Rangers

[Dullahan]

WHY DOES THEIR DAMAGE SUCK NOW?

[Oddnerd]

I don't know if Elite mod had the same issue, but I can remember as far back as the pre-chaos rising era their damage was a fine balancing act between being useless or so op that eldar would spam them. I think that is just a problem inherent to having snipers in a game like this.

[Dullahan]

I don't know if Elite mod had the same issue, but I can remember as far back as the pre-chaos rising era their damage was a fine balancing act between being useless or so op that eldar would spam them. I think that is just a problem inherent to having snipers in a game like this.

I skimmed the patch notes and it looks like they do courage damage now instead.

i went double rangers against Ork and discovered they don't kill models anymore.... seems kind of dumb for a sniper.

[Sub_Zero]

Welcome back! There are many new changes for you to discover and initially get disappointed in. Scouts' damage (sniper rifle) sucks as well!

But overall that was a good change. It removed all annoyance coming from snipers.

Rangers' damage may seem underwhelming only against light infantry, their damage against HI is good. But to compensate that their kinetic pulse was buffed (25 damage now instead of 20). So you can really deliver hurt to GM, termagaunts and alike. Only units with low model count and light armor are the hardest targets for rangers now. Raveners for example.

P. S. Try snipers against heroes. You will be pleasantly surprised.

[bibotot]

Never play them. Do they still kill a Slugga/Shoota Boy with a single shot?

[DandyFrontline]

Shoot 2x faster but got almost 2x less damage. With upgrade, also receive courage damage, so 2 rangers can easily suppress enemy infantry

[Atlas]

Nothing sucks the fun out of playing the game when an invisible range 65 unit can one shot most of your models. It was a good change imo and they received buffs in other areas (like the Kinetic Pulse) to compensate for it.

As a poster said earlier, snipers are always super finicky to balance but I do agree that rangers shouldn't be 360 noscope destroyers. This might have even opened the door for a 5th eldar t1 unit imo but we'll see.

[An'grathul]

As someone trying to get the hang of the Eldar race in its entirety I've recently experimented alot with rangers. They definitely still fill a valuable role in some matchups, but mainly a supporting one by delivering detection and disruption. Regardless, their kill potential has not been removed entirely; in some matchups it is quite viable to get two squads of rangers up to vastly increase their killing power and pick off models rapidly when they concentrate fire.

[Adeptus Noobus]

I still remember when people where crying their eyes dry when double Rangers had their old damage stats (I could quote Ven here but everybody knows the quote). In my opinion they are fine as they are now. They are and always have been a very important support unit for Eldar. They setup engagements very well with their abilities (Holofield, Kinetic Pulse) and force enemies to constantly move so that they don't take unneccessary damage. Their damage vs Commanders and especially SHI should also not be underestimated.
These might not be so crucial but still nice:

- Kinetic Pulse damage increased from 20 to 25
- Ranger Shuriken Pistol damage increased from 6 to 12
- Ranger Shuriken Pistol courage damage increased from 0 to 2
- Ranger Shuriken Pistol reload duration reduced from 3-3 to 2-2
- Ranger Shuriken Pistol range increased from 22 to 28

[Dullahan]

I still remember when people where crying their eyes dry when double Rangers had their old damage stats (I could quote Ven here but everybody knows the quote).

I always felt it was balanced around the fact that it was expensive and the rangers themselves cost quite a bit to reinforce. If you invested just as much into t1 as the Eldar did (Who usually got double rangers + wargear + guardian/banshee upgrades.) into your army usually you could deal with it.

I will have to experiment more with the changed rangers though. I wasn't expecting it, but it does sort of remind me of the original rangers back in vanilla that had suppressive volley.

[Caeltos]

Yeah, I took abit of an inspiration from the old utility rangers back then, but not a straight-copy paste. The Snipers are pretty solid for peeling off continous damage against commanders, and their kinetic shot helps chunk down squads health abit.

The idea with the sniper changes was to improve the counterplay-element, but give the snipers something in return to aid them in other areas, for an ex. trying to peel down a commander, or just have reliable and continous damage output against unit sources when they're idle.

[Laplace's Demon]

I never use rangers myself. I just can't bring myself to upgrade with pathfinder gear in t1.5 and delay tech any further. I'd rather get another shuriken than rangers tbh. Less micro and resources for more reliable suppression and damage. stagger the shurikens and then your banshees don't need to babysit and can try to flank. No cloaking needed.

What I WOULD get is some t1 eldar jump troops. Swooping hawks anyone? throw in a nice melee upgrade option and a haywire grenade w/ exarch in t2 and then we can finally pull the plug on the dark reapers. AND hawks are super mobile which fits better with the eldar hit and run guerrilla style the designers are trying to go for. Rangers and dark reapers are so static. Trying to outshoot the dominating turtle races with glass cannons never works, so don't try I say.


TLDR: If the saving the grace of the rangers is their kin pulse disruption,(and upgradeable holofield) give us swooping hawks as jump troops instead, please-you know, REAL disruption you actually have to deal with.

[Adeptus Noobus]

In my humble opinion, I believe Snipers are underestimated now. When playing SM vs GK, I am almost guaranteed to get Snipers since they are mostly HI and it helps to control the BC early in the game. Snipers real do a number on Commanders.

Eldar do not need a jump squad in T1. And their Kinetic Pulse is not the only reason to get them. Their utility is really great and the synergy with the rest of the army Eldar can field is also great. The Holofield and the Kinetic Pulse are things to further sweeten the deal imo. Use them correctly and you have a scary potential for awesome flanking play. I have seen many dead setup teams or dead units because they were knocked down by Rangers first, giving the Banshees the opportunity to rush in and wipe them. All theat coming out of infiltration...sounds like a good reason to get the Pathfinder wargear.

[Wise Windu]

What I WOULD get is some t1 eldar jump troops. Swooping hawks anyone? throw in a nice melee upgrade option and a haywire grenade w/ exarch in t2 and then we can finally pull the plug on the dark reapers.

A fast-engaging, relatively frail melee squad in addition to Banshees? The QQ would be real. And I don't really think it's necessary. Banshees do well enough by themselves. And how exactly would that fill the role of Dark Reapers in a way that Banshees don't? ...And how exactly would that fill the role of Rangers (see Adeptus' post)?

And I really don't think a Haywire Grenade in T2 would be a good idea. Warp Spiders are already enough to deal with vehicles when you have another AV source. Having an extra source of snare coming out of T1 would be a bit too strong imo. And redundant. With Fire Dragons being pretty good right now, I'm not sure improved AV is something Eldar needs.

Rangers and dark reapers are so static.

Dark Reapers, yes. Rangers, no. If you're using your Rangers efficiently, they should rarely be static. Keep them still for too long, and your opponent will force them off.

[Batpimp]

What I WOULD get is some t1 eldar jump troops. Swooping hawks anyone? throw in a nice melee upgrade option and a haywire grenade w/ exarch in t2 and then we can finally pull the plug on the dark reapers.

A fast-engaging, relatively frail melee squad in addition to Banshees? The QQ would be real. And I don't really think it's necessary. Banshees do well enough by themselves. And how exactly would that fill the role of Dark Reapers in a way that Banshees don't? ...And how exactly would that fill the role of Rangers (see Adeptus' post)?

And I really don't think a Haywire Grenade in T2 would be a good idea. Warp Spiders are already enough to deal with vehicles when you have another AV source. Having an extra source of snare coming out of T1 would be a bit too strong imo. And redundant. With Fire Dragons being pretty good right now, I'm not sure improved AV is something Eldar needs.

Rangers and dark reapers are so static.

Dark Reapers, yes. Rangers, no. If you're using your Rangers efficiently, they should rarely be static. Keep them still for too long, and your opponent will force them off.

but but but... ITS COOL THOUGH

[Laplace's Demon]

What I WOULD get is some t1 eldar jump troops. Swooping hawks anyone? throw in a nice melee upgrade option and a haywire grenade w/ exarch in t2 and then we can finally pull the plug on the dark reapers.

A fast-engaging, relatively frail melee squad in addition to Banshees? The QQ would be real. And I don't really think it's necessary. Banshees do well enough by themselves. And how exactly would that fill the role of Dark Reapers in a way that Banshees don't? ...And how exactly would that fill the role of Rangers (see Adeptus' post)?

And I really don't think a Haywire Grenade in T2 would be a good idea. Warp Spiders are already enough to deal with vehicles when you have another AV source. Having an extra source of snare coming out of T1 would be a bit too strong imo. And redundant. With Fire Dragons being pretty good right now, I'm not sure improved AV is something Eldar needs.

Rangers and dark reapers are so static.

Dark Reapers, yes. Rangers, no. If you're using your Rangers efficiently, they should rarely be static. Keep them still for too long, and your opponent will force them off.

Bit of a delayed response here, sorry about that.

To answer your question on what what role hawks would fill that banshees dont, the way banshees are constructed you are pretty much resigned to a counter initiation unit with shees after initial t1 engagements. Once jump troops come out to jump and knock down all your fragile pew-pew, you need to keep shees back. Hawks would allow eldar to start taking some initiative instead of always having to react to the rampaging power armor assaults. On the haywire question, Warp spider haywire snare require getting very close with a very fragile and very expensive unit, simply to snare a target. Most snare sources also contain inbuilt AV by themselves. That means you're buying expensive spiders for snare and upgrading a shuriplat minimum to get the same effectivness on AV as 1 lascannon, or one squad of plague marines..... not efficient.

Unless eldar start getting ranged snare sources, giving more access to short-ranged snare beyond a single anti-infantry unit would be a good move. Again, fire dragons get messed by by having to get close to targets and pose zero threat to long ranged AV that stays in rear of an army. Good luck running through an IG/SM/CSM gun line to get at that ranged tank/ ranged walker.

[Dark Riku]

Warp spider haywire snare require getting very close with a very fragile and very expensive unit, simply to snare a target. Most snare sources also contain inbuilt AV by themselves. That means you're buying expensive spiders for snare and upgrading a shuriplat minimum to get the same effectivness on AV as 1 lascannon, or one squad of plague marines..... not efficient.

Most sticky grenade snares don't come with built in AV. The Warp Spider Exarch does power melee and can be used to finish very low health vehicles off. (similar to ASM)
Non of the other AV grenades disable weapons either... Not counting the different classed TM nade since it's on a commander and a non sticky.

Unless eldar start getting ranged snare sources, giving more access to short-ranged snare beyond a single anti-infantry unit would be a good move. Again, fire dragons get messed by by having to get close to targets and pose zero threat to long ranged AV that stays in rear of an army. Good luck running through an IG/SM/CSM gun line to get at that ranged tank/ ranged walker.

If you need to move through their "entire line" to deal with the vehicle then vehicle won't even be in range to cause you harm
Fire Dragons are extremely good for their cost. Their next patch nerf is a very welcomed one.