Dawn of War Codex

Post your initial general balance feedback for 2.4 here. For more specific or in-depth discussion feel free to make new threads and stuff.

The 'heavy flamer' does high amounts of burst damage, which leads to high damage to gens in a matter of seconds and squad losing troops unpredictably. Could this be changed please?

2.4 is so polished thanks guys il find some proper moans soon for yall

Helios wrote:...

Moved your post here, thanks.

The GK Interceptor Squad is buggy and can only build in T3 but it says that it needs T2 Stronghold .

It's just an incorrect tooltip, see here. Please keep this thread to balance.

Played a few games but against GK I noticed.

Imperial operatives are crazy good. They get invis from the start or at least it seems so! The burst damage is pretty damn good for a squad that infiltrates so quickly and their default speed is like scouts. Really excited to see GK adapt and use these guys more!

The banshee leap <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Haven't even been able to get naded because of passive leap. Rangers suppressing!

Ranked matches are so good. I feel so much nostalgia.

PhatE wrote:Played a few games but against GK I noticed.

Imperial operatives are crazy good. They get invis from the start or at least it seems so! The burst damage is pretty damn good for a squad the infiltrates so quickly and their default speed is like scouts. Really excited to see GK adapt and use these guys more!

The banshee leap <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Satchel charge retreat kills.

Problum?

Too many people are playing eldar. Now I have to learn vs. Eldar.

Thanks dev team for making me learn yet another matchup

Cheekie Monkie wrote:

PhatE wrote:Played a few games but against GK I noticed.

Imperial operatives are crazy good. They get invis from the start or at least it seems so! The burst damage is pretty damn good for a squad the infiltrates so quickly and their default speed is like scouts. Really excited to see GK adapt and use these guys more!

The banshee leap <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Satchel charge retreat kills.

Problum?

You'll have to be the Lord of timing to pull that one off ^^

Could we keep this thread focussed on balance? I know you gents love a natter but this is the wrong thread for it.

Rangers might still need a small damage boost imo. The courage damage is nice but the main weapon still feels a little lackluster.

IG is as op as I thought it would be, which is good. Cheaper GM and Commis along with cheaper Manticores have made me a very happy man.

Mekboy is out of control.

Its all gone too far I think.

I mean I stopped playing Mekboy after it was firmly decided that more dakka is bonkers OP. 75 red doesn't make a difference. This global instantly wipes your hero. I just lost like 6 games in a row to a guy who in all honesty, is playing really good, however, I'm getting stomped. I'm talking 400vp stomped.

I beat him one game and had 55 vps left.

So what is the total problem then?

I think first and foremost, this guy is playing mekboy in an optimized fashion, the likes of which hasn't been seen in a while. It's really helping me to see the problem after the shitkicking I received.
Second, heal pack is now way more effective. It used to be only optimal for stormboyz, but now with sluggas' higher hp, it feels like trying to bleed an SM when I'm playing against orks O_O.
Third, stormboyz are only 30 power. Didn't see that coming... like at all. And don't get me wrong, they aren't great in T1, but I haven't seen any takeaway from them or sluggas in T2 for the stronger T1's.
Fourth, more dakka. Time to rethink this. I shouldn't have to play HT or CL or BC if I want to have a fun match against the mek. Maybe make the cooldown super long? I don't know what to do. But its just pure rape currently.
And finally, dat eco. I counted the power spending, and he outspent me by 2 fold or more, yet teched faster, always got a trukk out, and always got nobs on every squad before I could even get anything useful out.

This was a super shocking and humbling experience. I haven't lost this badly so many times in a row for a long time.

Anyway, I encourage the dev team to look closely at the mek.

Atlas wrote:Rangers might still need a small damage boost imo. The courage damage is nice but the main weapon still feels a little lackluster.

IG is as op as I thought it would be, which is good. Cheaper GM and Commis along with cheaper Manticores have made me a very happy man.

Stop smoking weed, with the courage damage they instantly suppress everything if fielded in pairs - so either remove the courage damage and then buff the damage or reduce the courage damage and leave them be.

Basically, rangers too stronk cause too much courage damage.

Tex wrote:Fourth, more dakka. Time to rethink this. I shouldn't have to play HT or CL or BC if I want to have a fun match against the mek. Maybe make the cooldown super long? I don't know what to do. But its just pure rape currently.

I just want to emphasize what Tex is saying here, every ability that does chain knockdown imo is just completely broken beyond belief (talking full auto, shoot em good, heavy gauge death spinners, and whatever else I'm missing as well as More Dakka).

It's simply gamebreaking to have a hero/single entity get lost due to casting an ability right before getting knocked back and then they can't retreat and just get killed by literally everything,. A game focused so much on squad preservation shouldn't have this mechanic at all, on any hero, any race.

Basically, the mechanic needs to get reworked, something like a stun or an ability disable or anything other than "trololol i pressed a button now ur hero/subcommander is ded trololol".

A couple other balance concerns:

Menacing Visage at 30 power is total bullshit.

Paladin Shockwave thing does way too much damage, it's almost as bad as getting hit by wailing doom o_O

Inquisitorial Operative satchel charge one-hits generators and can sometimes wipe 2/3 of them if the farm is clumped together, which is also bullshit on an infiltrated unit.

Forestradio wrote:

Tex wrote:Fourth, more dakka. Time to rethink this. I shouldn't have to play HT or CL or BC if I want to have a fun match against the mek. Maybe make the cooldown super long? I don't know what to do. But its just pure rape currently.

I just want to emphasize what Tex is saying here, every ability that does chain knockdown imo is just completely broken beyond belief (talking full auto, shoot em good, heavy gauge death spinners, and whatever else I'm missing as well as More Dakka).

It's simply gamebreaking to have a hero/single entity get lost due to casting an ability right before getting knocked back and then they can't retreat and just get killed by literally everything,. A game focused so much on squad preservation shouldn't have this mechanic at all, on any hero, any race.

Basically, the mechanic needs to get reworked, something like a stun or an ability disable or anything other than "trololol i pressed a button now ur hero/subcommander is ded trololol".

A couple other balance concerns:

Menacing Visage at 30 power is total bullshit.

Paladin Shockwave thing does way too much damage, it's almost as bad as getting hit by wailing doom o_O

Inquisitorial Operative satchel charge one-hits generators and can sometimes wipe 2/3 of them if the farm is clumped together, which is also bullshit on an infiltrated unit.

qft on all of this.

A sniper unit that has knockback on demand but that can also suppress you after a couple of volleys is top of my bullshit list for this patch. Fix the Rangers.

Slaaneshi Cacophony wrote:A sniper unit that has knockback on demand but that can also suppress you after a couple of volleys is top of my bullshit list for this patch. Fix the Rangers.

Or at least don't make them knock back your squads, if you're going for 'realism'. I honestly don't get why would the Eldar need more supression if they got banshees and GWTs already.

tac sarge should have 70 melee skill IMO

warrior with AG getting damage buff per horma/terma seems a bit too much, specially since they already got their damage buffed

im liking the WG changes, tho not sure if the damage reduction is big enough to justify the fire on the move

Operatives can 1 shot entire gen farms with satchel charge.....it wouldn't be as annoying if they weren't stealthy but they iz

Forestradio wrote:

Tex wrote:Paladin Shockwave thing does way too much damage, it's almost as bad as getting hit by wailing doom o_O

Honestly, I think it is perfectly fine. I've been playing nothing but GK since the patch, and have used the paladin shockwave numerous times. Most of the time I can't even tell that it does much of anything except make a nice-looking effect. Also, it seems like it can be interrupted (at least that's what appeared to happen), and you lose the energy plus have to wait for the cooldown when that happens.

Anyway, it's not like I was wiping stuff left and right with it. I think it's fine. It's a tier 3 expensive unit, it should be good.

What I hate is low-tier units having stuff that's too good, not high tier ones. For instance, I think shotgun scouts are BS.

Spartan717 wrote:The 'heavy flamer' does high amounts of burst damage, which leads to high damage to gens in a matter of seconds and squad losing troops unpredictably. Could this be changed please?

Which HF? Terminator Captain, Terminator Squad, GK Dreadnought?

Should the Operatives infiltration be moved to be incorporated in Fallback Plan? It seems very powerful out of the gate and I've been briefly running double Operatives in tier one, and having free infiltration makes them incredibly powerful and spammy since I don't need Fallback Plan.

Even without satchel charges wiping gens, ops are still very good gen bashers since they pop in out of nowhere and do their buttloads of damage in T1. Few units are fast enough to catch up with them, so you'll always need to keep one eye open on your gen lane. I haven't been this paranoid since melta storms.

Also wondering about the identity of this Mysterious Stranger who managed to butthandle Tex.

Hellstar wrote:

Forestradio wrote:

Tex wrote:Paladin Shockwave thing does way too much damage, it's almost as bad as getting hit by wailing doom o_O

Honestly, I think it is perfectly fine. I've been playing nothing but GK since the patch, and have used the paladin shockwave numerous times. Most of the time I can't even tell that it does much of anything except make a nice-looking effect. Also, it seems like it can be interrupted (at least that's what appeared to happen), and you lose the energy plus have to wait for the cooldown when that happens.

Anyway, it's not like I was wiping stuff left and right with it. I think it's fine. It's a tier 3 expensive unit, it should be good.

What I hate is low-tier units having stuff that's too good, not high tier ones. For instance, I think shotgun scouts are BS.

It does a ridiculous amount of dmg that it shouldn't do. The other day it wiped my StormBoyz with a Nob. It's gonna get changed from what ive heard.

appiah4 wrote:

Spartan717 wrote:The 'heavy flamer' does high amounts of burst damage, which leads to high damage to gens in a matter of seconds and squad losing troops unpredictably. Could this be changed please?

Which HF? Terminator Captain, Terminator Squad, GK Dreadnought?

All grey Knight paladins, terminators and space marine terminators (except force commander) are effected.

Did a rough test on power node.

Greyknight dread with inferno canon = 125 damage at regular intervals

Terminators with heavy flamer, greyknight termi and paladins with incinerator = 289 damage with subsequent damage occuring after a longer pause than other flamers.

Terminator commander with heavy flamer = 100 damage at regular intervals

Space marine dreadnaught with undersplung flamer = 55 damage at regular intervals

Operatives have amazing burst damage. Might need to be looked into soon. I think the infiltration they have needs to drain a bit faster but have an upgrade (that cost req perhaps) that slows the energy drain a bit.

I think rangers are fine. But i think that units in cover should be suppressed by the rangers and only if they are out in the open.

Aspect of the avenger needs a cost reduction in req imo since it doesn't grant health any longer.

Black Relic wrote:Operatives have amazing burst damage. Might need to be looked into soon. I think the infiltration they have needs to drain a bit faster but have an upgrade (that cost req perhaps) that slows the energy drain a bit.

I want to know what the alternatives are if these things get nerfed. Purgation was moved to T2. Interceptors were moved to T3, where I think they will be unused (I certainly haven't used them). Operatives were supposed to fill the gap. With all the proposed nerfs I see (dps, satchel, cloaking, etc)... will they?

They are short range, fragile, and cost power. If everything under the sun about them gets nerfed (dps, satchel, cloaking, etc), will we lower their cost? Increase their range? Add some armor? Move a unit from higher tier back down to T1? They aren't tactical marines that can just go toe-to-toe with other units, so if you nerf cloaking... ?

Other factions have a jump squad in tier 1. Need to respond quickly to enemy suppression? Right click jump squad towards enemy until within range -> mash jump -> click on enemy -> done. GK needs to respond quickly to enemy suppression? Hmmm, lets see. Grab operative, click cloak, try to flank enemy to left... oh crap he has units there that will detect me. Double back, try to flank right... crap this is taking a long time and that suppression is killing me... crap my cloak energy is running down....

Whenever I get online to play, all I see is SM, SM, CSM, SM, SM, Orks, CSM, SM, SM, CSM, CSM, etc. I hope we can get a viable GK in there somewhere.

As to Paladin shockwave, GK have no ultimate heavy like a great unclean one or avatar. You can only build one of these things, they are expensive, they are slow, the cooldown is long, etc. It isn't as if someone is going to have 5 or 6 paladin squads marauding the map spamming shockwaves.

Hellstar wrote:GK have no ultimate heavy like a great unclean one or avatar.

Everyone forgets the LRC! Which got buffed this patch too.

Hellstar wrote:

Black Relic wrote:Operatives have amazing burst damage. Might need to be looked into soon. I think the infiltration they have needs to drain a bit faster but have an upgrade (that cost req perhaps) that slows the energy drain a bit.

Interceptors were moved to T3, where I think they will be unused (I certainly haven't used them). Operatives were supposed to fill the gap. With all the proposed nerfs I see (dps, satchel, cloaking, etc)... will they?

Interceptors ARE AMAZING!!!! They're like tanky warp spiders that can destroy anything! REALLY GOOD against vehicles! The melta bombs go off instantly now too!

You should try them! Words can't explain how good they are.

Infiltration on ops drains enough energy. My ops are almost always running out of energy between tossing bombs and stealthing. The satchel is fine. Yes, it can blow up an entire gen in one go, but I find myself using it more for blowing up artillery and capping units that the player isn't paying attention to. Running all the way to the gen to blow up one isn't as worth it as blowing up a whirlwind or a scout squad that isn't paying attention.