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FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Tue 04 Aug, 2015 12:19 pm
by The great Cornholio
okay... i made a post before about this.. but since i think its still a big problem i feel the need to repeat myself.
i dont expect support from marine player
s on this but anyway ..hear me out
the shield is OP ... i think it costs 120-20 and for the price you get
50% less range damage on all units inc allies... 50% is a MASSIVE reduction in t1
it breaks supression making setup teams sitting ducks.
it gives FC 200 more health and a small dps boost.
some people might argue.. oh get some jump units and the problem is solved.. but it rarely works. jumping raptors or stormboyz into a marine blob dosent do the trick most of the time. soo all you can do is just back away and see the marines burn down all your power.
combine stormshield with APO and more tac marine and you have the perfect blob army in t1.
so i want to know why this insane wargear is still this good? i cannot think of another wargear in t1 that is this good for the price
and its not a "skill" problem.. i seen noisy beat the shit out of tex with FC vs warboss.. by using the shield.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Tue 04 Aug, 2015 12:48 pm
by Dark Riku
Yea, no.
I don't see the wargear doing anything OTT in 1v1's. Changing the performance too much might make it redundant in 1v1.
Most of the time you see power swords/hammers already anyway.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Tue 04 Aug, 2015 7:11 pm
by Cyris
Just make it only effect your own army. It's completely fine in 1v1 imo.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Tue 04 Aug, 2015 10:31 pm
by Dark Riku
This is 3v3 you're talking about, (crazy) combo's are a thing in his game mode.
What's the incentive to working together with others if your abilities don't affect them?
And yes, I know some abilities don't, but that's their design.
Wouldn't make sense for Synapse to work on non allied Nids
Would confuse the crap out of enemies if synapse bombs don't go off since they are allied Tyranids.
Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for most Chaos stuff since they are selfish bastards
Etc
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 4:27 pm
by Deflaktor
My problem with that is rather that there is no appropriate response to it.
Everytime I see that I think "what do I do now?" Even if I anticipate it, there is nothing I can do.
Do I focus fire the FC? No, he gets 50% ranged reduction from the ability and another passive 20% from the wargear.
Do I engage the FC in melee? No, its a freakin' melee commander.
Can I somehow sap his energy dry? No, I do not have such an ability.
Imo, the ranged reduction should not affect the FC himself, or at least affect him at a reduced percentage.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 5:35 pm
by Superhooper01
Post on this quickly before it gets locked like mine
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 8:55 pm
by Asmon
The ability costs energy, which makes FC less prone to use Battlecry. SM army is also quite slow under the effect, thus it is units like TSM that you should engage in melee. FC will not be able to reach them in time, unless he cancels Defense... Then he is suppressed.
I won't mention the few wargears and abilities that drain energy, though they're certainly effective (MWB for example).
As often, the solution is just micro: bait the use of Defense, wait for FC to get away from his army, then flank TSM with melee. And as always vs FC, making the enemy waste Battlecry by engaging then withdrawing melee squads, and repeated KB, will be even more effective.
I think the Stormshield is powerful, but only too good in team games.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Sun 09 Aug, 2015 6:55 am
by Impregnable
Asmon wrote:The ability costs energy, which makes FC less prone to use Battlecry. SM army is also quite slow under the effect, thus it is units like TSM that you should engage in melee. FC will not be able to reach them in time, unless he cancels Defense... Then he is suppressed.
I won't mention the few wargears and abilities that drain energy, though they're certainly effective (MWB for example).
As often, the solution is just micro: bait the use of Defense, wait for FC to get away from his army, then flank TSM with melee. And as always vs FC, making the enemy waste Battlecry by engaging then withdrawing melee squads, and repeated KB, will be even more effective.
I think the Stormshield is powerful, but only too good in team games.
Agreed. It is fine now in every way possible but that damnable team game factor is ruining it. I think I said this in a thread before 2.4 patch came in to play. Carapace armor of LG also give wide range suppression immunity and it affects your allies but it is not called op because it is not a toggle and it doesn't give you a damage reduciton in any form. Problem with this wargear in team games is that it gives that damage reduciton to huge ranged blobs created by many allied players. One guy's blob being like that is ok but 3 of them like that is not. I think that damage reduction spreading to allies is nuts not suppression immunity for its negated by being slowed down to a crawl.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Sun 09 Aug, 2015 12:26 pm
by Toilailee
Impregnable wrote:Asmon wrote:The ability costs energy, which makes FC less prone to use Battlecry. SM army is also quite slow under the effect, thus it is units like TSM that you should engage in melee. FC will not be able to reach them in time, unless he cancels Defense... Then he is suppressed.
I won't mention the few wargears and abilities that drain energy, though they're certainly effective (MWB for example).
As often, the solution is just micro: bait the use of Defense, wait for FC to get away from his army, then flank TSM with melee. And as always vs FC, making the enemy waste Battlecry by engaging then withdrawing melee squads, and repeated KB, will be even more effective.
I think the Stormshield is powerful, but only too good in team games.
Agreed. It is fine now in every way possible but that damnable team game factor is ruining it. I think I said this in a thread before 2.4 patch came in to play. Carapace armor of LG also give wide range suppression immunity and it affects your allies but it is not called op because it is not a toggle and it doesn't give you a damage reduciton in any form. Problem with this wargear in team games is that it gives that damage reduciton to huge ranged blobs created by many allied players. One guy's blob being like that is ok but 3 of them like that is not. I think that damage reduction spreading to allies is nuts not suppression immunity for its negated by being slowed down to a crawl.
IG buffs only affect allied IG units tho. Also I like your avatar.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Mon 10 Aug, 2015 8:43 am
by Superhooper01
People are starting to get the banner as their 3rd slot war-gear adding all the lovely damage along with defend making all the bloody tacs that have been spammed do tons of damage making the jump troop option pointless....
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Mon 10 Aug, 2015 10:54 am
by MaxPower
Toilailee wrote:Impregnable wrote:Asmon wrote:The ability costs energy, which makes FC less prone to use Battlecry. SM army is also quite slow under the effect, thus it is units like TSM that you should engage in melee. FC will not be able to reach them in time, unless he cancels Defense... Then he is suppressed.
I won't mention the few wargears and abilities that drain energy, though they're certainly effective (MWB for example).
As often, the solution is just micro: bait the use of Defense, wait for FC to get away from his army, then flank TSM with melee. And as always vs FC, making the enemy waste Battlecry by engaging then withdrawing melee squads, and repeated KB, will be even more effective.
I think the Stormshield is powerful, but only too good in team games.
Agreed. It is fine now in every way possible but that damnable team game factor is ruining it. I think I said this in a thread before 2.4 patch came in to play. Carapace armor of LG also give wide range suppression immunity and it affects your allies but it is not called op because it is not a toggle and it doesn't give you a damage reduciton in any form. Problem with this wargear in team games is that it gives that damage reduciton to huge ranged blobs created by many allied players. One guy's blob being like that is ok but 3 of them like that is not. I think that damage reduction spreading to allies is nuts not suppression immunity for its negated by being slowed down to a crawl.
IG buffs only affect allied IG units tho. Also I like your avatar.
What about Fist of Brokus (or however that thing is called) and the "none shall fall" ability, which effects all allied units?
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Wed 12 Aug, 2015 3:50 am
by Bahamut
It's a matter of tactics and skill, baiting the energy usage on the FC and such
There's really no need to nerf it in team games. The slow penalty sometimes hurts your teammates way more than the suppression immunity benefit. IMO this wargear is perfectly fine
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Wed 12 Aug, 2015 5:41 pm
by peachesenregalia
Bahamut wrote:It's a matter of tactics and skill, baiting the energy usage on the FC and such
There's really no need to nerf it in team games. The slow penalty sometimes hurts your teammates way more than the suppression immunity benefit. IMO this wargear is perfectly fine
Yep. Cornhole mad cuz bad.
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Sat 15 Aug, 2015 2:09 am
by Impregnable
What about Fist of Brokus (or however that thing is called) and the "none shall fall" ability, which effects all allied units?
Hmm.... Honestly speaking, that thing is also borderline op and I won't refuse if that ally affecting part of that ability is removed. However, storm shield is way more cheaper and you can purchase it in Tier 1 part is setting it apart from that Fist of Brokus. If stormshield is more expensive and is like T2 wargear with current stats, I don't think I am going to consider it overpowered in anyway. Just that ally affecting ability that also gives them damage reduction start from T1 onwards from such a cheap wargear is broken IMO.
To sum it up, I think below factors are the main concern.
1. Cheap (20 Power)
2. T1 wargear
3. Damage reduction spreads to allies <- factor 1 and 2 are fine as they are but that feeling of brokeness is generated here when they are combined with this factor 3
Re: FC stormshield ...way 2 guuud
Posted: Sat 22 Aug, 2015 6:18 am
by Adeptus Noobus
This thread is still missing a replay, where the Shield has been proven to be utterly broken (as it has been called here). Theorycrafting does not cut it here.
With the 35% speed reduction, even the CL and the PC can kite the Tactical Marines. Hell, they are even slightly faster than Scouts. That means you kite back and setup again, until the FC has no more energy which will make him half as efficient as he has no more energy to use Battle Cry. Slow moving units also become way more vulnerable to AOE because it is easier to hit them.
There are also a few more combos that can achieve a lot of recieved dmg reduction in addition to a damage buff by e.g. putting up a few banners and getting the Boss Pole. They also affect allied units and not only your own.
3 Waagh Banners and the Boss Pole e.g. give you the following permanently (if in radius):
- +18% damage
- -18% suppression (additionally -50% from the Boss Pole)
- +20% health (Boss Pole)
Congratulations, allied Tacs have just been elevated to lvl 3 health wise and lvl 4 dmg wise and all that in T1 (unless I made some miscalculations).
Teamgames are prone to produce crazy synergies but that is why they are
teamgames. I am trying to say, that there are ways around this other than getting into green cover and pew pewing each other.