Chaos dread a little underpowered..?

[The great Cornholio]

iam really starting to think the chaos dread is not worth getting most of the time.. it costs almost the same as eldar/marine dread and with less health no melee ress and an autocanon that is pretty weak.

sure you can upgrade it but do i really have to upgrade a dread and spend 30 power more just to get somthing that dosent suck?

just seems pretty useless in vanilla with that autocanon... and setup team with autocanon could kill that thing in 1v1 pretty fast.
so any ideas how to fix this? maybe lower the price or give that autocanon a boost?

[Nurland]

I don't think lowering the cost is an option (unless the upgrade costs go up). I do think that vanilla Chaos Dread is pretty OK atm.

[Slaaneshi Cacophony]

Chaos Dreadnought is a decent walker for what you get at base price. I think most people tend to forget that getting a walker out before your opponent has teched or has any AV is a huge deterrent to regular infantry or light vehicles. The autocannon and hull bolters are pretty good at shredding up regular infantry, warding off heavy infantry or even hitting transports.

You get respectable ranged and melee damage right out of the gate and have the option to get a missile launcher that does absolutely insane damage to infantry and good damage to vehicles or one of the best melee walkers in the game with the claw upgrade along with an ability that gives it 50% incoming damage reduction and 30% more damage that can be activated every 30 seconds.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

It counters TB fexes/Ven dread & other Melee walkers?

[The great Cornholio]

calling it decent is perhaps okay.. but still for that price you can get 2 plauge marine units that will kill that thing fast.
and that tzeench upgrade is good av but nothing special vs infatry. maybe its just me but i think the price should be more like 400/100

[Cheekie Monkie]

If we're simply focussing on the vanilla dread, then there's been a number of threads in the past which indicate that it might be a tad underpowered, barring the amazing upgrades. However, I'd advocate against a price decrease as it'll blur the line with the BC as the go to cheap vehicle option - not to mention that a walker is still a walker and demands a significant investment from your opponent to counter.

In vanilla form, it seems like a very jack of all trades vehicle - able to switch between long range fire support, light AV, as well as tying stuff up and doing some decent melee according to the demands of the situation, especially with worship support. With this in mind, any warranted buffs should not necessarily make it more killy, but could further expand its versatility e.g. give it a weak melee resist <50% (though Chaos might not need more anti melee toys).

Just an idea. An easier solution would just be to give it more dakka (perhaps with reduced splash to compensate).

[Dark Riku]

Chaos dread a little underpowered..?

No.

calling it decent is perhaps okay.. but still for that price you can get 2 plauge marine units that will kill that thing fast. and that tzeench upgrade is good av but nothing special vs infatry. maybe its just me but i think the price should be more like 400/100

900/80 does not equal 410/120! Tzeench is amazing versus everything, due to the many rockets and splash that thing hits ridiculously hard. Don't even get me started on the barrage ability.

[Torpid]

I think the vanilla form is underpowered, I think the upgrades are both overpowered.

The damage resistance n the Kdread under blood rage is too much I would nerf it. It's just way too hard to kill now, especially in 1v1 and especially as a sorceror.

The tzeentch dread's missles have too much splash - they do way too much work vs infantry and the ability is a piss-take. Instantly dropping 70% of banshee's health and suppressing them. I thought this was meant to be a ranged walker that's vulnerable to heavy melee? Not at all. Nerf it, remove the DOT or the suppression, it shouldn't have both.

Regarding the vanilla dread I most certainly don't think it should get a weak melee resist. Why on Earth would you ever get a bloodcrusher then? The BC doesn't do splash as it is so the normal dreadnought would be just about as effective in melee while being much better at range and having far more versatility with regards to scaling. 73dps on the dread vs 93. Granted the dread lacks a charge and the daemonic roar but then again the dreadnought's special attack in melee is tremendously better than the bloodcrushers.

I think increasing the damage of the hull bolters on the chaos dreadnought would be the best option to buff it suitably. That way it's not better in terms of AV but is better for bleeding enemy infantry models at ranged (and still not as strong as the AC SM dread) and it also helps chaos focus down single entities too.

[egewithin]

Not gonna write too long cause you already dicussed many things.

1) Chaos Dreadnought in vanilla form is not weak but just not as good as other vehicles at starting. 120 power can be decreased to 110 if no buff come to C.Dread.

2) Autocannon is a free ranged anti-everything weapon and this can not be unseen. The damage however is just not satisfying. A little, just a little buff could be good.

3) Having melee resistance doesn't fit with Chaos IMO. Chaos units are always weaker about health but much better about damage and always wilder in melee combat. Also, cheaper. Let it stay in that way.

[Cyris]

I'm with firatwithin, including a potential small Power discount.

I often leave the dread in vanilla state for a while, if not for it's full life. It could stand to have some small damage buffs, but I don't think they are necessary. If anything, the T-dread should get a small nerf to it's AI capabilities.

I'd vote against buffing the hull gun though, only cause that weapon gives horrible feedback. It's like invisible mind bullets! Make the projectile/muzzle flash FX more noticeable, and I'd be all for increasing it's damage.

[Caeltos]

We tried to make the hull mounted stormbolters actually have sound effects and I believe, more noticeable projectiles. The probelm was, that we somehow got echoes of the other weapon, including the Tzeentch one. So it turned out super odd, and we had to revert- because nobody would be able to stand the awful sound.

[Cyris]

Aww, that sucks! Nice to know it was attempted. Would it be possible to just change the projectiles without editing the sound (assuming that was causing the bug). It'd be less then ideal, but still better then current.

[ShowMeMagik]

We tried to make the hull mounted stormbolters actually have sound effects and I believe, more noticeable projectiles. The probelm was, that we somehow got echoes of the other weapon, including the Tzeentch one. So it turned out super odd, and we had to revert- because nobody would be able to stand the awful sound.

SO you have inadvertantly created a mark of Slaanesh dreadnought?

[Myrdal]

I'd vote against buffing the hull gun though, only cause that weapon gives horrible feedback. It's like invisible mind bullets! Make the projectile/muzzle flash FX more noticeable, and I'd be all for increasing it's damage.

Done.

The damage resistance n the Kdread under blood rage is too much I would nerf it. It's just way too hard to kill now, especially in 1v1 and especially as a sorceror.

Did you by any chance determine if they stack to 70% or 90% melee resistance? Valid point either way but knowing the difference would be important before any potential nerfs.
The tdread needs some drastic changes though imo. Rather than adjusting the splash values I'd like to change the damage type to something like 0.15-0.3 mod to infantry and making the regular rockets pretty much useless vs them. I'd leave the AI potency on the stormbolters and the ability but otherwise missile launcher should be dedicated AV.

[Torpid]

Did you by any chance determine if they stack to 70% or 90% melee resistance? Valid point either way but knowing the difference would be important before any potential nerfs.
The tdread needs some drastic changes though imo. Rather than adjusting the splash values I'd like to change the damage type to something like 0.15-0.3 mod to infantry and making the regular rockets pretty much useless vs them. I'd leave the AI potency on the stormbolters and the ability but otherwise missile launcher should be dedicated AV.

Seems more like 70%, but nonetheless nothing can stand near that thing anyway, especially when there'er havocs around. It's worse with a CS since he can just drop chains and then use blood-rage on the Kdread and its an instant retreat on anything, unfortunately including jump squads since chains prevents jumping (which makes ASM quite poor vs CS, yet sigil makes devs poor vs CS, CS OP).

When is flesh over steel going to get buffed back to a proper length now that it no longer tracks and dreads have melee resistance? It is so so so bad atm.

[Myrdal]

When is flesh over steel going to get buffed back to a proper length now that it no longer tracks and dreads have melee resistance? It is so so so bad atm.

FoS got buffs which you may not have accounted for, first the range is 8m now making it a lot more reliable even on faster vehicles and second FoS now reduces the rotation rate by 80%. I think a 5s duration is fair especially when the FC has such an easy time landing it and often there're very few countermeasures to stop him. I'd rather not see him effortlessly and single-handedly take out tanks because he's got it rough with the new melee resist dreads which was introduced precisely to help them in these situations.