Dawn of War Codex

Agenda/Discuss/Index:
0 Intro
1 Basic Synapse (The bomb)
2 Bio-Plasma
*Brood Nest - "Retreat Synapse (beacon)"? =D
3 Carnifex
3.1 Carnifex - Costs
3.2 Carnifex - Health Regen (And Swarmlord)
*Commanders - Synapses
*Commander - Global Unit call-ins
4 Endless Swarm
*Globals - Warrior Vanguard, Mycetic Spores, Without Number
5 Heavy Infantry (Warriors) - Size Small
7 Hormagaunts
8 Infestation Towers (T3 Global)
9 LA Lictor Alpha
* LA - Global Ripper Drop
9.1 LA - Global Spore Mines
9.2 LA - Global Stalk
10 Lictor T3
*Neurothrope - Overpriced, 500/60p.
*Ravener Brood
11 RA Ravener Alpha
11.3 RA - Burrow Traps
*RA - Hive Node
11.1 RA - Tunnel Durability
11.2 RA - Tunneling/Jump
*Reverse Synapse
12 Tyranid buffs -> Allies
13 Tyranid Jump, Troops/ Abilities
14 Tyrant Guard - Melee Resistance Aura
15 SL Swarmlord
15.1 SL - Blade Flurry
15.2 SL - Ground Floor Garrisoned Units
*Spore mines - Dmg vs HI
16 Warrior Brood Barbed Strangler

Done:
*Doom of malantai ability slots to 1-4. http://puu.sh/k6U4f.jpg


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0 Intro:
From my noob pov, heres my feedback on the Tyranid faction.
It seems nids are based around infantry, heavy T1-2 and possibly a Lictor in T3, combined with focusing on map control.
Later on in the game, save up for a super unit, a swarmlord or carnifex.
Melee seems favored as nids seem to lack viable ranged damage vs heavy infantry in T1 atleast.

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1 Basic Synapse (The bomb)
Consider only to give synapse bomb if its the last/ only synapse creature in that radius.
From a TT perspective, if a unit has synapse it has it till its gone.
From lore and what makes sence, yea it might work to give a synapse bomb each time a synapse creature dies. What also could make sence would be that the synapse creatures turn on/ off or "allocates" the synapse, or takes turn who gives who synpase.

Synapse bombs does what dmg, up to 80? And then its the knockback (i should check up these things..), i think its ability knockback and it might effect retreating units (not sure). Its very punishing and easy to get squad wipes once a synapse bomb goes off. As warriors are size medium theyre even easier to wipe as dev lascannons, missile launcher has x0.3/0.2 dmg multipliers insteed of vs small 0.05, and alike weapons.

2 Bio-Plasma
Is pretty meh, it doesnt do that much damage but is ok CC/ disruption vs blobs or in the situation important units. The damage is not in any way superior or competable vs normal venom cannon damage, ~50% dmg than a normal HTVC shot and 20% than a VCFex shot. Yea, it got regular weapon knockback, it will knock back most infantry and and commander. But considering its purpose and design it seems more aimed vs heavy infantry and super heavy infantry. Atm its so general, it hasnt picked a path what its supposed to be used vs. Is it vs setup teams as a retreat/push mechanism?

The damage is to low to be targeted vs infantry or high model. The radius is in line with a scout or DA grenade. And the regular weapon knockback would suggest it should be used vs lesser infantry (non regular knockback resistance units). The damage type plasma cannon, is not in line with beeing vs normal infantry. Could it get an ability knockback perhaps (not necessarily vs retreating units)?

So Bio-Plasma, what are you? Are you made to be used for a little this n that, the outcome beeing so general, so for balance purposes, because its so general it wont really be effective vs anything.

3 Carnifex
3.1 Carnifex - Costs
Are "outrageous", what does 600r 150p really give you? A slow piece of shit with no abilities that "cant do much". Its way overprices for what you get, lowering the base cost for a Fex and possibly modify (lower or higher) the upgrade costs would be much more sound imo. Carnifexes are equal to other factions t3 tanks, they just cost alot more.. Is that a balance thing? I dont see that balance. Preds, Looted tank, FP, LR, they got less hp and cost less.. Because they are faster! Because Fexes are slower they got more hp, theres no reason though to increase their cost by 20-90% compared to other similar units. Another reason why the basic Carnifex should be cheaper is because it cant spawn spore mines or rippers for free.

A dark age dread would beat a vanilla fex, but still cost 75 less req. Thornback vs GUO, GUO would have ~40%hp (if calcs are in order) when the Thornback goes down, guo costs 50 less req. An upgraded fex costs 700r/185p - 750r/200p, 750r/200p? Thats a super unit? Is carnifex considered a super unit? Is carnifex balanced to be a super unit? 750r/200p is equal to a GUO, LRP, Avatar, LRR, Battlewagon, SL. Most of these units are one or more of the following: costs: slightly less 50r 20-40p or 50r more, faster or slower, more hp, more power for the money (i should back that up..).

3.2 Carnifex - Health Regen
Would be nice to have more health regen in some way on the Carnifex (and Swarmlord) as nids arnt able to "repair" their vehicals on the field. Insteed nids are forced to walk back with their slow monster creatures (TG excluded) to base in order to heal, and thats means alot of time out of the field for healing. Nids doesnt have the posibility to dubble or tripple repair stuff either, so Fex and SL really ought to get a hp regen increase. I would suggest a hp regen of 3hp/s, as that would give them 10,5hp/s within a zoanthropes regeneration synapse. Remember that regeneration synapse doesnt stack, when the zoan hits lvl 4, the regeneration heal could become op, at the same time you would kinda earn it. Maybe its possible to hard cap the maximum health regen on Fex and SL from zoan aura?

Its no certainty or given that youll have a lvl3-4 Zoa to heal your Fex or SL, lvl1-2 will be the more common case im sure of. Therefore the hp regen should be 3 rather than 2. At level 1/2/3/4 zoas regen will multiplay with 3.5/5.25/7.875/11.8125, which translates this Fex regen 3hp/s pruposal to
10,5/15,75/23,625/35,4375.. Hmm. If Fex had 2hp/s it would be 7/10,5/15,75/23,265. Maybe something in between? Or would one claim nids should have a lower "repair" as it would be automatic and not manually applied/ microed (nids got a ton of micro already, dont fall for that crap..).

*Commanders - Synapses
Why wouldnt RA and LA be able to benefit from the basic synapses?

*Commander - Global Unit call-ins
What about making them some kind of vanguard (better than usual warriors)?

4 Endless Swarm
How different are Hormagaunts/Termagants from Guardsman infantry squads really? I think the endless swarm upgrade should revolve more around requisition rather than power (if power at all), it takes quite a while to get that upgrade in aswell. Gaunts upgrades doesnt bring in more options really, "rather just makes them slightly better at what they do". Yes, horma can leap a 50% longer, but what do you really get for AG and ES? Its 110r/30p after all. Hormas get temporarily/ situational "faster", 10% more dmg, 10% hp, they dont get any ability or new options gameplay wise. Its a req unit that will bleed, theyre designed to bleed and die, forcing the player to put in to much power to get more req conservative is wrong. AG at 15p to hormas seems somewhat legit atleast, but the ES 15p? Nah.

Its not like hormagaunts has a detonation or are possibile to be a detector unit, no grenade upgrade, shields, heavy infantry model with higher melee skill/hp upgrades. They are a plain bleeding high model melee unit, that pays 110r/30p to make them slightly better with the limited options they do have. Imo thats just to much precious power spent for what limited extra buff/ "options" you get in return. Endless swarm is about requisition cost effiencey, let it be about req and not revolve around power. Nids already need the power for SM, barbed strangler 50p, decourer ravs 55p, hero upgrades and the usual gaunt upgrades. Endless swarm could very well be a t1 upgrade aswell and be around 80req or so.

Termagants, TS gives them another option; to slow. Its just 5s though but gives them a few more options, slow to avoid/ dodge or slow to damage. I would say TS's 15p upgrade cost is more legit than hormas 15p upgrade cost, because of the increased options/ possibilities given. Endless Swarm, doesnt bring Termas any more options, its basically just a cost effiencey upgrade, it doesnt bring anything new to the plate for Termas. Therefore it shouldnt cost power, its about req.

Accualy im not quite 100% sure on what this upgrade give you. It doesnt seem like you get that second reinforced model for free, which was what i thought. That would mean its even worse of an upgrade, req/ power spent. And what are the details regarding the models stats, "adds two models that share damage", i assume its damage recieved. But does it also apply on their damage output? Do you get two more models that only really count as one?
So, what you get is two gaunts which shares damage and die last. Probably has their own hp and dmg, thats 25% more hp in the unit, and that pair can tank 160 dmg, 192 effective hp under basic synapse, 268 effective hp under melee synapse. Max potential, hormas lvl 4 under a lvl 4 synapse, 447 effective hp, can that pair tank. Its mainly there to just survive i would assume. Hormas would also get 25% more dmg in the unit. This is assuming the endless swarm gaunts works just like the other hormas, with the exception to share damage and die last.

*Globals - Warrior Vanguard, Mycetic Spores, Without Number
In general, the usage of the unit pans out when you get them one or two tiers later. Its also a forced economy cost of 1-2 extra units that persists to the temporary "now" field usage/ advantage you recieve for the red.

Warrior Vanguard, Mycetic Spores
Why cant they be T1 globals insteed of T2, its just t1 units afterall, and you will have to pay for those reinforcements in order to make use of the temporary reinforcement point. You get the unit for a little less cost one tier later, save some power, put you pay alot of red to get it. Mycetic Spores T2 global makes sence beeing a remnant of Ravener devourer gameplay from retribution 3.19, in that version the devourer upgrade were possible from t2. Mycetic Spores remaining in T2 feels outdated, its time for an update.

While were at it, please move back Enhanced Muscle Coil to T1 please. Melee raveners.. They dont have the durability like ASM, nor the damage output like stormboyz, so theyre mainly there for disruption, just like Warriors. In t2 most jump troops gain the possibility to get a leader upgrade, that leader has most of the times MPW or MH weapons plus grants the unit some extra ability. Raveners only gets another ability/ excel further in disrupting, they still remain fragile and with low damage output. They wont bleed that much but they have an upkeep for just beeing there. Is that upkeep worth the disruption? How much in return do i get for this extra microing?

If i would have needed ravs i would of gotten them in T1, and globals are ment for "staying power"/ current field advantage? Normally one would get ravs vs a setup team, and thats normaly in t1. That the global forces upon one another rav squad just for beeing a to late global doesnt make much sence. One could say the retail design might be to have a melee ravener in t1 with muscle coul, and drop in a 2nd ravener as RA for devourer synergy with the venom brood.

Without Number
Do i really need to wait until T3 to spawn two tier one units, two gaunt broods, to get that free reinforcement? That short reinformenet radius of 35 could also force the nid player into spawning the global to close to your own units or be to close to where it lands (damaging yourself). Two gaunt broods that late in the game could seriously hurt your own economy aswell, or just get killed, or just bleed you alot. But sure, yea its a reason for going to t3 earlier, for that imo the radius is to small.

5 Heavy Infantry - Size Small
Im not sure how accuracy works, if its a damage multiplier, roll if you hit or miss compleatly, or hit further away from where you target. Might be all of them but applied to different weapons. So, when i write here i assume its a damage multiplier straight off.

Its so wrong.. FC, WB, BroC, size small. TSM, ASM, Raptors, Havocs, CSM small. Ogryns small. SS small. All these non commanders have HI or SHI armor though? But Warriors, should have size medium? Melee pvp, plasma pvp, bolter pvp, flamer pvp and supression pvp will still do as much dmg vs these poor warriors. Size medium for warriors means the following weapons get viable vs them (damage multipliers):

anti_vehicle_pvp (csm dread missiles), 0.2 insteed of 0.05.
missile_pvp, TSM missile launcher, 0.2 insteed of 0.05.
armor_piercing_pvp/ brightlance_pvp (venom cannon, lascannons), 0.3 insteed of 0.05.
(minor change) CSM's autocannon's, 0.9 insteed of 0.8.

These weapons get viable to hurt the one of a kind rare: medium sized Tyranid Warrior, extra crispy and shoot up. But these weapons are not viable vs CSM, TSM, majorety of commanders, ASM, raptors, havocs, devs, ogryns.. Isnt that strange? And all of these units are heavy infantry? (Except Ogryns and commanders). Havnt these Thug-Life warriors had enough? Theyre in dire need for some size small chillax.

6 Removed.

7 Hormagaunts
The backbone unit of Tyranids? Tyranids seem to favor melee (poor/ lower ranged potential (ranged costs more)), and infantry. The Tier options, in general unit mechanics and costs of units, seem to point in a melee favored direction. Hormas are pretty fast but has limited options, their upgrades doesnt bring them any other/ new options gameplay wise, just slightly buffs their same usage areas/ posibilities. Lowering the AG upgrade to 10p could very well be balanced. Hormas doesnt have any ranged damage or abilities, theyre very single-minded and it should be reflected in the upgrade costs.

Endless Swarm upgrade costs, see above nr 4. Imo ES is about cost efficiency, power shouldnt be included to that calculation. I compare EC upgrade to Guardsmens Sergeant upgrade.

8 Infestation Towers (T3 Global)
Could infestation towers generated by the tyrannoformation become non killable by vehicals simply driving over them? Its not like you can accualy be there during the tyrannoformation to benefit from all of the buffs/ auras while shooting at the enemy (well... accualy you can..radius 45 and 100). But its hard to predict the distances to avoid damaging yourself, how close you can get to get the buffs. The buffs Tyrannoformation gives are equally important as the damage and tower knockbacks, because the damage is is not spiking damage, rather portioned out/ divided at points in a very large area.

One could say, its in line with a t3 global that the towers are easily destroyed because it should be a temporary advantage, not permanent. Tyranids got something "semi-permanent", the enemy can rather easily destroyed/ remove the buff, or atleast limit the area easily. Yea thats kinda true, its seven towers after all, atleast one should stay up and emit that aura/ buffs. Some of the towers use to be destroyed upon erupting or something beeing in the way (ex vehical, still or slightly moving/ rotating i guess), and having seven "permanent"/ consistent could maybe be like a wall to landraiders and other vehicals/ units. At the same time, T2 infestation towers could cause this issue aswell to block paths n such. Idk for sure if a landraider can drive over a t2 global infestion tower.

Anyway, i think it would be possible and fair to give tyrannoformation towers the "durability"/consistensy t2 global infestation towers has, atleast some of them if not all.
No, i dont think Tyrannoformation is as powerful as other factions globals, it could very well have a lower red cost, maybe 400?

9 LA Lictor Alpha (Hero)
LA could probably get some more health regen while out of combat from the Adrenal glands wargear upgrade, like 2,5-3,5hp/s.
Why cant Toxic Cysts be t1 insteed, why be forced to t2 for an anti infantry "grenade" on a commander?

9.1 LA - Global Spore Mines
Could LA's T2 global Spore Mine drop get explosion and wkb on impact (like the Warrior and Ravener global drop)? Or lower the red cost, to like 50-100? Possibly increase the cooldown. The spawn timer of the spore mines are like 6 seconds (till they appear on the field), and they dont really move that fast. Sure, that spore global drop gives you an edge and momental advantage. But is 125 red really worth a medium temporary threat, 100r and 5p? No, its to much red. It could also very well be moved to T1 aswell.

9.2 LA - Global Stalk
Stalk could apply to more than just LA, the T3 Lictor aswell? Maybe genestealers also? 75Red is a bit much to just revolve around the LA. Originally Stalk seemed to be about information gathering for a much lower cost. Now it just seems overpriced and limited to revolve around the LA solely, it fits the lore but just doesnt feel right, its to narrow. If your a good player, you can probably remember/ spot and predict where your opponents commander is.

10 Lictor T3
I think there are good reasons to give T3 Lictor higher melee skill. Any unit produced in t1-2 with 60-70 melee skill would have leveled up atleast once and therefore reject Lictors possibility to special attack. But units with 70 melee skill, will kinda perma special/ knockback the lictor, rendering kinda useless as its a single entity. T3 Lictor should have a natural disadvatage vs t1-2 units because its produced later on in game, in T3. Giving lictor the possibility to benefit from the AGWB melee synapse wouldnt be in line of how the lictor would be used, that would suggest a front line position. Therefore Lictor should have 70 melee skill from the start, to atleast be on par with t1-2 units and commanders possibility to special attack.

Keeping the 60 melee skill and make it unable to be knockbacked is another idea (not from ability knockback though). As Tex said, Lictors can be used to sneak up on vehicals and get off some rear hits, doing 50% more dmg (if i understand the .rbf files right it should be 50% more dmg). Idk if i agree with Tex's suggestion to lower the power cost, i would probably suggest something lower like 60, but as its a single entity i could accept it beeing lowered to 65p as it is. Idk what weights more, lower power cost or to be more sustainable vs units with 70 melee skill, or light knockback immunity, maybe get all of it?

*Ravener Brood
Mycetic Spores T2 global makes sence beeing a remnant of Ravener devourer gameplay from retribution 3.19, in that version the devourer upgrade were possible from t2. Mycetic Spores remaining in T2 feels outdated, its time for an update.

While were at it, please move back Enhanced Muscle Coil to T1 please. Melee raveners.. They dont have the durability like ASM, nor the damage output like stormboyz, so theyre mainly there for disruption, just like Warriors. In t2 most jump troops gain the possibility to get a leader upgrade, that leader has most of the times MPW or MH weapons plus grants the unit some extra ability. Raveners only gets another ability/ excel further in disrupting, they still remain fragile and with low damage output. They wont bleed that much but they have an upkeep for just beeing there. Is that upkeep worth the disruption? How much in return do i get for this extra microing?

11 RA Ravener Alpha (Hero)

11.3 RA - Burrow Traps
RA, burrow trap, ability to trigger it manually (in case it doesnt go off when it should)?

*RA - Hive Node
Time based existance, energy.

11.1 RA - Tunnel Durability
Could RA's tunnels become non instant gibbable (driver over n it dies)? If it switches the armor type, then lower the hp of it or alike?

11.2 RA - Tunneling/Jump
RA, ability to "jump" directly/ faster tunneling (in some way)?
The possibility to directly jump/ "teleport" insteed of burrowing a tunnel. A switch to turn this option on/off (with cooldodwn), or another ability key for it, or in some other way. Some QQ'ing here that all other races got direct teleport of some sort but not tyranids, well David, SM FC doesnt get possibility to teleport until T2, nids got other options other races dont have.. RA can upgrade to be burrowed and dig tunnels, thou your slower burrowed and tunneling is only like 40% faster than walking yourself kinda. But i want it! Would it be an imbalance to give RA this?

*Reverse Synapse
It only makes sence that those units benefitting from the Melee Synapse also work for the Reverse Synapse. Nid units depend on eachother, and warriors arnt any real AV unit, mainly disruption and synapses it seems.

Termagants beeing included in the reverse synapse, how does that make sence gameplay wise? Is it suggested to send your termagants to the frontline, should they force melee aswell? It suggests to blob whatever you have into a mega blob, no no, you wont take massive damage from aoe and CC abilitys/ weapons. It can also force you to choose what synapse to benefit from, venom brood ranged synapse or increase reverse synapse (in a scenario where you dont want to mega blob due to vulnerability). At the same time it gives you the option to make unupgraded termagants more relevant if your not getting a ranged blob.

12 Tyranid buffs -> Allies
Make Tyranid buffs/ abilitys effecting non-tyranid allies (not all, but someone atleast)?

13 Tyranid Jump, Troops/ Abilities
Give RA, LA, Lictor, Raveners immunity to suppression and/or -dmg recieved, while jumping/ burrowing/ tunneling.

14 Tyrant Guard
Melee resistance aura to tyrant guard?

15 SL Swarmlord
15.1 SL - Blade Flurry
Swarmlord ability Blade Flurry, make it ability knockback?

15.2 SL - Ground Floor Garrisoned Units
SL to be able to dmg units in 1st level garrisons.

*Spore mines - Dmg vs HI
Why wouldnt spore mines deal 1.25 dmg vs heavy infantry? Atm they just do x1 dmg vs heavy infantry. Strikes me as wierd.

16 Warrior Brood Barbed Strangler
Tyranids doesnt have an as obvious gen bashing tool like SM, CSM, IG, Orks and GK. I believe Eldar are the "worst" at gen bashing in T1, but Tyranids should be on a solid 2nd place. How would it be to make WBBS more like a flamer weapon? A little more dmg vs units in heavy and light cover. Also more damage vs light buildings? Nerfing flame dmg vs buildings for other factions would be a satisfying outcome aswell ^^
Increase the range of the BSWB! Whats the reason really for having the range disadvantage? Because BS can fire over walls? Or no setup time? The BS fires less often, and the shot has a long travel time, it can even miss..

Lower the cost of BS is another alternative. BS is almost twice (66% more power) as expensive compared to other setup/suppression teams, for a good reason aswell, the basic synapse. Basic synapse is just range 32 though. Is Basic synapse really worth 30-25 power? Nids dont have the option to avoide the basic synapse with the warriors before they get access to the barbed strangler. Tyranid T1 play is pretty limited to what units you can get and how many of those, at the same time Nid gameplay is different from other factions.. Dubble, BSWB (90p) or Devourer-Raveners (110p) seems not ment to be..

Compare the costs to what other factions can get for the same resources. Have in mind that nids are "forced" to have more req units, each unit with high model count, and that makes nids very suceptible to aoe damage. Synapse auras also pushes Nid players into blobbing, and to get vulnerable for aoe dmg/ crowd control abilities. A synapse bomb going off on retreat is brutal casualties..
Seriously the range! Only 30? Make it 38-40 atleast, or the shot reaching the destination faster.

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Anyone else having other ideas for Tyranid?

PS: Yes, the text is happy, i live in Sweden. The weather here literary has 50 shades of grey 24/7. Everything you see here has nuance of grey, it gets depressing, i need some colors to cheer up.


Some of the most important changes to me:
*Carnifex cost reduced from 600/150 to 400/100.
*Carnifex thornback upgrade increase from 150/50 to 200/50.
*Carnifex barbed strangler increase from 100/35 to 200/50.
*Carnifex venom cannon increase from 150/50 to 200/50.
*Commanders - RA and LA, be able to benefit from basic synapse.
*Endless Swarm upgrade change from 60/15 to 80/0. Or 60/0.
*Enhanced Muscle Coil, Ravener upgrade, change from T2 to T1.
*Hormagaunts adrenal glands upgrade change from 50/15 to 65/10. Or 50/10.
*Mycetic Spores RA Global change from T2 to T1.
*Neurothrope cost reduced from 500/125 to 500/60. Or 500/75.
*Spore mine dmg vs HI increase from 1 to 1.25.
*Warrior brood size changed to small.
*Warrior Vanguard HT Global change from T2 to T1.
*Without Number Global change from T3 to T2.

No need for extra melee skill I think for Lictor. He already does amazing stuff against ranged squads with his melee damage and Flesh Hook. Also, why he should win against upgraded Sluggaz? Sluggaz are made for melee, Lictor is like a jump troop. His duty is to tie up and kill ranged squads, infiltrate around all map, counter set up teams, ... In short, he designed to be annoying. However, Sluggaz are made for chest to chest combat and they are pretty good at it. So comparing them is not so healthy, sounds familiar with the guy who wanted ASM to beat Sluggaz because they cost more or something like that, can't actually remember.

The ability you wanted is already avaible for regular Raveners. His main abilty can be used for different purposes like being a scout under enemy feet. You can wait untill the right moment to attack which you can't do that with jump troops. EG : Jump with ASM and faces a second set up team.

firatwithin wrote:No need for extra melee skill I think for Lictor. He already does amazing stuff against ranged squads with his melee damage and Flesh Hook. Also, why he should win against upgraded Sluggaz? Sluggaz are made for melee, Lictor is like a jump troop. His duty is to tie up and kill ranged squads, infiltrate around all map, counter set up teams, ... In short, he designed to be annoying. However, Sluggaz are made for chest to chest combat and they are pretty good at it. So comparing them is not so healthy, sounds familiar with the guy who wanted ASM to beat Sluggaz because they cost more or something like that, can't actually remember.

Hmm yea you got a point. Horma and terma feels so weak tho against sluggas, sluggas are so strong even in t2-3, while horma/terma feels more like a req upkeep burden. Good insight tho "your using your units wrong, noob stamp" ^^.

firatwithin wrote:The ability you wanted is already avaible for regular Raveners. His main abilty can be used for different purposes like being a scout under enemy feet. You can wait untill the right moment to attack which you can't do that with jump troops. EG : Jump with ASM and faces a second set up team.

Maybe. Other factions got instant teleporting commander and jump/teleport troops aswell. Using raveners for jumping/ capping compared to WSE or other instant teleporting commanders, feels like req/power bleed on my side, a bad trade off for not having instant teleport/jump. Due to that RA/tyranids might not be to favorable, cus instant teleport option/ ability is more worth.
That factions are better and worse at things is natural, instant teleport/jump for tyranid commanders isnt tyranids thing i guess. But would it be unbalanced to add it?

Tyranids already have Deadly Jump on the Lictor to act as a psudo-teleport, as well as the charge on the Hive Tyrant for a lesser version. Adding another jump/teleport ability to the faction might be a bit of overkill.

When I was about to enter this thread I had already decided that I would support your proposal to buff the T3 lictor's melee skill to 80 and why not? You can purchase only one and he should be considered an elite melee single entity mostly dedicated to melee combat with no support abilities. Only if it was the case... I am shocked that he has 60! He is a T3 melee combatant, he ought to have at least 70! He cannot benefit from melee synapse, can he?

To fight OP T2 slugga boyz with your lictor you have to apply this tactic. Jump on them, there is no minimum range so feel free to use whenever you like (it will do damage and prevent them from doing damage), then when they are on their feet use flesh hook (so their op leader flies away and doesn't add his idiotic damage, especially at level 3/4). At least this way you can manage to kill little fucks while the big fuck is on his green overpowered ass. I <3 dem T2 slugga boyz...

Sub_Zero wrote:When I was about to enter this thread I had already decided that I would support your proposal to buff the T3 lictor's melee skill to 80 and why not? You can purchase only one and he should be considered an elite melee single entity mostly dedicated to melee combat with no support abilities. Only if it was the case... I am shocked that he has 60! He is a T3 melee combatant, he ought to have at least 70! He cannot benefit from melee synapse, can he?

To fight OP T2 slugga boyz with your lictor you have to apply this tactic. Jump on them, there is no minimum range so feel free to use whenever you like (it will do damage and prevent them from doing damage), then when they are on their feet use flesh hook (so their op leader flies away and doesn't add his idiotic damage, especially at level 3/4). At least this way you can manage to kill little fucks while the big fuck is on his green overpowered ass. I <3 dem T2 slugga boyz...

I havnt gone into the game files but no, lictor doesnt benefit from melee synapse. And from elite mod codex t3 lictors assault leap doesnt do damage, just knockback (havnt dubble checked it in game, can do it when im back from walking the dogs)?
Giving lictor ability to "use" the melee buff might be op, im thinking of that 40% hp buff, some extra melee skill wouldnt hurt though, is it to much asked?

The T3 lictor is an awesome tank hunter as well. Can't believe that nobody mentioned he has melee_heavy.

I don't think he needs any changes other than his power price being lowered to 65.

Well that he does. He would be terribad for a T3 unit otherwise. So it goes unnoticed and his slight weakness against infantry is pointed at.

Tex wrote:The T3 lictor is an awesome tank hunter as well. Can't believe that nobody mentioned he has melee_heavy.

I don't think he needs any changes other than his power price being lowered to 65.

Scenario: Lictor chasing a slow vehical, sluggas with nob special attacking lictor knocking him down often = no dead vehical =(
Lictor: 5.5 speed
Battlewagon. 5.5 speed
wartrukk: 9spe
deff dread: 4.5sp
looted tank: 7.25sp

You could be right, lictor aint knocback/down proof tho.
With lictors fast attack speed he could risk beeing op with to much melee skill, maybe..

60melee skill tho is = getting owned by any melee commander (with some lvls), ork+nob, banshees, seer council, assault marines, ogryns, interceptors.
Equal to: scounts, TSM.

But lictors purpose isnt front line battling, its stealth, capping, attacking the backline..
Lictor is T3! Well tyranids got genestealers for suitable cap duty with high melee skill and stationary stealth. Lictor would in that case be excellent back line attacking on the battlfied..
Idk...

PS: Move doom of malantais abilitys to slot 1-4 insted of 2-5, and buttons qwer insteed of wert (im working on changing the key binds).
Changing this manualy, then you would probably have to have grid keys of and change everything manually, multiple times if your changing more races.

Sub_Zero wrote:Jump on them, there is no minimum range so feel free to use whenever you like (it will do damage and prevent them from doing damage), then when they are on their feet use flesh hook (so their op leader flies away and doesn't add his idiotic damage, especially at level 3/4).

PS: Confirmed that t3 lictor does not do dmg with the jump ability.

PS: Lictor does have a "charge leap" that does damage.
Doom of malantai/neurothropes spirit leach immobalize is on a model basis.

PS: Confirmed that t3 lictor does not do dmg with the jump ability.

I confused that with the commander's ability. In the Codex there is also no mention about any damage on landing.

the only things i dont like about nids right now

1 the fact that spore mines don't have a unit cap
2 the fact that the RA has a decidedly inferior contribution in a stand up fight vs the other two nid commanders.(at the start of matches)

1 is kind of game breaking in certain situations.. even when used as a joke
2 is something i can work around

1 the fact that spore mines don't have a unit cap

What do you mean?

I think he wants spore mines to be hard capped per player

saltychipmunk wrote:the only things i dont like about nids right now

1 the fact that spore mines don't have a unit cap
2 the fact that the RA has a decidedly inferior contribution in a stand up fight vs the other two nid commanders.(at the start of matches)

1 is kind of game breaking in certain situations.. even when used as a joke
2 is something i can work around

i dont think 2 is a problem. HT is a big smashy melee tank, and LA is a sneaky assassin. their contributions are definitely going to be more noticeable in a first engagement situation. however, the RA pulls his own weight too. having access to his tunnels gives a huge positional advantage early game, when there are only a few units on the field so you can make the most of your massive mobility to get dominating map control without needing to win the first engagement. putting up a tunnel next to their gen farm and having warriors appear as soon as you get them can be a devastating blow to their economy, and the hive node lets you solidify your early gains and regroup while holding ground.

The RA also has 32 piercing dps and 26 melee dps on a commander with speed 6 and 650 HP. for comparison the Techmarine does 35 piercing dps and 18 melee dps, with only speed 5 and 630 HP. Really the RA is no slouch in combat.

Once out of T1 I think the RA scales decidedly better than the LA, on par with the HT in my book. he has an awesome range of wargears, access plasma and AV damage (in the same upgrade!), and that amazing damage synapse which makes nid ranged blobs fucking crazy.

HiveSpirit wrote:*Doom of malantai abilitys slots to 1-4.

do you mean the hotkeys? numbers are reserved for units, not abilities.

HiveSpirit wrote:*RA, ability to "jump" directly.
*RA, burrow trap, ability to trigger it manually (in case it doesn go off when it should).

both unnecessary. RA is not a teleporting commander, although similar with his tunnels. Burrow trap is a mine, not an IED. not necessary to change, I've never noticed any issues with it misfiring, although it may take a second or two to activate after being planted(?)

HiveSpirit wrote:The possibility to directly jump/ "teleport" insteed of burrowing a tunnel. A switch to turn this option on/off (with cooldodwn), or another ability key for it, or in some other way. Some QQ'ing here that all other races got direct teleport of some sort but not tyranids, well David, SM FC doesnt get possibility to teleport until T2, nids got other options other races dont have.. RA can upgrade to be burrowed and dig tunnels, thou your slower burrowed and tunneling is only like 40% faster than walking yourself kinda. But i want it! Would it be an imbalance to give RA this?

yes it would
he's arguably better than a teleporting commander because he can move your whole army around the map rather than just himself. he can semi infiltrate if you want to be sneaky or need disruption. Ravs are already a jump unit for nids, they dont need a teleporting commander. keep in mind Nids also have deadly leap on LA and charge on HT, nid commanders dont need any help getting into the middle of fights.

Crewfinity wrote:*Doom of malantai abilitys slots to 1-4.
do you mean the hotkeys? numbers are reserved for units, not abilities.

I guess i mean hotkey position.
His abilitys: Cataclysm, Absorb Life, Spirit Leech, Paroxysm, are currently placed 1 empty :

Please change it to (for grid keys atleast):

Please, please, please make these hotkey changes!

I have no real opinion on the other changes, I so rarely go to T3 as nids. Though any time I do and make the Necrothrope, it's abilities confuse me so much. This little set would help!

Had an idea last night about RA.

What about a trade-off, 50% faster tunneling for say, 50% lower hp on the tunnels, or 50% less units that can be in it. Decreasing the range of tunneling (when making it)? Or some combination of this. Tunnels are easily destroyed, specially in t2-3, it takes to long to make them to be worth it. To get units into the tunnels and unload them takes time aswell (beside the tunnel build time). In t2-3 the game picks up speed, and making tunnels isnt speed (why then dont you plan better..). Or make tunnels an ability on cd with no energy drain/ usage? The energy tunnels take (which will be destroyed) could in many cases been better of used on other RA abilities = tunnels not worth the energy in many cases).

I hope this doesnt sound like to much whining.

My short opinion for those who care.

T3 lictor is a great unit as is. Giving it more melee skill seems unnecessary.
The Doom fix would be a nice change.
The RA can tunnel already with an upgrade, yes it's not instant and can be detected. Some differentiation between races is fine.
The RA trap works as intended as far as I'm aware. It's not supposed to go off when detected for example. What's not working with it exactly?

Dark Riku wrote:My short opinion for those who care.

T3 lictor is a great unit as is. Giving it more melee skill seems unnecessary.
The Doom fix would be a nice change.
The RA can tunnel already with an upgrade, yes it's not instant and can be detected. Some differentiation between races is fine.
The RA trap works as intended as far as I'm aware. It's not supposed to go off when detected for example. What's not working with it exactly?

I didnt know that. Sometimes, ~10-40% of the time when i place it it doesnt go off, but probably because im attacked atm and the enemy sees when i plant it, usually that works thou. Maybe those tims are when theres a detector unit involved.

HiveSpirit wrote:*Doom of malantai abilitys slots to 1-4. http://puu.sh/k6U4f.jpg

Changed

Thank you Windu.

I think the LA T2 spore mine global should have explosive dmg and wkb on impact. After all, its 125 red. I do get though explosive dmg + wkb + spore detonation could be a little bit to much, a delay for the spores to spawn could be added. Sure, it doesnt cost req or power, but for 125 red? Sounds to me like a really bad deal.

The Hive Node (Ravener), does anyone ever use it? If you have a game were its used in a competetive fashion, please link.
Could it be buffed in some way? Fire spore mines, have Spore Cloud ability an option on/ off without cd?
The cloud only affecting enemy units? Or that you can deploy the cloud within a certain radius?
Make it moveable?
Remove pop cap and/ or some req/power?
Increase radius?
Make the spore cloud effect/ protect the node aswell?
Be able to "throw-deploy" it within a radius?
Reduced cost HN which got 1-2+ options for HN upgrades?
Ability to turn on/ off the HN in order to heal faster?
Emit basic synapse?
Be able to sell it for 25-75% refund, once your done with it?
Remove dmg/ slow while having the cloud persistently?

http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... de_ravener
--
PS: Thanks windu for the youtube game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zjFwV53DwE

Node goes up around 6 minutes.

It has been talked about a lot in the past with how it was performing too well
Just not much RA players around it seems.

The RA is a great mobility commander but with out any kind of wargear he is not particularly good in a stand up fight and the other two nid commanders have a very notable advantage over him in that regard.

as for the RA node thing. I put it on the same level as turrets. vs certain players and certain situations it can be a game killer. thing is .. there are just as many situations.. hell lets be honest there are more situations where an opponent will marginalize its usefulness than there are times where it will be of benefit.

RA's HN seems fine, it snares everything kinda, vehicals aswell. Seems like the Spore Cloud protects the HN aswell from ranged dmg. Knowledge solved it..

*Swarmlord does not do damage vs infantry in garrison/ buildings, on the first level, shouldnt he do it?
TG and Fex does dmg vs garrisoned units 1st lvl. Warrior, AGWB, Genes, RA w splash melee, does not dmg garrisoned units 1st lvl.
From what i remember, your only able to melee damage units who are on the 1st level/ ground floor.

*I feel a lack of ally synergy stuff/ abilities (non tyranid). Could be that i havnt found what already exists.
RA got tunnels, Hive node,.
HT Brood next, some CC.
LA, infiltration, some CC.
Infestation tower doesnt seem to work on allies, does it stack (probably not)?
Most units abilitys seem to only effect yourself or tyranids, what does tyranids that works for allies aswell?

I think a lot of the nid buffs and abilties only work on allied nid units, they don't have much that affect other allies besides what you just mentioned just by design.

As far as the garrison thing, is that actually how melee vs garrisons work? I has always just thought that they damage the building only unless they have splash damage or some sort of AOE effect. I would imagine that the drain life ability would damage garrisoned units.

Crewfinity wrote:As far as the garrison thing, is that actually how melee vs garrisons work? I has always just thought that they damage the building only unless they have splash damage or some sort of AOE effect. I would imagine that the drain life ability would damage garrisoned units.

RA's Acid Splatter, did not work, could be to short radius thought (radius 5), 20 piercing dmg.
RA's Toxic Miasma worked, didnt do much dmg thought, might be due to only reaching the 1st lvl models (in this case 1-2 models).
Most of the Neurothropes abilities seemed to work aswell, Paroxysm (target a unit) didnt work, idk about CL's Drain life but its an ability that targets a unit/ model aswell (shouldnt work?).

*Squad is immune to suppression and receives 90% less ranged damage while airborne/ jumping/ burrowing (or something similar to this), for LA's Assault Leap, T3 Lictor Assault Leap, Raveners Burrow Strike, RA' Tunneling.

*I guess Tyrant Guard doesnt have melee resistance armor due to balance reasons, accualy, why doesn the Tyrant Guard has the melee resistance buff?
Shoulnt TG have it? The amount hp the TG could very well be op including a MRAura, but all other units like it has the MRA.

*Some of the synapse buffs should work for t3 Lictor and Carnifex (especially). A cost reduction for the Carnifex would work aswell, possibly increase cost of the upgrades.