Dawn of War Codex

I feel the High Powered Shot (HPS) ability could use a cooldown reduction from 50 seconds to 40 seconds and energy cost reduction from 60 to 40.

First off it gives the Master Crafted Bolter (MCB) more sustainability into tier 2. As it stands right now the MCB gives the TM good damage and the HPS has good range. Unfortunately you cant use it enough to be viable into tier 2, there just better/more-flexible options. It costs the most energy out of all other TM abilities and shares the longest cooldown timer with Orb of the Omnissiah.

Secondly the MCB costs as much power (30 power) as it would to buy a setup team or turret, which both provides constant suppression, while the HPS does not. Being so expensive if you decided to purchase the MCB that means your giving up an extra unit like another devastator squad, as opposed to having two devastators squads you now have one, in order to not fall behind in tech level. This means you're relying on this wargear as much as you would another squad. I think with its current cooldown timer and energy cost the MCB/HPS is unreliable.

Thirdly compared to other heroes wargear costs (Power, Energy, or Cooldown) the MCB/HPS is unbalanced. For example the Apothecary's (APO) Purification Vials (PV) has a cost of only 25 power, to use it only costs 25 energy, and its cooldown timer is 10 seconds faster than the HPS making the PV more likely to be used twice in one engagement. At the same time with its low energy cost this allows the APO to use more abilities in one engagement which is important in tier 2. Similarly, the Warp Spider Exarch's (WSE) Improved Targeters wargear, which has the same cost as the MCB, provides a passive increase to WSE's weapon range to 45 making the WSE now able to out range the TM without using energy. Combine this with its teleport ability, which only cost 30 energy to use with a 10 second cooldown, the WSE can easily kite around the TM if he tries to move closer. Now the HPS can reach the WSE but it cannot prevent the WSE from teleporting away.

Now I would like to open this up for discussion and further debate in order to determine if the MCB or the HPS needs to be changed/buffed or left as is. I only ask that people follow the Forums' seemingly only rule:

Lulgrim wrote:Forum rules

1. Don't be a dick.
2. If rule 1 isn't a sufficient guideline for you, this is probably not your place.

Lulgrim
Site Admin

Comparing a grenade and a bolter is not a compare that I really want to be. How am I supposed to balance them together?

You might be right about prize, but you can not ignore nastyness of the mobile supperession ability.(HPS) Soooo IMO it deserves the energy cost.

Personally I'de just rather give it a cost reduction tbh. It would be rather obnoxious with less CD and stuff but it really is very overpriced atm at 30 power.

Torpid wrote:Personally I'de just rather give it a cost reduction tbh. It would be rather obnoxious with less CD and stuff but it really is very overpriced atm at 30 power.

Would it be obnoxious if the CD was only reduced by 10 seconds? If the worst thing someone says about ability is that it is obnoxious I think that means it is a pretty good ability. I mean the MCB is not supposed to shoot confetti and rainbows at the enemy so that they feel better it's intended to give more range damage and counter melee squads.

See I don't know about reducing the power cost would be a good thing, because frankly you don't need the MCB it's just another option, in some cases a better option, than using another setup team. Plus lets not forget that the TM has Bionics wargear which costs 20 power. Lessening the cost of the MCB doesn't fix the fact that it becomes more unreliable in tier 2, it just makes it less expensive to replace.

firatwithin wrote:Comparing a grenade and a bolter is not a compare that I really want to be. How am I supposed to balance them together?

You might be right about prize, but you can not ignore nastyness of the mobile supperession ability.(HPS) Soooo IMO it deserves the energy cost.

I'm not intending to compare a grenade to a bolter (at least not their damage or area of effect) I am comparing the cost of each item, their abilities as well their reliability in higher tiers.

Give it full damage on retreat like flesh hook, and make it the TM's starting ability. Oh wait, that's OP...

Forestradio wrote:Give it full damage on retreat like flesh hook, and make it the TM's starting ability. Oh wait, that's OP...

Well if it's op why did you suggest it? The TM already has starting abilities. He can build turrets, relay beacon, and repair. I really think a CD and energy reduction is the answer and that's it. The problem with making MCB the TM's default wargear is that yes the damage he would do and the long range suppression would be over powered in the first engagement and that is coming from player who exclusively plays TM. The Lictor Alpha starts with Flesh Hook because he is an assassin commander that doesn't have any other ranged weapons where as the TM is a utility commander.

What else are you using your TM's energy for in T1? Bionics? You can argue for 25 power imo but I don't think energy is that big of a deal.

Atlas wrote:What else are you using your TM's energy for in T1? Bionics? You can argue for 25 power imo but I don't think energy is that big of a deal.

Energy is a very big deal in T2 and that's what I'm saying the TM needs energy for its other upgrades and HPS takes too much to be viable in tier 2. This shouldn't be the case, you should be able to hold onto your T1 upgrade that cost you 30 power if the situation permits. For example Tier 2 against eldar, orks, or tyrnids and having the ability to control their now upgraded melee squads without switching to the Axe of the Mechanicum or deciding to dedicate another unit to melee control. You spent that 30 power it should still be useful to you and you should be focusing on buying more units or other upgrades.

DarnedDragoon wrote:

Forestradio wrote:Give it full damage on retreat like flesh hook, and make it the TM's starting ability. Oh wait, that's OP...

Well if it's op why did you suggest it? The TM already has starting abilities. He can build turrets, relay beacon, and repair. I really think a CD and energy reduction is the answer and that's it. The problem with making MCB the TM's default wargear is that yes the damage he would do and the long range suppression would be over powered in the first engagement and that is coming from player who exclusively plays TM. The Lictor Alpha starts with Flesh Hook because he is an assassin commander that doesn't have any other ranged weapons where as the TM is a utility commander.

You shouldn't take forests's posts too seriously. A Lictor Alpha once killed his favorite pet and since then he's been dragging it into every balance discussion he can find.

OT: I agree with Torpid, I think all this wargear needs is a price reduction.

DarnedDragoon wrote:

Forestradio wrote:Give it full damage on retreat like flesh hook, and make it the TM's starting ability. Oh wait, that's OP...

Well if it's op why did you suggest it? The TM already has starting abilities. He can build turrets, relay beacon, and repair. I really think a CD and energy reduction is the answer and that's it. The problem with making MCB the TM's default wargear is that yes the damage he would do and the long range suppression would be over powered in the first engagement and that is coming from player who exclusively plays TM. The Lictor Alpha starts with Flesh Hook because he is an assassin commander that doesn't have any other ranged weapons where as the TM is a utility commander.

Beaten by Hiveminion but I think I got this jibe at everyones favourite opponent hero, the infamous LA. He is just joking mate

Atlas wrote:What else are you using your TM's energy for in T1?

DarnedDragoon wrote:Well if it's op why did you suggest it?

So I can stack high powered shot with plasma overcharge for trolling levels over 9000 ofc

On a serious note, this wargear is a bit underwhelming for 30 power, as others have said a small price reduction or a small drop in energy/cooldown on the ability would be fine.

So most of you agree that the MCB needs at least a cost reduction. How do we get this information to the right people in order to have these changes implemented before next patch?

We don't.
Caeltos sees all.
If he agrees then he might change it, although I woulfnt expect it in this next patch since the changelog seems to be finalized.

I agree with changing its power cost to 25 and with reducing the amount of energy you need to use the ability. I think both these things can be changed at the same time, not just one or the other. The weapon only gives an awesome ability, DPS isn't changed drastically. If it changed to something like 45+ I would not agree. How do you feel about that, by the way?

Sounds good to me, i just want to use the MCB not abuse it.

Sub_Zero wrote:I agree with changing its power cost to 25 and with reducing the amount of energy you need to use the ability. I think both these things can be changed at the same time, not just one or the other. The weapon only gives an awesome ability, DPS isn't changed drastically. If it changed to something like 45+ I would not agree. How do you feel about that, by the way?

+1

Could the suppression maybe be changed to a snare? It would finally give at least one SM commander the ability to snare the Brother-Captain. Every other faction has access to a snare or something of the sort to halt the BC at least for a couple of seconds:

Trippa Shot
Mind War
Bile Spewer
Crippling Poison
Entangling Web
Hammer of the Witches
etc.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:Could the suppression maybe be changed to a snare? It would finally give at least one SM commander the ability to snare the Brother-Captain. Every other faction has access to a snare or something of the sort to halt the BC at least for a couple of seconds:

Trippa Shot
Mind War
Bile Spewer
Crippling Poison
Entangling Web
Hammer of the Witches
etc.

Nope. Mindwar also uses the supression mechanic *tear slowly rolling down the Farseers cheek* but I am with you, lets change both those things.^^