Dawn of War Codex

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:19 pm**

at least at the lower skill levels (i make no comment about anything beyond that), every eldar i have encountered in online play since 2.4 does one thing and one thing only: try to get to T2 as quickly as possible, and then spam as many WG as possible.

anyone know why? i'm not asking why someone would spam something - the answer is obvious: the spammer considers it OP, and is trying to abuse or capitalize on what he considers to be OP. what i am asking is, what changed in 2.4 (i didn't see this spam prior to that)?

i read the patch notes, and WG seem to have gotten nerfed as far as straight-up damage. sure, i understand they got fire on the move, but the noobs and lower-skill players i face online don't try to use this sort of nuance, and are probably incapable of using it - they just sit and fire for the most part, and maybe try to walk backwards if you try to melee them.

i have 2 hypotheses:

1) the lower level players get their meta from the higher level players and try to imitate it, and higher level players must be spamming these things at the moment, utilizing their increased mobility from 2.4 to good effect.

2) there is some fairly recent video or screencast where someone spammed these things and used them to great effect, and the lower level players are imitating that, assuming (rightly or wrongly) that these things are OP.

which one of these is it, or is it something else?

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:29 pm**

Probably because FOTM is regarded as a large buff to their performance even if they don't use it. I think this si one of those odd cases on your part where players see a unit is buffed overall and thus use it, and buy more of them, which in itself is a shock and awe tactic simply because you've never had to face an enemy like them in such numbers before. So in a sense people aren't used to facing them, so it beats lots of players who ahve enver had to fight Wraithguard.

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:32 pm**

Swiftsabre wrote:Probably because FOTM is regarded as a large buff to their performance even if they don't use it.

wait... i am confused. to me "fotm" means "flavor of the month." what does it mean to you here?

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 1:38 pm**

Fire on the move.

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 2:36 pm**

Probably a combination of the two hypotheses or more.

As for why WG spam has become more prevalent compared to the previous patches, I could only rationalise this as the other players have caught up at how powerful they are, even with the changes. This could be attributed to Indrid actually, I'm sure I've heard him in casts saying to spam wraithguards (he might have just said to get a wraithguard instead).

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 2:43 pm**

WG are the new FoTM because of FOTM

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 3:37 pm**

Just a guess - as someone who personally cant micro for shit - would it be reasonable to conclude WG are a bit less micro intensive?

Ranged unit with now FoTM, HI, and decent all round damage (can even threaten vehicles)? To take them down requries significant ranged focus and melee is more micro intensive - and risky with Banshees around.

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 4:02 pm**

A move is not micro intensive

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 8:26 pm**

Swiftsabre wrote:A move is not micro intensive

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 8:37 pm**

Maybe you play always against the same people, and those spam WG now?
If we assume that WGs are op at low level (aka easy to use and good to mass), then it could be simply that someone started using them and had success. The people he played agaisnt noticed that, and used it themselfes. And suddenly everyone uses it, if thats the case.

Btw, write me in Steam next time you play against an Eldar, than I can spectate the game and maybe give more helpfull tipps

Posted: **Mon 27 Jul, 2015 10:15 pm**

Lichtbringer wrote:Maybe you play always against the same people, and those spam WG now?

They are all different - I write their names down so I don't play them again

It's weird - just since 2.4, every eldar player is doing the exact same thing.

If we assume that WGs are op at low level (aka easy to use and good to mass), then it could be simply that someone started using them and had success. The people he played agaisnt noticed that, and used it themselfes. And suddenly everyone uses it, if thats the case.

Could be anything I guess. I was guessing the higher-level players were doing it now, and lower-level players were copying them, but since you guys aren't saying that, must be something else.

Btw, write me in Steam next time you play against an Eldar, than I can spectate the game and maybe give more helpfull tipps

Thanks, was just mainly wondering what the genesis of this was. I know you are supposed to melee the things - but attempting that doesn't work at our level.

Posted: **Tue 28 Jul, 2015 4:35 pm**

Hellstar wrote:
Lichtbringer wrote:Maybe you play always against the same people, and those spam WG now?

They are all different - I write their names down so I don't play them again It's weird - just since 2.4, every eldar player is doing the exact same thing.

That is just lame. Also, getting double WG is not "spamming". Double WG have been very powerful in certain MUs, so why not get them?
Go check out this replay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdd5Xj1RXA
It did not get Tex the win but it worked very well against that infantry blob.

Posted: **Tue 28 Jul, 2015 6:30 pm**

Adeptus Noobus wrote:Also, getting double WG is not "spamming".

Never said "double."

Posted: **Tue 28 Jul, 2015 6:55 pm**

WG lose to superior range and melee. WG Spam is generally less effective than getting 2 WG and supporting them properly due to those counters.

Stuff like Plasma devs wreck WG face because of this, and superior range infantry as mentioned do well as well.

Posted: **Tue 28 Jul, 2015 7:33 pm**

This post is written according to topic; ''Why WG spam?''

Wraithguard play can become insane if there are no melee threats around. That is why Wraithguard is generally a go to unit vs Imperial Guard, specially 3 Guardsmen supported with medical bunker is a call for Wraithguard. Still, this play will fail in case of well played Orgryns or fast melee heroes. A Shrunken supported Wraithguard play nearly impossible to force off so doubling up is a solution. Or in case of a flank, Wraithguard is defenceless. They can not react fast. As long as you protect them, they will always serve good.

Or a Devestator play, camings of Techmarine or Plague Champion. Turrents really like Wraithguard. A tactic from me; if Tacs are around of a beacon, bleed the mas much as you can. Req starwing SM ( or any race ) can not tech as fast as before. I sometimes just bleed Heretics around Nurgle Shrines as long as I know that I can force them off.

Posted: **Wed 29 Jul, 2015 3:40 am**

Codex wrote:WG lose to superior range and melee. WG Spam is generally less effective than getting 2 WG and supporting them properly due to those counters.

Stuff like Plasma devs wreck WG face because of this, and superior range infantry as mentioned do well as well.

Quoting due to importance. WG aren't just invincible.

Also firatwithin, it's a small thing but it's "Shuriken" not "Shrunken". You seem to keep repeating this

Posted: **Wed 29 Jul, 2015 10:13 am**

Atlas wrote:Also firatwithin, it's a small thing but it's "Shuriken" not "Shrunken". You seem to keep repeating this

I don't think even real Eldars cares about it

But thanks, I can keep write it wrong manually now insted of an accident.

Posted: **Fri 31 Jul, 2015 9:18 am**

Sorry for going a bit off-topic with the following, but I don`t know if it was discussed already and didn`t want to create a new topic since it is WG related.

So, did anyone ever suggested to introduce Wraithblades to Elite? The same eldar wraith construct as WG but a melee unit with ghostaxes (or swords if you like), melee charge, appropriate resistances and spiritseer support. The idea is to introduce them as tier2 heavy melee unit at the same time remove ranged WGs from tier2, and add an upgrade on tier3 to turn blades into guards - give them their ranged distortion weapons with appropriate stats and resistances rebalance.

This change actually will make WG spam a tier3 issue, hence much more complicated "strategy" to pull off.

Posted: **Fri 31 Jul, 2015 9:55 am**

SinisterLaugh wrote:Sorry for going a bit off-topic with the following, but I don`t know if it was discussed already and didn`t want to create a new topic since it is WG related.

So, did anyone ever suggested to introduce Wraithblades to Elite? The same eldar wraith construct as WG but a melee unit with ghostaxes (or swords if you like), melee charge, appropriate resistances and spiritseer support. The idea is to introduce them as tier2 heavy melee unit at the same time remove ranged WGs from tier2, and add an upgrade on tier3 to turn blades into guards - give them their ranged distortion weapons with appropriate stats and resistances rebalance.

This change actually will make WG spam a tier3 issue, hence much more complicated "strategy" to pull off.

1 - ) No animation as far as I know that can fit in.

2 - ) Wraithlord can easly make same job.

3 - ) No need.

Posted: **Fri 31 Jul, 2015 4:39 pm**

4) Having a retreatable, large health pool, heavy armoured power/heavy melee squad for Eldar gives them unnecessary melee staying power that would be a nightmare to balance.

Posted: **Fri 31 Jul, 2015 5:28 pm**

Some one did suggest wraithblades a few times before. Some interesting ideas thrown around but the others above have stated reasons why they aren't needed.

Dawn of War Codex

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