GK - OP?

[Cyris]

So I've just been yelled at for the 3rd time for playing as GK this week. Apparently they are OP and I'm a jerk for playing them. What's the deal? I've been maining them for 2-3 weeks, and really enjoying how far they came from initial release. But the negative feedback from opposing players is getting to me. I've never had this happen before, to this degree.

And for the record, I don't build Rhinos in T1

In my time playing elite I've mained each race at least once, and have been a Random player for a while. In comparison to the other factions, I don't feel over the top when playing as GK and I don't feel like I'm beating players who are better then me.

So, what do you all think? Are GK OP? If so, what is OP about them (so I can use it more!) Should I stop playing GK till they are "fixed", or trust that playing them more will let other players learn how to counter me?

[Dark Riku]

whenever you win it's OP. whenever you lose it was because the other person was more skilled.
---> Some people's logic.

Just /care and move on ^^

[Vapor]

Their ranged dps is pretty awesome to start off. BC is also pretty great for a tanky commander, Blessed Aegis is super cheap (20 power) and he has maybe the best ranged sidearm to start off. And I guess Dark Excommunication is pretty annoying, though expensive at 175 red... etc etc

Those are just a few of the most common complaints.

But honestly if you're not building rhinos, there's not a huge amount to complain about. You could always just switch to FC then no one will complain... oh wait there's a thread now about storm shield OP

[Crewfinity]

h8trs gonna h8.
you do you

i've been getting my own share of salt for playing GK. mostly a bunch of retribution players who come over, get beat, and then call out GK as being broken

[Batpimp]

nah don't listen to them cyris. On top of whatever they say, is it anyone with more skill than you?

you are a skilled player 1v1, team games or otherwise.

I say ignore it. Nobody credible is gonna call you out.

[Atlas]

GK has a few things that are already getting toned down and they still have a problem with long range av and snaring. Overall, they're just fine. As people have said, haters will hate.

[egewithin]

GK is too powerful in T3 specialy both Termie variants. They just have so much health! If my LC Assault Termies can not tear apart these guys, no one can say they are balanced. Specially Paladins. Their health just can't be dealed with.

[Batpimp]

dark reapers wreck them, so do tzeentch marines, plasma teams, anything that can stun or slow them.

they aren't to be meleed off..you shoot them to make them lose health and finish off with melee.

GK is a melee army don't try to out melee them so smoothly, calmly, quickly.

[Forestradio]

-Blessed Aegis cost increased from 100/20 to 100/25
-Blessed Aegis health regeneration reduced from 0.35 to 0.3
-Brother-Captain Teleporter cost increased from 120/30 to 120/35
-Brother-Captain Teleport cooldown increased from 30 s to 40 s
-Nemesis Force Halberd cost increased from 150/35 to 150/40

-Grey Knight Terminator/Paladin Incinerators removed
-Grey Knight Terminator/Paladin Psycannon dps reduced from 18.03 to 14.43 (whatever it was before the most recent buff)

-Rhino now has HI armor
-Rhino twin-linked Lascannon cost increased from 110/0 to 110/20
-Rhino twin-linked Lascannon AoE reduced from 1 to 0.5

-Vindicare Assassin upkeep increased from 20.4 to 25.5
-Vindicare Assassin Exitus Rounds damage per hit reduced from 190 to 175
-Vindicare Assassin Turbo-penetrator rounds now have the same accuracy modifiers vs infantry as lascannons, beamy deffguns, brightlances, etc do

[Atlas]

So basically everything people complain about is getting nerfed or toned down into something reasonable. Ok, carry on folks. No need to cry into your pillow at night over GK unless you main SM

[Torpid]

-Blessed Aegis cost increased from 100/20 to 100/25
-Blessed Aegis health regeneration reduced from 0.35 to 0.3
-Brother-Captain Teleporter cost increased from 120/30 to 120/35
-Brother-Captain Teleport cooldown increased from 30 s to 40 s
-Nemesis Force Halberd cost increased from 150/35 to 150/40

-Grey Knight Terminator/Paladin Incinerators removed
-Grey Knight Terminator/Paladin Psycannon dps reduced from 18.03 to 14.43 (whatever it was before the most recent buff)

-Rhino now has HI armor
-Rhino twin-linked Lascannon cost increased from 110/0 to 110/20
-Rhino twin-linked Lascannon AoE reduced from 1 to 0.5

-Vindicare Assassin upkeep increased from 20.4 to 25.5
-Vindicare Assassin Exitus Rounds damage per hit reduced from 190 to 175
-Vindicare Assassin Turbo-penetrator rounds now have the same accuracy modifiers vs infantry as lascannons, beamy deffguns, brightlances, etc do

I agree 100% with all of these.

Although I still find purgation cheesy. I would like to see them gain 25% more hp every tier but their psycannon damage be nerfed back a buff.

They also wouldn't need melee resist then either.

I still want to see psychic lash get buffed though. I think y'all just have flesh hook phobia and it makes you judge psychic lash unfairly.

[Adeptus Noobus]

These changes sound reasonable (especially those to the Brother Captain). I am still quite skeptical about Interceptors becoming a T3 unit, essentially robbing GK of the only AV snare they had (before T3 that is).

EDIT: The DE discussion is topic of another thread. Didn't see that earlier.

[Cyris]

Thanks for the comments guys, I got put in a bad funk. <3

As for that changelist, both potency and cost nerfs on a bunch of stuff. I hope the rest of the list is better to some of GKs more lackluster aspects. The VA in particular surprises me though. He's noticeably weaker and more vulnerable then a Zoan (of about the same cost before upgrades), and is getting nerfs that make him weaker and more micro intensive? We'll see!

[Torpid]

Thanks for the comments guys, I got put in a bad funk. <3

As for that changelist, both potency and cost nerfs on a bunch of stuff. I hope the rest of the list is better to some of GKs more lackluster aspects. The VA in particular surprises me though. He's noticeably weaker and more vulnerable then a Zoan (of about the same cost before upgrades), and is getting nerfs that make him weaker and more micro intensive? We'll see!

And the zoan deserves many nerfs too! Except the zoan doesn't kill vehicles in a couple of shots all on his lonesome, nor does it bleed models with every shot.

[Forestradio]

[Sturnn]

As SM in team gamez I found in really hard to play vs GK. Good GK players just run at you with BC, SS and 2x stroopers. BC ties up tacs and SS plus troopers will outshoot my Hero and scouts. But I think its my lack of skull rather than GK OP. Any idea how to stop it? Only thing that I would complain about is Storm troopers ds - IMO its too high as starting, caping unit.

[Cheekie Monkie]

I still want to see psychic lash get buffed though. I think y'all just have flesh hook phobia and it makes you judge psychic lash unfairly.

I'm not against it because it is or will be batshit OP insane. I'm saying that like flesh hook, it'll be batshit annoying (as if GK lacks trolling potential already)

If it absolutely has to stay as flesh hook 2.0 then I'd say a buff is warranted, probably in the cast time department. Personally I'd rather have it redesigned, perhaps into a Hammer of the Witches 2.0 as it'll help immensely against tanky commanders, which GK struggles against anyway.

[Dark Riku]

Are those actual patch notes Forest? Or stuff you would do?

[Dalakh]

And the zoan deserves many nerfs too! Except the zoan doesn't kill vehicles in a couple of shots all on his lonesome, nor does it bleed models with every shot.

Not sure if about VA or lasrhino...

[Forestradio]

Are those actual patch notes Forest? Or stuff you would do?

Things I'd do.

[MaxPower]

I don't like em because they do indeed have atleast a very potent if not op global, namely the "Dark Excummincation".
So I wont complain that much if that global actually gets rebalanced (like targetable area instead of effecting everyone on the enemy team).

Well and the fact that GK can just spam Terminators and Paladins (but I guess that is their schtick...sadly).

[Superhooper01]

Really like those points forest and max also makes a fair point would like to see these comments looked at tbh

[Triple d]

Are gk op?

No.

I generally play with friends, and I generally play the imperial guard...because every time I bust out my Grey knights my friends cry "OP".

The reason they cry op though is that they rarely play against them otherwise, and don't Understand how to counter them. It is worth mentioning they played retribution for a much longer period then I have, and they don't consider any other faction over powered even if they lose horribly, because the other factions are something they are used to and know how to deal with later.

It doesn't matter how often I mention the difficulty when dealing with vehicles, they are so used to vanilla retribution and can't wrap the new faction around their heads. They don't have difficulty with add ons like raptors (in fact one of them is a chaos main and can't seem to heap enough praise on the raptor addition)
they just can't process the new faction. It doesn't help that (aassuming the codex is accurate) Grey knights are seen in less then 2% if games. I can't say I've ever played against Grey knights.

In short it is the mere fact that few in the general community see Grey knights, and this means that there are fewer people who understand how to counter them, which leads to haters hating with their "OOP"

[HandSome SoddiNg]

GK are not even easy,bunch of whiners for crying OP . Its just the other player played the faction better then you & knows wot's he doing

[DarnedDragoon]

When no one seems to know how to counter them or have builds that are effective against them then there is no question that they are op. That is exactly why people like to play them so much. They kick ass! The same reason why people like to use eldar and chaos nukes on peoples' bases because it kicks ass.

[Crewfinity]

players not having the knowledge/experience to counter a build does not equate to the build being OP. rather, it means that other players need to experiment more with builds to counter GK instead of whining about them being OP.

GK have plenty of weaknesses, newer players simply aren't familiar enough with them to exploit them.

[Atlas]

players not having the knowledge/experience to counter a build does not equate to the build being OP. rather, it means that other players need to experiment more with builds to counter GK instead of whining about them being OP.

GK have plenty of weaknesses, newer players simply aren't familiar enough with them to exploit them.

What are GK's weaknesses to IG

I think I found a new build that I like vs GK, but very much this post. People need to grind out games vs them in order to really figure out their respective matchup. Problem is there isn't many good gk players out there right now so GK looks unstoppable atm.

[Crewfinity]

triple guardsmen is a good build to start off with. the plasma damage in T2 really hurts against strike squad and purgations. GK are good at big pushes but suffer a little more in drawn out engagements, whereas IG shines in battles of attrition. protecting a chimera is imperative, maybe the mobile base is a good way to go? if you can make it to T3 lemans are really good vs GK, they're so freaking durable.

[Atlas]

I'm not telling you my super secret build but it does have trip GM

[Cyris]

I am also a convert to the 3 GM build, especially against factions who get solid ranged plasma damage in T2 (sentinel becomes a frustrating liability and micro sink). HWT next then another T1.5 unit to taste into T2 Chimera and plasma guns.

3 GM + 2 Sarge + HWT is only 815/30. This price gets you 5 units that can cap, a lot of room for gens and the option to add wargear on your commander of choice and picking up a cata, spotter or hwt as desired (or even throw in a sentinal for super power light). Use the GM without Sarge as a ninja-capper or throw a flamer on him if he roams up to a gen farm. If GK (or anyone you are fighting) goes heavy T1, deff pick up that 6th unit. Come T2, Chimera is going to have so much happy infantry to support!

This build is not only strong now, but is going to get nice buffs in the next patch with lower Commisar cost, lower GM upkeep and catas that can fire on the move! I've been playing IG when I can't play GK (to avoid mirror in 1v1, or if a teamate is already GK) in preparation for the patch