Dawn of War Codex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0jz8eRQ8WQ

In his last stream Caeltos claimed that sluggas are fine, so we did test and video above shows how balanced sluggas atm. To make them more balanced. Power meleeweapons should be removed from burnas and slugga nob leader damage per hit and dps should be decreased from (85/65) to (50/30).

try hitting the whole slugga squad with merciless strike next time

You jumped into a fully upgraded dedicated melee squad and lost, I don't really see a problem with that TBH. Sluggas had pretty low HP by the end too.

1. Orks are way underpowered compared to SM, nerf sluggas = no chances for orks IMHO. 2.Sluggas must be stronger then ASM. ASM got jumppack and lot's of distruption + they are fat. DPS isnt their main role. 3. In that case shees are OP as well.

If there is something OP in this game it's Chaos. But to be fair it's not about OP but just easier to play. Chaos and SM is much easier to play then Orks, Eldars or IG (dunno about nids).

Kvek wrote:try hitting the whole slugga squad with merciless strike next time

Kvek is right, your jump was absolutely horrible, you jumped right in the middle of them rather than the front of them or behind them so that they that were fighting you from the front and didn't get an easy surround which makes your normal special attacks and your merciless strike do more damage. You made it so that 1 burna, 1 slugga and the nob were fighting 1 model so you lost an ASM model very fast and your merciless strike only hit 4 out of 7 of the sluggas too.

Yeah this video doesn't make a great claim. T2 Sluggas, fully upgrades = ded. melee, ASM = disruption

ASM isn't made for fighting against melee squads. They are made for attacing defensless parts of the enemy. Such as set up teams, ranged squads, etc... If you want a real fight, upgrade them to Vanguard or whatever it is.

Torpid wrote:

Kvek wrote:try hitting the whole slugga squad with merciless strike next time

Kvek is right, your jump was absolutely horrible, you jumped right in the middle of them rather than the front of them or behind them so that they that were fighting you from the front and didn't get an easy surround which makes your normal special attacks and your merciless strike do more damage. You made it so that 1 burna, 1 slugga and the nob were fighting 1 model so you lost an ASM model very fast and your merciless strike only hit 4 out of 7 of the sluggas too.

Oh my gam gash dang doodle, you just opened my eyes.

Balance around the army and it's composition, not just entity against entity.

So, unit 550/75 isn't melee dedicated, unit is melee dedicated 410/40, k got it.

DandyFrontline wrote:1. SM are way underpowered compared to Orks,

FTFY

Guys, hitting 4/7 models is not a bad strike...

ASM are not an anti-melee squad. Melee squads are anti-ASM.

Dark Riku wrote:

DandyFrontline wrote:1. SM are way underpowered compared to Orks,

FTFY

Guys, hitting 4/7 models is not a bad strike...

ASM are not an anti-melee squad. Melee squads are anti-ASM.

If you are choosing to actively engage melee with your ASM it is.

I still think that the slugga nob even at level 1 does too much damage and has too much health. It leads to one bad thing - with levels he becomes unkillable and his damage output becomes ridiculous.

I don't get this thread.

ASM are a counter to setup teams and range squads with low melee damage. Sluggas are more designed to counter melee units. So if the sluggas win vs ASM it works as intended I'd say.

If you want to beat sluggas, use a unit which is designed to counter melee attackers and not one which is good vs range attacks

Sluggas isn't just antimelee squad sluggas is anti everything (except vehicles, but i'm pretty sure that they can take down low hp veh like rhino). So that's why i'm asking about nerfing sluggas, on T2 sm just haven't got unit that can counter them properly. If ork is really good player and goes for 2 slugga squad then it's gg for sm.

But what you suggest entails ASM being able to counter most t2 melee units now. Should they beat Bloodletters now as well? This seems like a case of you not utilising the other forms of counter play that SM have, such as shotgun scouts/apo heals/battlecry. I've not seen you play so I can't tell you how you play, but from the sounds of it you seem to expect ASM to be able to solo another melee squad 1v1. SM were never about soloing things in the first place, nor is any faction designed with that in mind, but SM rely a lot on being able to complement their units a lot and rely on a lot of counter plays with grouped units, not single squad on squad combat unless it is the very start of a 1v1 or a unit like fully upgraded scouts on map control.

Here is best test that shows how actually sluggas are "balanced" Assault terminators - the most expensive infantry unit in game: 650/100/350, sluggas lvl 4 and under the effects of UYC and AB so their cost increases from 410/40 to 410/40/150.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2OUHfKFcI

And you know what the biggest problem of this op shit? Their nob leader, decreasing his dps and dph will make suggas much much more balanced. Or you'll say that AT isn't dedicated anti melee unit? They meant to counter setup teams and ranged squads?

Son of Malice wrote:Here is best test that shows how actually sluggas are "balanced" Assault terminators - the most expensive infantry unit in game: 650/100/350, sluggas lvl 4 and under the effects of UYC and AB so their cost increases from 410/40 to 410/40/150.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2OUHfKFcI

And you know what the biggest problem of this op shit? Their nob leader, decreasing his dps and dph will make suggas much much more balanced. Or you'll say that AT isn't dedicated anti melee unit? They meant to counter setup teams and ranged squads?

No it isn't the best "test". it's absolutely abysmal. If the enemy is a warboss with lv4 sluggas why on Earth would you get hammernators? Hammernators counter piercing ranged units and walkers. You would get either lightning claws, or more likely, ranged terminators or a predator. Ranged termies are great since they allow you to go devastators and sternguard and kill the orks at range since the termies themselves will force away the weirdboy since the weirdboy cannot knock them over with his attack. The predator is just amazing vs orks. Also, why would you stay in combat with a squad that has UYC and 'ard boyz for that whole duration? That's like saying tics are OP because touch of nurgle heretics can solo ork t2 stormboyz. There's no logic in this...

This thread almost reminds me of the good old days... almost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect

Pokemon, come on! People have to admit that leveled slugga boyz overperform. There is just no single justification for that ridiculous damage of slugga boyz' nob. It is such a cheap T1 unit just like hormagaunts. Yet hormagaunts are something nobody would ever call decent whereas when it comes to judging slugga boyz' performance everybody speaks about this annoying term "DEDICATED!!#!$#!" melee unit

OMG do you know about Weirdboys's "over dere" ability. Skillfull ork will just throw at you his melee blob and it will utterly fuck your army. This test was made to show that sm basiclly haven't got melee units that can counter sluggas. Two melee dedicated units fighting againist each over, but one unit is T1 unit with T2 upgrade while over is the most expensive unit in game.And i didn't mentioned call da boyz global, in fights it makes ork army litterally unkillable + all units gaining 15% melee dmg. So sm just defenceless if ork player have some skills in weirdboy use.

Yea everytime same old shit when it comes to nerf sluggas or nobz: " THEY ARE MELEE DEDICATED, FUCK YOU NOOB, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING!!!" Unit that costs 75/25 doing higher dmg than AT model with lightning claws, lets just call it "dedicated" and it will become balanced, yea sounds good enough.

And you know i didn't even mention nobz despite the fact that they are buffed in elite in case of wargear cost.

Sluggas are really imho supposed to be really great against stuff like Faptors and ASM and KCSM. They are supposet to fuck up (or at least be cost effective in melee) power armor. I am not an Ork player but I do play a lot of SM and Chaos and I don't think that Sluggas are really OP. Slugga nob could have less hp but give a bigger hp bonus for other sluggas if the hp pool is deemed problematic.

I think that a step was made to reduce their massive health pool. Now it is more or less bearable. Just a slight adjustment to the leader's dps and we can give them a green light.

Son of Malice wrote:OMG do you know about Weirdboys's "over dere" ability. Skillfull ork will just throw at you his melee blob and it will utterly fuck your army. This test was made to show that sm basiclly haven't got melee units that can counter sluggas. Two melee dedicated units fighting againist each over, but one unit is T1 unit with T2 upgrade while over is the most expensive unit in game.And i didn't mentioned call da boyz global, in fights it makes ork army litterally unkillable + all units gaining 15% melee dmg. So sm just defenceless if ork player have some skills in weirdboy use.

That's a problem with the weirdboy not the sluggas. Regardless, a melee dreadnought in that case would seal the deal alongside ranged terminators. Of course the ork gets this in T2 but this is the way the ork works. Its t2 is great vs other t2s but shitty vs t3s. You have to bleed them and prolong the t2 so that by the time you are t3 they are t2 and then you win because their t2 cannot fight your t3 and they keep bleeding and so they never reach t3 themselves.

Incidentally the weirdboy did get a lot of nerfs and I think he's fine now.

Just play some orks vs opponents of simliar or higher skill level to get some perspective on how to counter them. It's a ranged based meta where dedicated melee units have a hard time getting in the thick of things at high enough hp without a costly investment in a transport method, most of which are typically countered by a cheaper counter purchase.

Sm vs orks is one of the best balanced match ups in the game imo, especially given how vastly different the 2 races are and how they play out. Sm's way of countering dedicated melee has never been fighting them in melee apart from the fc, melee dread and lcat, sm have access to plenty of disruption from very early on the game just for that purpose. Sm are also far more versatile in terms of play style and strategy, sm can pull of offensive and defensive strategies and can even convert from one to another on the fly mid game while orks regardless of the bo, tier, economy, vps, anything rly... will always be on the offensive trying to get in your face and to keep their economy one step ahead of the opponent and to get to T3.

Toilailee wrote:This thread almost reminds me of the good old days... almost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect

hahah

Toilailee wrote:This thread almost reminds me of the good old days... almost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect

Sounds abit like the Max Power effect.

Rofl

I think sluggas are well balanced atm... With the nob they are exemplar dedicated melee... I would expect them to beat hammernators with globals and at level 4 tbh