Dawn of War Codex

Hello everyone!

I figured I would put up this thread just to give you people abit of an insight on what's going on through my head and discuss the future of the modification.

Right now, there's some balance evaluation going through the 2.2 version, and I'm generally happy with how things have ended up. The only thing that's really only on my radar specifically at the moment, are some of the Tyranid Leaders, they've been hit/miss, but I'm getting more of an impression that's a good thing, rather than a consecutive hit/success by purchasing them.

Depending on the evaluation, I'm less inclined to furthermore tweak balance adjustments in all of it's existing state. And start preparing for future content. However, this is not so say balance will be ignored for a while, I'm just re-organizing myself abit on how I will tackle with new(possible) implementations for the mod.

So, now you might ask - what's on the horizone?

Well, here are the to-do things, and not neccasarily just tied-to my line of work (Design & evaluatin the balance)

- Implement new voice-lines for all the new units // faction
- Getting more animators/modellers to help join the project
- Evaluate the effiency of all wargears in the game (Commander specific)
- Put together a campaign-script & maps // + General design
- Put together a brand-new game-mode for Multiplayer

I've already begun some early-WIP of the new faction, which is going to be Tau it was either that, or Necrons. However, I've compiled some work on both factions already, and depending on what the community wants , they will get. However, due the general goal & envision of the campaign, I'd really like to implement either faction to be present and have some sort of connection and relevance to their introduction. Necrons probably do better justice to provide with some potential antagonist material, but it all comes down to the general story. Highly subjective, but I'm a big fan of the new Necron approach in their latest Codex, and think they will also provide with some cool gameplay features & general design. However, Tau provide probably the lowest obstacle and is far more reasonable to implement, hench why the need for animators/modellers need to be met in order to make this more a reality.

Also, I'm not going to be as active as I was before, getting busy again with some stuff, which means there's less likely to be a frequent patch updates. However, I'll still pop in and be in the chat, just don't expect me to be as lively & lovely as I use to.

Anyways, I think that just about covers it.

Great stuff - it'll be cool to see a new faction in the future. Not a fan of Tau really (if it came down to it, I'd prefer necrons over tau) but honestly, I'm welcome to seeing either faction being added (:

And of course, your contribution to the community has already been awesome so I'm sure everyone will be understanding of life getting busier for you and thus, being unable to provide as much time (and tender caressing) to the community as you used to.

You're so lovely <3

To be really elite, the ELITE mod needs the sexy nuns AKA Sisters of Battle!

Not a big fan of Tau or Necrons, but well, I'm not going to complain against their implementation in ELITE. Maybe the main problem will be found their design which could fit into the DOW2 balance.

I fear especially for the Necrons design, and how could fit in ELITE. Because the "possibility to recover one dead model of squad", the "recover dead bodies and create new squads" or the "massive resurrection from the Necron commander" mechanics aren't going to be balanced/possible in the DOW2 gameplay/design.

Though I would have preferred the necrons the balancing would be outrageous i think with resurrection being implemented and retreat mechanics. I agree that Tau would be the more practical choice.

will you be focusing on making 2.2 mini updates to polish problems like maul and stormtrooper nade launchers first?

You can implement anything if you try. It's not like every single Necron gets up, it's only with a 5+ in the TT. There are many ways to balance it.

But whatever we can get would be awesome.

will you be focusing on making 2.2 mini updates to polish problems like maul and stormtrooper nade launchers first?

Yes, of course. All those nasty bugs will have to be fixed, but it all ultimately boils down abit on Lulgrim on how fast he can resolve the issue, or possibly Thomas.

As for Necrons, I wouldn't want to have a RNG element for coming back to life. I would probably approach it more cautiously. Preferably, possibly global;

Rise of the Machine - 150 red
The next 5 models that perish, will rise back up. This effect does not work on any Destroyer Types, or vehicles.

^ This is just an example on how I probably would approach it. It'd still fit the theme of the Necrons being able to come back up alive. Or you could possibly tie it to a wargear specific for the Commander. Like I said, fun mechanics, but complex in it's design, Tau are abit more straight up , simplistic and easier to approach.

I think if Necrons were to be implemented, the resurrection protocol would have to be limited to commander globals and purchasing resurrection orbs as commander wargear. Having models resurrect on their own, even if only infrequently, is too hard to balance and would probably be too random, making the outcome of battles swing wildly around.

Also, how would the whole gauss weapon type be implemented? In fluff it basically does full damage to everything, and the only thing I can imagine it paralleled to in-game would be a longer-ranged weaker melta weapon, or perhaps a venom cannon. But having such weapon type would be ridiculous when the entire army starts out with it, unless it was designed so that gauss weapons start out as piercing and then can be upgraded to gain the melta-like quality later on.

Either way, Tau is a good choice as far as implementation and hopefully balancing goes.

FunkyMonkey wrote:Also, how would the whole gauss weapon type be implemented? In fluff it basically does full damage to everything

Loads of things are ridiculously strong in the fluff. A plasma pistol one-shots a tank in a Gaunt's Ghosts novel; it's obviously not like that in the tabletop or DoW2 and yet doesn't seem "out of place" in either. In the TT, Gauss Flayers (what Necron Warriors use) have the same strength/AP attributes as a standard bolter. Though they do have the "Gauss" special rule, which could be implemented as late game upgrade or something.

In other words: there are always ways to keep things fluffy and still balanced; tabletop does it (I guess...) and so can DoW2.

I think there are some interesting ways you could represent the resurrection mechanic that wouldn't necessarily come down to a die roll and a free model. Maybe let them slowly reinforce in the field if they shut down (i.e. don't move or shoot) or if a squad dies it can be repurchased at HQ at 50% of the initial cost. The drawback to such advantages would be general slowness, or even inability to retreat.

It wouldn't be 100% fluffy by any means and it'd be tough to balance, but I just don't find tau all that interesting, so I'd rather see the 'crons.

Nice to see this! Thanks Caeltos!

As for input: I am impartial to which race(s) come along, I just love to see more good work done. Tau are interesting for sure and thanks to the Last Stand hero I am sure some assets are in place already. Necron and even Dark Eldar would be great to see in time. Sisters of Battle sounds incredible too, but I am not sure how practical they would be as a full race per se? I am no expert, but I think current 40k lore has them 'off stage' at the moment. Some kind of mystery after the Inquisition purged itself or some such.

Balancing is as balancing does; DOW2's engine allows for just about any mechanic you can dream up for RTS play. So there should be no issue apart from a lot of work and/or time to see how it all goes.

Good stuff!

Did not see a new race coming already. Or a new campaign? :O
Very nice ^^

I'm sure Caeltos won't just implement stuff tat isn't thought over guys :p
Don't worry about the new race not being balanced.
I'm sure he's already proven this with the GK's and the whole mod.

Quite nice :3

Well if I'd need a pick between Tau and Necron (which is super hard, due to the fact I love both xD) I'd pick Necron :3 Simply because of the new Codex lore made them awesome ^^ Like Tomb Kings in space Plust they are a lot more interesting in my opinion then the tau who just recycled an old human philosophy technically XD (not that I dont love them, but yea Slightly simple-mindned ^^; You either join the Greater Good or perish xD)

As for the Gauss weaponry, the old DoW1+ expansions solved this quite nicely: Different necron units did different dmg type with their weapons. For example, simple Necron warriors were effective against infantry and to some extent, heavy infantry. Immortals were great vs. any vehicle type but struggled with infantry a bit. Same with Destroyers. Plus with the new Codex, necrons have a wide variety of unit types that will look amazing in the game :3
And great idea with the resurrection tied to commander globals The only tricky thing with Necrons, is the commanders. Necrons use mostly a Necron Lord. Ok, now with the new Codex there are different choices ^^ Like the Overlord and the like

Either way, whichever race Caletos you chose to implement I'll be here to do the artwork and if needed for the animators/modelers, concept art too + them wallpapers I loved to work on the stuff so far ^^ So count me in =)

How interessting would it be having a Faction that has no retreat mechanic but is able to replace models or even revive Squads on the field in exchange.

Propably impossible to balance^^


I know there are allready assets for Tau, (Fire Warriors and Suits) and it looks like you could just scale 'em over Guardsmen or Marines,

but are there any Modders that did anything for Necrons so far?

Seems like Necrons would be both from Gamedesign and Balance standpoints AND also regarding modeling and animating ALOT more work.

Edith: Turns out there are already talented people doing Necron models, sweet.

but are there any Modders that did anything for Necrons so far?

There was alot of people involved trying to make them, however more or less everyone abandoned the project by the look of things.

Ironically the SoB were created by a French-Italian crew [WH] and then added to
SoulStorm Maybe that some1 of them is still active and ready to help in the far
future. Give it a shot. Although it may seems strange I couldn't agree with Riku more.

I'm really impressed Caeltos

This is awesome! I greatly appreciate the continued support for DOW2 if I had the skills to contribute I would, but alas my career path does not lie in technology. I look forward to a new race, and of course the fine tuning the balance of current races. Thanks Caeltos and those contributing to the Elite mod!

Kilgarn wrote:Either way, whichever race Caletos you chose to implement I'll be here to do the artwork and if needed for the animators/modelers, concept art too + them wallpapers I loved to work on the stuff so far ^^ So count me in =)

He already picked Tau because, summarized in short, they are "easier" to implement. As stated in the first post ^^

He already picked Tau because, summarized in short, they are "easier" to implement. As stated in the first post ^^

Yes, but if the community is more in favor of implementing Necrons and if we have enough animators/modellers to create them, I would probably go for Necrons.

Fuck Tau then. Go for Necrons! ^^

Dark Riku wrote:Fuck Tau then. Go for Necrons! ^^

This. My vote would definitely be for Necrons, if it were possible with available resources.

No Fuq ya all, Adeptus Mechanicus ftw
For the Omnisiah!

I do know that several newcron units have been modelled by various people for DOW1. I also know that for a lot of such works, the basic skeleton is first produced, and then the modeller hacks it down to it's bare basics to reduce the poly count and thus enable it to be used in DOW1.

Therefore I'd imagine for a few necron units there does exist a high-polygon count version, perhaps of high enough quality for DOW2.

With the caveat that the most prolific modeller of newcrons has... a history of being difficult to work with. He's a young Russian male with developing English, goes by the username of boychaos. He's expressed regret for previous unprofessional behaviour though, and many of us in the DOW1 community are hoping he's sincere, because his actual work is astounding. He's completed a Ghost Ark, a necron overlord, an annihilation barge, a doomsday ark... and those flying croissant things, whos name escapes me. Some of these have made it into the titanium wars mod (lead dev is Russian, therefore can bypass the language barriers the rest of us have): http://www.moddb.com/mods/titanium-wars ... day-cannon

I know that the Ultimate Apocalypse mod also has some models completed for deathmarks, and for tomb stalkers, and that these were NOT completed by this boychaos fellow. For instance: http://www.moddb.com/mods/ultimate-apoc ... -sync-kill

And: http://www.moddb.com/mods/ultimate-apoc ... e#imagebox

I second on necrons, perhaps most of their globals could be focused on reviving their units and they could get less red from kills and more from their own losses compared to the other factions to symbolize their re-animation, but also this shouldn't grant free squads, more like free reinforcements squad-based, with perhaps a T3 global that provides on field reinforcements similar to the drop pod (could be the mass resurrection global).

Or instead of globals their squads could have abilities that cost red similar to waagh but perhaps more expensive depending on how much red they get on model loss (and depending on how big their squads would be) and when used such ability would grant 1 or more free reinforcements at base.

Hmmm... This is a tough pick... Perhaps Tau.

IMHO Necrons could be a very different race with very different playstyle to add sauce to the ELITE mod, where AFAIK adding Tau will be only add a shooty race with few melee squads. And already have IG with that playstyle/design.

My vote goes towards NECRONS!!

I say take Necrons if you are willing to get REALLY creative and crazy with their playstyle.

Like. no-retreat-mechanic crazy, or something.

Otherwise, go Tau.

Dark Eldar

krakza wrote:Dark Eldar

+1