Dawn of War Codex

I'm don't post on forums often, but I've been wanting to share some thoughts about Eldar - mainly the Farseer - for some time and with the upcoming patch I figured it's a good time. I guess I should point out that I've been playing Eldar (Farseer) for a long time (on and off since DoW2 first came out), but I'm in no way an expert. Also, I only play 2v2s or 3v3s, so my reasoning is from that perspective. Anyway, it's just a few suggestions for minor changes... for your consideration of course.

• Rune armor. Gives the Farseer 125 energy. Seems a bit high, energy pretty much stops being a concern with that armor. Maybe reduce it to something like 70 energy? As for Psychic Storm I think should do as much dps as it does, but last a slightly shorter time - would help both units damaged by it and the Farseer herself.

• Spirit stones. Should give less extra XP when reviving. Not sure what the bonus is now, but it should be maybe 75% of that.

• Ghost Helm's Mind War. Is it supposed to disable the Farseer for a second or two when using it? If not, it needs to be fixed. If yes, then there really has to be a better animation for it or an indicator telling you this is going on (and a description added to the ability).

• Dire Avenger energy shields. How about limiting their number (per DA squad) or give them a short cooldown, so you can't put them up everywhere all the time. It would force you to think about how you use them and not just spew them up all over the place.

• Dire Avenger Exarch shouldn't give wraithsight (do they still do that?).

• Webway gates. I said this in another thread: (1) max 3-4 gates or increased pop, (2) increase cooldown for building gates, and/or (3) only Eldar should be able to use the gates and their abilities. But in return, maybe reduce build time slightly.

• Rangers. Are they in a good place? I know they're getting a small buff the next patch but I don't see them working very well in most match-ups. And now that DAs are becoming detectors (which is good) they'll be even less useful. I'd like to see *slightly* higher dps or *slightly* shorter set-ups and/or tear-downs.

• Falcon. I'd prefer it if the energy field upgrade only reduced speed with 0.5, but the cost could be increased or the shield be less effective. Also, Falcon weapon upgrade? Okay, I guess it's not really needed but it would be awesome and a bit of fun for late game. Starcannon anyone?

• Seer council upgrade? I'm not saying they're not good (and they will be even better with the next patch), but I've always felt like a group of psykers should have at least one activated ability of some sort. Not a big deal either way, but just something to think about.

I was actually thinking about seer council after I watched a recent cast where I lost to a warboss and then an idea popped into my head. I was thinking that something very easy to implement would be to give SC an ability to activate ranged knockback on their merciless witch blades, just like the warlock. It could last for as short as 10 seconds for all I care, but it would definitely be an excellent late game VP or control tool.

Lesten wrote:• Dire Avenger energy shields. How about limiting their number (per DA squad) or give them a short cooldown, so you can't put them up everywhere all the time. It would force you to think about how you use them and not just spew them up all over the place.

While I do think that they're quite spammy at the moment (especially in the later stages of the game where DAs have levelled up properly), DA play will shift towards a more energy shield reliant play in the next patch due to the fact that battle equipment will no longer give extra health - they might NEED to be able to spam shields.

Tex wrote:I was actually thinking about seer council after I watched a recent cast where I lost to a warboss and then an idea popped into my head. I was thinking that something very easy to implement would be to give SC an ability to activate ranged knockback on their merciless witch blades, just like the warlock. It could last for as short as 10 seconds for all I care, but it would definitely be an excellent late game VP or control tool.

With all the models the SC has, you could lock down a whole squad with that.

Lesten wrote:• Rune armor. Gives the Farseer 125 energy.

Wait a sec! Didn't this already changed? Did you checked these informations from Dawn of War wiki? Because they are according to retail (vanillia) DoW 2 Retrubition. And even if you checked the Elite topic in the DoW wiki, they are old informations.

10 secs for a constant KB ability is anything but short Tex. Combine that with 6 different models firing, hello no retreat. That sounds amazingly OP

Seers are only 5 not 6, but that knock back idea is not ideal anyway.

I've always wanted an ethereal slash ability for them, but to this day they have remained a bad unit and it seems none wants to change that.

Ghost helm does disable the FS for a moment, especially if she has to rotate to lock down her target.

Psychic storm with better DPS would be too good. It's quite fine atm.

To limitate the number of shields per DA squad sounds meh, since they exist to create shields, especially in the late game, plus given
shield energy cost you rather see one squad put down more than 2 shields at a time.

Asmon wrote:I've always wanted an ethereal slash ability for them, but to this day they have remained a bad unit and it seems none wants to change that.

Probably because they are not a bad unit

Yeah your right, 10 seconds would be a bit long I guess. Its just that situations in late T3 are so much different than the standard KB situations we are so used to.

Who knows I guess.

What I do know though, is that when it comes to other elite melee squads, they get abilities that make them go ape shit.

nobs - frenzy
ATs - teleport, unshakeable
genestealers - adrenal rush
Chosen Plague marines - nurgle's rot, stacking DOT
etc etc

Seer council? Fleet of foot that gives an 80% ranged damage reduction and a 40% melee damage reduction. They also have an awesome aura that increases energy regeneration and they reduce courage damage by 50%... They do cause knockback if they jump into combat though. This one is pretty awesome.

Asmon most certainly has a point.

Seer Council seems like a niche unit to me and I hardly get it when there are other options out there for eldar t3. And I do feel that they should do a little extra. Not by an ability or boost in starts. I am thinking a modifier on melee hit. The target squad of the Seer Council whom are getting hit in melee cant use any abilities for like 2 seconds. The squad will still be kinda niche but will have another thing going for it. If Seer Council melee nobs before they use frenzy then they wont be able as they are getting knocked around, although idk why Id get SC vs Orks but hey...

There are very few scenarios where I'de go for seers over an avatar or a fire prism. I can think of two off the top of my head - vs a KN or when I'm playing FS.

Lesten,

I have to say this all sounds very well thought out, good job. I do like some of your ideas as well. For me i have also always felt like the seer councle should have an ability as it is a all psyker squad. In the Original DoW the seer council had Embolden or something like that. It would be cool to see them have it for suppression resistance.

The farseer is supposed to be the badest psyker around so the energy she has kinda seems right to me. she needs to be pumping out ability's as that is the Eldar way.

As for mind war, well i agree there should be a visual indicator like maybe some lightning running between the FS and the person she is having her mind war with. maybe the same lighting used when she dose a sync kill, you know the one where she picks a model off the ground and she makes them explode.

The falcon having a weapon upgrade would be awesome!

Dunno if the model we currently have would allow a weapon upgrade on the falcon, but I suppose its possible that the modders here might be able to slap something together.

I kind of like the idea of a weapon upgrade for the falcon, but it would have to be carefully implemented to make sure that it occupies a different niche than the fire prism. I think if it were to get a weapon upgrade it would definitely have to be exclusive with the shield upgrade(both would be OP, having to choose would open up different playstyles with the falcon).

The Falcon is just fine as is. It fills the very important purpose of driving my fire dragons closer and in T3 it only gets better.

IIRC Falcon already have a bunch of AI/AV weapons, but with low dps.

Maybe an upgrade which increases the DPS of the weapons but you can't buy the shield in T3?

I would just go ahead and give EVERY transport in the game a cool function in T3. This is the reward for preserving them. The falcon is the only transport that never loses its relevance even in T3 due to its upgrade and decent weaponry. It does not need any additional features. Other transports do.

A melee knockback for seer council, like a less damaging ethereal slash, would be pretty sweet. Or, as Tex suggested, a ranged stance knockback (once on activation would do, like a grenade barrage but all "psychicy" and require line of sight). I don't get SC very often but when I do it would be nice with something to help them fulfill their role, whatever that is. Of course, they're working pretty well as they are, they're just not particularly fun.

Cheekie Monkie wrote:While I do think that they're quite spammy at the moment (especially in the later stages of the game where DAs have levelled up properly), DA play will shift towards a more energy shield reliant play in the next patch due to the fact that battle equipment will no longer give extra health - they might NEED to be able to spam shields.

I agree, though I find it unfortunate that they will be even more reliant on spamming shields.

firatwithin wrote:

Lesten wrote:• Rune armor. Gives the Farseer 125 energy.

Wait a sec! Didn't this already changed? Did you checked these informations from Dawn of War wiki? Because they are according to retail (vanillia) DoW 2 Retrubition. And even if you checked the Elite topic in the DoW wiki, they are old informations.

Just checked in game. It's still 125.

Asmon wrote:Psychic storm with better DPS would be too good. It's quite fine atm.

I agree that higher DPS would be too good. But I wasn't suggesting better DPS, I was suggesting the same DPS over a shorter time - so less total damage. Might allow some squads to tank the damage (now, for weaker squads, it's just instant retreat or they risk wiping), and it would be less suicidal for the Farseer to use the ability too.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:IIRC Falcon already have a bunch of AI/AV weapons, but with low dps.

Maybe an upgrade which increases the DPS of the weapons but you can't buy the shield in T3?

It would need to be a pretty bad-ass weapon upgrade if it was to compete with the energy shield. But yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to it.
And I kind of agree with everyone that the Falcon doesn't really need a weapon upgrade. A man can dream though, a man can dream... Was just a suggestion that would be fun to see implemented, and I think it could work. But not a big deal either way.
Can't comment on other transports since I haven't played other factions enough.

Tex wrote:ATs - teleport, unshakeable

Tex, what the hell is unshakeable? Never heard of it. Unless you mean their weapon knockback immunity based on them being terminators?

That and suppression

My main complaint about the Falcon is that its AV weapon is bugged so it can't hit other transports when they have units inside.
It's like having a razorback for a much higher price and with no smoke grenade, whereas it's supposed to be the best transport.
I'm not sure what can be done about it though. I even wouldn't mind if the AV weapon got removed for a lower production cost.

lolzarz wrote:

Tex wrote:ATs - teleport, unshakeable

Tex, what the hell is unshakeable? Never heard of it. Unless you mean their weapon knockback immunity based on them being terminators?

You answered your own question bud

Tex wrote:

lolzarz wrote:

Tex wrote:ATs - teleport, unshakeable

Tex, what the hell is unshakeable? Never heard of it. Unless you mean their weapon knockback immunity based on them being terminators?

You answered your own question bud

I thought that came with being large infantry, given that terminators are the only unit in the game classified as such.

Unshakeable isn't just a last stand thing? :S

FiSH wrote:My main complaint about the Falcon is that its AV weapon is bugged so it can't hit other transports when they have units inside.

That bug was fixed. Unless it sneaked back in somehow.

FiSH wrote:I'm not sure what can be done about it though. I even wouldn't mind if the AV weapon got removed for a lower production cost.

Making all transports the same is not a good direction to go imo. It's good as it is and has that awesome T3 scaling potential.
It also gets a free new ability in the next patch ... so yeah.

Dark Riku wrote:

FiSH wrote:My main complaint about the Falcon is that its AV weapon is bugged so it can't hit other transports when they have units inside.

That bug was fixed. Unless it sneaked back in somehow.

FiSH wrote:I'm not sure what can be done about it though. I even wouldn't mind if the AV weapon got removed for a lower production cost.

Making all transports the same is not a good direction to go imo. It's good as it is and has that awesome T3 scaling potential.
It also gets a free new ability in the next patch ... so yeah.

Has this bug been fixed in the upcoming patch? I was playing vs. Crewfinity's GK in the current version, and my Falcon was doing no damage to his rhino. I don't recall if he had SHI or vehicle armor at the time, btw.

As long as the bug is fixed, you can obviously ignore my suggestion (as making all units the same is silly, of course).

Toilailee wrote:I thought that came with being large infantry, given that terminators are the only unit in the game classified as such.

Unshakeable isn't just a last stand thing? :S

What about Brother Captain, Terminator Librarian, Hive Tyrant, Chaos Lord and Terminator Force Commander? They are all medium size (BroCap and Terminator Librarian are small) infantry. I guess you could argue that they are commanders, therefore making them exempt but yes, Unshakable is not just a last stand thing.

Kentation wrote:

Toilailee wrote:I thought that came with being large infantry, given that terminators are the only unit in the game classified as such.

Unshakeable isn't just a last stand thing? :S

What about Brother Captain, Terminator Librarian, Hive Tyrant, Chaos Lord and Terminator Force Commander? They are all medium size (BroCap and Terminator Librarian are small) infantry. I guess you could argue that they are commanders, therefore making them exempt but yes, Unshakable is not just a last stand thing.

rite

Dark Riku wrote:

FiSH wrote:My main complaint about the Falcon is that its AV weapon is bugged so it can't hit other transports when they have units inside.

That bug was fixed. Unless it sneaked back in somehow.

No the bug is not fixed. We were told so but it actually still arises.

Asmon wrote:No the bug is not fixed. We were told so but it actually still arises.

You guys are correct, my bad. Next patch it should be fixed though