Dawn of War Codex

This unit fits well in T1 and is not so useful in other tiers. It only preserves its relevance in certain situations or mostly because of the upgrade which makes this unit quite good against vehicles and fearsome against infantry when the models of a certain unit stand really close to each other (that painful splash damage).

Unlike noise marines (why are they still in T1?) they have their damage output spread out between the models. If one dies there goes 1/3 of the squad's damage output. Unlike noise marines (seriously though?) they lose to setup teams and don't disable ranged units right away.

Due to lack of ranged anti-HI options purgation squads fare well against ranged units in T1 even if they are not as good as noise marines (who perform well in their default state even in T2-T3). What do we have in T2? All ranged units become stronger and some of them get dedicated anti-HI options. Purgation squads do not receive any health buff or range increase, their damage output is slightly increased. What would make me want to buy them strictly for their default form in T2? When I get this option, my opponent gets an artillery piece (400 req for purgation vs 400 req for pdevs as an example). If I want AV from this unit I need to get it on the field and THEN only upgrade it. It doesn't feel right.

Moreover by removing this unit from T1 you basically remove anything that can suppress which is nonsense because EVERY faction in one way or another has access to something that can suppress.

To sum this up:

1) They suck in their default form in T2
2) GK have no access to units who can suppress in T1
3) Wrong concept to buy a unit for AV-purpose and then have to upgrade it

I somehow can see how the removal of interceptors will work out but purgation in T2 without drastic changes to their state? Does not feel right.

P. S. I used noise marines as a counterpart because they are really similar in their roles and there is no other unit to be that close in terms of this. Noise marines stay, purgation be gone? Does not feel right.

P. P. S. Could you double-check whether their melee resistance aura works or not? I always have a feeling that they perish so fast once melee units have their hands on them...

Sub_Zero wrote:Unlike noise marines (why are they still in T1?)

Sub_Zero wrote:P. S. I used noise marines as a counterpart because they are really similar in their roles and there is no other unit to be that close in terms of this. Noise marines stay, purgation be gone? Does not feel right.

Is this supposed to be a serious post?

In case moderators yet again will decide to not remove a post that falls into "off-topic" category I will answer on that.

I wrote it the way I did because I feel strongly about this subject. It is not fair to move them at all. The newly introduced T1 unit (judging by its description) WILL NOT fulfill the role of purgation squads at all. And here we have a hole... Every faction has a defensive and offensive T1.5 unit. GK will not. Why?

Caeltos is toying with the race he created.
I don't know what he have in mind, but it's GK that need something, there is no reason to attack Chaos T1, that is perfect.

Noise Marines are there for a reason, and it's to have a gen-basher.
But because it's not an upgrade but a T1.5 unit, they need to have some sort of battlefield control, so an opening with them is actually usable.

Together with Havocs and Raptors, Chaos have awesome, different and well balanced opening. All three unit have a way to control the enemy in 3 different ways, counter different things, and all three acquire different role in T2 and all three are good in different niches.

For sure Grey Knights need both suppression and gen-bashing, but that's no excuse to picking on and retaliate on other Faction that don't have your problem.

Together with Havocs and Raptors, Chaos have awesome, different and well balanced opening. All three unit have a way to control the enemy in 3 different ways, counter different things, and all three acquire different role in T2 and all three are good in different niches.

You say awesome, what if I tell you that it is TOO good? Chaos used to be really different from other races because it didn't have a jump unit. Havocs insta suppression was cool, noise marines dominance was cool. All that combined with worship allowed this faction to perform well in T1 even without a jump unit. If his reasoning is to differentiate heavy armoured factions then why raptors remain? Their addition wasn't necessary at all. And now it feels like crazy to witness how both GK's defensive and offensive options are just removed from the tier where they performed really well. Yeah, we haven't seen that in action yet, blah-blah-blah, but if it turns out horrible? How many time will we wait to see a new patch? Such radical changes are never good. And by radical I imply this very decision to remove 2 (!) units and add some obscure unit (judging by its description). This is why I am so harsh about this.

Chaos, unlike other Faction, have very little flexibility once the pickup their choice, and most of their units just fade in importance once they pass their Tier. Noise Marines are barely useful in T2 since they are fragile and their blastmaster is the weakest of all plasma-like weapons.
T1 is their place.

That's why they need more units than others. Chaos is a very balanced and fun to play faction, and their T2 is already full of other stuff. T2 units that, except Dreads, don't have any upgrades. Chaos may seems to have a lot of combinations, but really they don't have that many. 3 units in T1.5 is a necessity for what would be a very limited faction.

Chaos can live without Raptors? Yes, but the problem is that that will make Suppression squads a very obvious choice against Chaos, since it require initiative and more effort from the Chaos player, and that reduce not only the variety of Chaos choices but even yours.
That variety in the roaster make the game far more interesting for both sides.

Don't know about GK. They seems to me that they need many more things, but then it's a Caeltos creation. He may makes mistakes in the small things, and i disapprove some of his choices, but i must admit he's never wrong in the great scale of things.
If he say that he can make GK a viable and fun faction without Purgations and Interceptors in T1, i have no reason not to believe him.

raptors aren't exactly that good as a jump unit , the suppression is nice dont get me wrong

but having a high energy cost jump, combined with a low model hp + a landing that does not knockback = easy target for bait traps ..really really really easy.

if asm got up one day with raptor energy requirements they would kill themselves out of shame.

well at-least raptors are scary enough to cause setups to sweat which is all one really can ask for from a budget jump unit.


still dont get the interceptor changes. the purgs i kind of get since having a gen bashing unit + a transport in t1 was always going to be a rather ridiculous combination ... and it is .

Our perceptions are so different. To me there is no T1 Chaos unit that loses its relevance in other tiers. The only exception may be heretics because they don't have an upgrade in T2 and don't get any statistical boosts but they are still solid at their support function. There were games where noise marines proved useful in their default form even in T3 and there were games where I transformed them and they won me those games.

If he say that he can make GK a viable and fun faction without Purgations and Interceptors in T1, i have no reason not to believe him.

Believing is one thing but you have to think yourself. How do you see a faction without a defensive unit? That is just one big hole. It is just as bad as IG back in the day without a proper anti-suppression unit. That new GK unit may substitute an offensive option (interceptors) but I don't see at all how it will help to patch the hole that is about to be created.

if asm got up one day with raptor energy requirements they would kill themselves out of shame.

ASM don't have bloodthirsty heretics and dominant over setup teams noise marines (even if raptors fail at forcing off a setup team, noise marines will never let it function normally) to support their assault and not let it suffocate. This is why ASM are the way they are. The only thing that can support ASM is shotgun scouts. But hey they die under fire so fast and aren't really that menacing as a melee unit. Raptors' state is absolutely justified because of these other units at your disposal. All other factions' jump units are worse than ASM for exactly these reasons, all of them have at least one melee unit to supplement your assault.

the purgs i kind of get since having a gen bashing unit + a transport in t1 was always going to be a rather ridiculous combination ... and it is .

Right. But if you are aware of this potential then you have to be 100% ready for that and counter appropriately. The transport will be less resistant to damage, it will not be hard to bring it down.

This thread has gone so far off it's original post we should just rename it "Noise Marines in T1, why?"

About Purgation, the reason it's getting shuffled to T2 is that Caeltos wants to make room for more inquisitorial squads to be fielded in T1. Whether or not Operatives/Acolytes sufficiently fill the hole that leaves in T1 will have to be seen next patch. I'm totally ok with the extra cost of the psycannons in T2 because in comparison to what you got them for before, you're still getting for cheaper imo.