Newb Eldar Woes || Eldar Squads lose out to.... everything?

[aodtv]

Title. (VS GK)

I feel my eldar squads lose out to everything. My *DireAvengers got gunned down by inq stormtroopers, which also obliterated my banshees before they even got in range to hit anything, and things seemed to spiral out of control from there.

Power armor is hard enough to deal with but psycannon explosive damage is literally good vs everything even if my banshees weren't made out of paper. Even when buffed with the Warlocks ranged damage reduction global they seem to still melt under any kind of fire.

Later in the game I don't see any t2 non vehicle options that seem to help, obviously the wraith guard helps a bit but it still takes good damage from psycannon. The t3 eldar tank explodes when touched but so do most vehicles against mid/late tier GK so I cant complain there.

I was told the only answer I had to GK Terms was a seer council, and while they would win on a 1v1 how am I supposed to section off the terms to fight my squad 1v1 to the death, and then what the hell do I do vs paladins D:

Also, when is each hero the best?

*Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't even notice I typo'd that.

[Sturnn]

I am not eldar player but maybe it is worth to consider sth like 2x Guardians, Shuriken Cannon and Rangers as openning? I think it should at least force GK to bigger enegry investment in T1. In T2 maybe warithlord vs infantry and brightlance to counter vehicle is such will take field?

[Batpimp]

man o man brother. Your comments are everywhere.

Please be specific in the help you need.

Are you asking for 1v1? VS IG or GK or both? Which hero?

[Dark Riku]

He's asking help as Eldar VS GK
You have to read through the mistakes and other things:
gaurdsmen=gaurdians (=dire avengers)
inq stormtroopers = Inquisitorial Storm Troopers


Just wanted to comment that banshees are not made out of paper at all. (look through the patchnotes)
You can deal with HI with your power melee banshees or hitting your grenades that do extra damage to HI.
Come T2, if you use the Warlock distort field global and use FoF while your your banshees have their T2 leader,
they will take almost no ranged fire damage.

[egewithin]

Run with your Banshees to tie up Strike Squad. While they do it, shoot down Inq. ST with Guardians. Only problem here is the brother captain sı buy a shruken I guess.

[Sturnn]

man o man brother. Your comments are everywhere.

Hey Mate, I thought that forum is for writing and posting stuff. Is there any problem with it?

Sorry for offtop.

[Crewfinity]

i think he was talking to OP actually.

I've been playing the opposite side of the matchup a lot recently, and it is definitely a really tough fight. GK have a lot of dps in early T1, they arent as powerful in late T1 or early T2, but they ramp up again towards late T2. try to cap a lot early game without fighting too much until you get a shurican out to control the brother captain. i would actually get two tbh. also be careful on fighting strike squads with shees. they can get a lucky special and win sometimes, especially if the GK player uses mind blades early on. once you get to t2, get reapers. they work really well vs GK in my experience.

[Batpimp]

yes the comments of the op are all over the place. So I wanted him to specify his exact problem.

[aodtv]

All over the place = 2 threads for separate topics? One was my issues as IG vs GK, and after i learned how to deal with them there, this thread is more specified as Eldar vs GK. And thank you for letting me know that I typo'd in the OP, fixed it now.

@Crewfinity
Thank you for your PoV from the other side, as someone who is having trouble against one race in particular, its easy to think of them as extremely strong without considering their side of how they see the matchup. And I'll try out shuriken Cannons.

@Batpimp
I haven't played any 1v1's since I posted my post about being new, everyone I see is playing 3v3. I tried hosting some 1v1 games and just never had anyone join.

"...hitting your grenades..."
So this is where my being new shows through the most. Is it not very easy to predict grenades with the squads having to move up? I understand it is a side effect to prevent them from being OP as nades are extremely good vs Infintry so I'll definitely have to work on that.

And as for the exact problem, it seems that vs GK as Eldar I lose pretty hard in the early stages, then I lose gens while replenishing army and fall behind from bleeding / not winning or even trading well enough to keep gens alive. And at the same time, if GK do make it to T3, I don't know what I should work on getting out when they have both terms and paladins. I've gotten suggestions of Seer Council, but obviously seer countil won't beat both squads if their together, and I'm unsure what to support my seer council with when those units are what I'm trying to deal with.

[Atlas]

Another player talking mostly from the GK side here. Also mostly talking 1v1 here.

In T1 as Warlock(WL), the GK player has a tough time dealing with Banshees+Channeling Runes. The current meta right now heavily favors the Blessed Aegis over the Mantle of Terra and without canticle the only sources of knockback in the GK army is to land a special on the WL or use IST nades. If they go for the latter, you can get some amazing bleed off of ISTs with said banshee squad.

GK might be inclined to go for a Rhino to prevent that sort of thing but with banshees being amazing power melee, the chances are low in T1. You'll more likely see either Purgs or Inties, with a slight leaning towards Purgs.

For the WL, MWB + Champion's Robe is going to wreck pretty much everything in T1.5. Purgs can slow him but with the leap in you should be able to handle it. Overall, for the entirety of T1 you're probably looking at a very high power cost, but one that you can take advantage of.

T2, and specifically late T2 is where GK start really ramping up in this matchup. The WL and Banshees can't do as much work now so you'll have to rely on more support. LasRhinos are pretty common in this stage as they deal with a Wraithlord well enough while still being able to shuttle ISTs away from banshees. You might want to consider a Falcon now instead of a Wraithlord as the Wraithlord can be kited by the LasRhino and doesn't match up favorably versus a melee GK dread.

The GK dread lacks any ranged AV weapon now so the Falcon can run circles around it. In the event of a Purifier purchase, you can have your banshees still screen from that with WL help and Falcon reinforce. The most likely purchase in my mind would be a Vindicare, so watch out for them.

Other options is to swap out channeling runes for warp throw at this stage if GK goes for a melee blob against the Falcon and have your banshees cap elsewhere since they can solo both ISTs and Strikes. You can then use Warp Throw + DA grenades to put a lot of damage on a blob while having easy repair support.

In typical 1v1 fashion, I wouldn't really consider T3. Seriously think about Dark Reapers/Spiders/Wraithlord now, but pick a max of 2 of those unless the game realllllllyyyyyy drags on. Dark Reapers will destroy half the roster of GK, including their T3 should they somehow decide they want it. Spiders can help catch a very annoying vehivle, such as a LasRhino which can be finished off with Falcon and whatever else AV you got. The Wraithlord should be used as a curbstomp tool if you sense the GK doesn't have any AV or you wiped their Purgs or VA. GK is usually pretty sensitive about how much AV they are playing with but punish them if they skip it.
-------------------

Overall, I do think Eldar has some tough phases in this matchup but it's not unwinnable. I think really the biggest part is controlling the BroCap but with WL MWB you can really hamper his effectiveness early and if you can ride your momentum you should be able to carry it through. Even if you went letter by letter from what I said you'll notice you have room in your T1 as to what exactly you want to do. Banshees are a must imo but otherwise you have room to explore.

Hope that helped.

[Dalakh]

For the WL, MWB + Champion's Robe is going to wreck pretty much everything in T1.5. Purgs can slow him but with the leap in you should be able to handle it. Overall, for the entirety of T1 you're probably looking at a very high power cost, but one that you can take advantage of.

Purgs suppression cancels leaps so you won't be able to leap through anything and since full WL comes at a 65 power cost you might want to skip one squad/upgrade if you don't want to see a dread as you tech up.

BC counters suppression teams as well as GL stormtroopers as well as interceptors. So your best T1 asset will be pretty hard countered and rangers are a dead weight you'll gladly skip since there is no infiltration to deal with. Banshees will get focused unless you heavily support them and attacking strike squads with them is always a toss up because of the crazy specials involved. Best thing to do is running them past the strike squad (with aspect) suppress them as you pass by and go straight for the stormtroopers.

In T2 it gets better, beware of the lasrhino and always get aspect of strenght on your banshees, las rhino can take on both WL and falcon, unless you get warp spiders but you will have to skip dark reapers (your saving grace) then. Upgraded purgations will cause you nightmares and win ranged engagment as well as fuck up your vehicles.

GK are a useless faction anyway so don't bother too much and try your best to have some fun.

[Atlas]

What Dalakh said.

Fair enough on the MWB/Robe combo. Especially with Runes, you might want to skip one wargear.

Thing is that GK can't get ever single option to shut down both shuris and rangers. GL storms lose out on single target dps while interceptors are at risk of getting counter-initiated by banshees.

Banshees vs Strikes are actually slightly favored towards Banshees due to having 5 models that special rather than 3 from strikes and also having a faster special too iirc. Sure it's not 100%, but I'd say it's a pretty stacked coin toss.

Rangers are far from dead weight in this matchup. Just because they no longer have over the top damage doesn't mean they can't effectively harass slow HI units like strikes and purgs. For T1 you can probably look at:

Start DA - > Banshees -> Node -> Gen -> Gen -> Rangers -> MWB ->Channeling Runes -> Shuriken and whatever upgrades you need.

Like I said, a lot of power but you can make it back in the bleed and map control you'll get.

[realself]

I can take out sentinels with a Warlock + 3x Dire Avenger build - that's no longer a problem. I am still having trouble against I.G.

Shuriken setup squads work well in T1. The games seem balanced until I.G. gets to T2 first and counters with a chimera and ogryns. I keep reading how wraithguards are supposed to be great against I.G. but ogryns will just engage them in melee. I have a replay that goes as far as T2.5 at which point I concede.

EDIT:
Torpid has given me some ideas.

Need to cover your wriahtguards with shurikens to suppress those ogs then shoot them with the WG or throw nades on them.
Alternatively you can warp throw them away with good timing, or wait till they are suppressed then warp throw them so they can't dodge it or use ethereal slash from the witchblade of kurnous but honestly immolator is probably better vs ig. It is very strong in t1 vs ig
suppress guardsmen with shuriken then destructor them and immolate them.
It kills them if they do not retreat since they cannot dodge either
Basically is an instant retreat on 2 gm squads
Immolator also helps a lot vs set-up teams and it insta-kills turrets. It is OK vs gens both from the ability and in melee, it gives his melee attack a DoT

[Hefnd Rikir]

I can take out sentinels with a Warlock + 3x Dire Avenger build - that's no longer a problem. I am still having trouble against I.G.

Shuriken setup squads work well in T1. The games seem balanced until I.G. gets to T2 first and counters with a chimera and ogryns. I keep reading how wraithguards are supposed to be great against I.G. but ogryns will just engage them in melee. I have a replay that goes as far as T2.5 at which point I concede.

Thanks for any input

IG versus Eldar is generally pretty hard for IG in general. To counter orgyns, if you have the power, or are going a heavy T2, get dark reapers on top of wraithguard. Dark Reapers will tear through the Orgyns, put having a set up team parked right behind the wraithguard never hurts.

IG can always get manticores and the like, but if all else fails you can have your WG or Fire Dragons put onto Manticore hunting missions, and while on some 1v1 maps, it is almost impossible due to the map sizes, on the larger ones this is very viable.

T3 you can just put Eldritch on top of the vehicles and their is a high chance that the storm will kill the vehicle, and if you can have D-Cannons and WG shooting at the heavier BBs, it will surely die with the Eldritch.

[PhatE]

The GK vs Eldar MU is a really interesting one where if you don't keep the Brother Captain under control then you're looking at a really tough time as Eldar. But GK have just as much trouble vs Eldar if they let banshees run amok since Stormtroopers are like old branch leafs that have been lost all their moisture. It's all about how much air your opponent gives you to breathe and vice versa. Both races have some really nice trickery to use against each other.

Rangers don't really have a place in that MU as far as my experience goes and it's a much better idea to go for shuriken first openings. But that narrows down to stylistic choice, shurikens have historically worked way better than rangers but I've used them numerous times before where they've done some nice things regardless.

The speed of your two starting units are what should really give the advantage as any of the three heroes. The most pesky hero against GK is of course the WSE. There is absolutely no way GK can catch him if the jumps are intelligent as well as enhanced warp generator being ridiculous. All capping squads just get picked off one by one. The warlock is tanky enough to fight pretty much everything in that roster and the farseer is also quite similar in raw power (post upgrades) vs GK.