well thought out and while it's long, it's easy enough for even plebians like me to follow

My only concern is that it sounds like a bit of over dependence on mines to help stunt early pushes and the early vehicle in t2. Ork detection is very easy to come by, so I don't really know how effective the mines will actually be imo. Artificer is still pretty good though even if its just the health and regen.

Cheekie Monkie wrote:You're telling me...

I can get three scouts, dev and/or turret AND tacs in T1 without getting insta vehicle GG'd?!?!

I suppose I can see it working. Start of with three scooters in the beginning, hug cover while scouting the enemy power farm. If they're rushing power, grab a tac and flame away. Add turret/mines to flavour to provide defensive assistance. Add devastator support to stop the mek from being too aggressive.

A few points though:
Is a lascannon necessary to fight T2 ork vehicles? This is something which I've been thinking about constantly, since that lascannon is more or less dead weight after you took care of a single trukk. I really, really wish for the TM melta, mines/orb, veng devs and sternies to be enough, but deep down I know that I'm never going to chase a trukk/deff dread down without a snare, which makes this somewhat of a rhetorical question.

Yeah. It sucks doesn't it? But, especially for the DD you really do need a lascannon. If you are lucky with mines you can snipe a wartrukk with sterns/tm quite easily though. Still risk though, you do not want T2 sluggas flanking you with wartrukk support.

Cheekie Monkie wrote:Is the three scout opening really necessary? I understand the logic in large maps with loads of stuff to cap (Gorge, Ashes), but it seems like you're asking to get taken to a ride through Bleedtown USA in less resource friendly maps. Building a later game third scout, when you've seen a stormboy moving in seems to make more sense in these maps and makes you less succeptible to the ork T2 rush, since you're not going to be bashing anything any time soon without that tac

I think that's a fair point. It would be better to start with the 2 scouts, tac, dev and just get the third scout once they go for the storms. Especially vs KN/mek.