Dawn of War Codex

Can someone well versed at it write a guide about early game capping priority etc. please?

1v1 is indeed hard, and even Caeltos has mentioned that he thinks the game mode is too punishing.

I am not the most well versed in this mode, I'm pretty inconsistent, but I do know a thing or two. In 1v1 the game is far more about pressure than fighting, unlike 3v3 where you fight because there is no room to do anything else. Thus, your capping order changes depending on any of these factors:

- How mobile is your force/hero?
- How many units are you planning to put onto the field?
- Does your hero have any traits that let them cap more easily? E.g. teleport, infiltration, raw speed etc.
- How much pressure can you afford to put on your opponent?

If I was looking at this as Space Marines, I'd think "My force has mobility in its Scouts, I want to have double Scouts for extra capping, none of my heroes have traits early on that allow them to cap better except an FC with Iron Halo, and I may not be able to put too much pressure on my opponent since my force is composed largely of Scouts."

But why is this?
- Scouts are speed 6.5, so are unrivaled in most sprinting bouts. They can cross the map quickly and can infiltrate to help avoid being seen and aid in decapping. Scouts are a great unit to apply map pressure, not combat pressure (until upgraded). Use Scouts to cap peripherals early on since they'll always be the first there unless there is a fleeting Eldar hero, this way you avoid have to fight over these points a minute or so later and make your opponent take longer in decapping them.
- My heroes are fairly standard when it comes to speed, so not much point in marching an Apothecary up to the contested only to be greeted by Banshees. Exceptions can be made of course, and if you want a tanky unit to cap a contested item like a VP, the hero is the best one for it since they won't bleed. FCs are perfect for taking that contested on Green Tooth Gorge, they have a lot of health, decent damage and can retreat without dying fairly easily. However, if you want to concentrate your control and get all those natural points capped, he's best sent off in a lane where he is alone to maximise capping potential, and then wheel around to meet up with the rest of the army.
- Applying map pressure is key to engagements in the future because often enough your chunk of the map is your territory, and pushing into enemy territory is a great chance to disrupt their resources. If you can't fight head on, cap around, in different areas, and then keep probing until you can split them up or force them from an area.

Slightly rushed, but I hope it helped.

hastaga wrote:Can someone well versed at it write a guide about early game capping priority etc. please?

I agree, its hard and stressfull.... but also fun!^^
I struggle quite a bit with capping order myself even after countless games. I think most important is knowing your enemy.
Do spacemarines usually send their scouts in the mid to cap, or their Tacs? First, I want to get my DAs there, in the second case my banshees. How fast is this unit, and if I cap this, when will the enemy unit be here. If his unit caps that, when can he built another squad, have I the time.... and so on.
Its all about timings, and knowing your enemys timings.

But all this will probably not help you much (Codexs guide is really well made, but for a noob not really helpfull I feel. It helps more when you are at a high level and want to up your game and create some new strategys), so I also "request" (^^in a really nice way, if someone wants to help us out) a early capping guide for Eldar, especially Warpspider. I know its a lot of work, but I would appreciate it.

Else, Hastaga, I recommend watching the first minutes of highlevel 1v1s and looking at their cappingorder.

Going with both these points, I feel like this would also be the best format for a guide. A good player who just plays a game, and while doing it explains his standartplan and then his decisionmaking depending on the Situation. Torpids videos were very much in that way (with more stuff than only early capping order).

Toilailee wrote:http://www.dawnofwar.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=718

Can't stress this one enough. Otherwise, 1v1 as a game mode will just slow down for you as you grow accustomed to the different nature of the game.

its hard because all you make is mark of T and autocannons and then A-move them around ( yes it works sometimes )... i played 1 game with you and it was super cheesy. if you wanna do 1v1 you betta learn some new tricks and micro your units

Heh, Hastaga is at a perfectly decent level. Played with him more than a couple of times, he's just inexperienced when it comes to 1v1.

Funny story with regards to history, I know Hastaga from many years ago, like 10 now? I was applying to join his counter strike clan, then many years later I found out he played dow2 too

... cornholio, how your arse is still hurting after so long is beyond me. Not to mention I was beating you since t1 in that game. *sigh*

I do not respect people that have a small mind.
Let's not leave out the information that you were using the exact same thing as me. Chaos sorc. So that was definitely a skill matchup.

On a side note, I haven't built TCSM once yet I think, in 1v1. I've been playing against Jim Beam, who plays nids, and a few games against crewfinity, who used ork. So no, no TCSM. But I'm starting to win now I think, coz of noise marines, got a 2-2 from Jim ytd.

always up for 1v1's and am happy to give advice aftwerwards

in general try to go a lot heavier in T1 and contest the map more. always be capping and figuring out where the enemy forces are, how you can distract the opponent and make him use his resources inefficiently. if he has a blob of tacs on one side of the map, go cap the whole other side with an uninmportant unit while a suppression team protects anything important where the enemy is pushing.

In general, on early capping:

if you're trying to go a req heavy T1 (double tacs, double csm, etc) go for the req points first, get all your squads out onto the field while your squads are finishing up capping your natural points and scouting the enemy, and then push for contested points once you get your whole army together.

if you want to rush a T1.5 unit like havocs or devs, go for power ASAP and get a node while you grab contested points. then you can finish capping your natural points while you wait for your tech unit to build so you can lock down the map.

if you want to get a more expensive power T1 like asm or rushing shuricans as eldar, go for 2 gens ASAP and try to stall as long as you can.

If you want to channel your inner Noisy, rush 3 inexpensive squads and murder your opponent on map control by going for early vps and leveraging your early game map presence and godlike micro to demoralize and dominate your opponent all through T1.

Do you have any more specific questions? that one was super general

Thanks crewfinity

Let's talk about my experience after playing against jim for so many games.

He was using a lictor alpha.

Basically after the first game (which was a really fun bloodbath that I won), he figured that spore mines was the killer move against chaos sorc.
Ever since then I continuously lose to him, coz double tics just get murdered by spore mines (2 blast = 1 wipe)..... i think that's at least 8 defeats arow.

Well, learned a bit from that, such as capping order alike and how double tics are not viable against lictor alpha.

I still need the damage output though, so I turned to double CSM. The extra damage proved to be extremely successful in keeping him from afar. However,too slow and not enough offensive power (esp after jim went for a tunneler squad himself)

so my current build order against him consist of 5-6 squads... tic -> csm - tic -> csm -> noise marine
in larger maps i just try to stall for tic csm csm noise marine.

Noise marines play a pretty crucial role as they can effectively damage his blob and keep his melee kill stuff from hurting my CSM.
Thanks to them i got my 2 wins from him after a long long losing spree :0) (though he also defeated me twice the same day. Largely because I'm not managing my t1 power well.

Also, sword of flame ugprade and tic AC are crucial. That along with the 30 power from noise marine = very expensive (and all the req for the marines..)

-_- ...... any idea how to make things come out faster? or trim cost. The dilemma i'm facing here right now is that. Upgrades and 3 marines (csm csm noise) costs too much power and req. I am wondering should I make noise marine my 4th squad but I also worry that I won't have enough to protect the noise marine w/o a second CSM squad

hastaga wrote:Basically after the first game (which was a really fun bloodbath that I won), he figured that spore mines was the killer move against chaos sorc.
Ever since then I continuously lose to him, coz double tics just get murdered by spore mines (2 blast = 1 wipe)..... i think that's at least 8 defeats arow.

Well, learned a bit from that, such as capping order alike and how double tics are not viable against lictor alpha.

disagree with that, i think double tics can be totally viable vs the LA. spore mines are pretty scary, but by looking out for them and keeping your tics behind your front lines and stalling with worship you can play around them. they go down pretty quickly to focus fire from CSM or from the sorc himself smacking them, keep your tics safely away until they go down and then bring them into the engagements. it just takes more planning and micro

2 tics gives you a lot more capping power and map presence than waiting for a second CSM, as well as some additional crowd control and worship support. really 2 tics are a pretty standard sorc build imo, the infiltration and consuming potential really lets the sorc shine.

hastaga wrote:I still need the damage output though, so I turned to double CSM. The extra damage proved to be extremely successful in keeping him from afar. However,too slow and not enough offensive power (esp after jim went for a tunneler squad himself)

so my current build order against him consist of 5-6 squads... tic -> csm - tic -> csm -> noise marine
in larger maps i just try to stall for tic csm csm noise marine.

try getting havocs instead! super good vs nids. yeah the LA can counter them, but if you're setting them up under worship (as you should be) then it will be much harder for him to get the drop on you. the suppression and control that havocs give are amazing, especially combined with the worship to let them get into the right position and with doombolts as a followup to anything that gets suppressed. really cannot emphasize how much of a core unit this is to the sorcerer, it synergizes so well with his strategy. since he's not a big upfront damage dealer, your tactics should be controlling the enemy as much as possible to allow your abilities and damage dealers to have enough time to do their work.

hastaga wrote:Noise marines play a pretty crucial role as they can effectively damage his blob and keep his melee kill stuff from hurting my CSM.
Thanks to them i got my 2 wins from him after a long long losing spree :0) (though he also defeated me twice the same day. Largely because I'm not managing my t1 power well.

Also, sword of flame ugprade and tic AC are crucial. That along with the 30 power from noise marine = very expensive (and all the req for the marines..)

noise marines are great. if you want to be super sneaky, send the sorc to the enemy power farm while you build them, and then warp them as soon as they hit the field for a near instant power bash

these guys also synergize really well with havocs. sword of flame is nice but i would get out other squads first, and AC on a tics squad first as well since it lets them support havocs, go toe to toe with enemy melee, and see the LA if he tries to get close.

in general, get boyz before toyz. the additional map presence from another squad will help a lot more in the early game than increased performance from one of your existing squads.

hastaga wrote:-_- ...... any idea how to make things come out faster? or trim cost. The dilemma i'm facing here right now is that. Upgrades and 3 marines (csm csm noise) costs too much power and req. I am wondering should I make noise marine my 4th squad but I also worry that I won't have enough to protect the noise marine w/o a second CSM squad

play more conservatively in the early game! keep in mind, every time you lose a model increases the time before your next unit hits the field. sorc is really good at stalling with worship, so use that! get your CSM in green cover and infiltrate them with tics, and start doombolting the enemy until he commits to an engagement. you should rush havocs imo, so once they hit the field you can pull back until they can cover you.
2 CSM works a lot better with PC and CL in my opinion, sorcerer is too reliant on tic support and havocs as crowd control, 2 CSM is a strong damage source but leaves you lacking in control options, so artillery or jump squads could ruin your day.

like i said hastaga... cheecy stuff can work...the other game we played in 3v3.. you just spammed bloodletters and it dident work... just trying to give you some advice... spam is not the best idea in 1v1... watch some good games with noisy and tex .. never hurts... and listen to crew he knows a fair deal about 1v1.

idk wt do you mean spamming blood letterer didn't work. It wasn't you who was laning against me anyway, but an Eldar player.
Your Eldar teammate also got 2 squads of those heavy infantry units (edit: reapers). My blood letters killed them both + his guardian squad and his avatar (I think I lost my raptor squad and an AC tic squad). I was merely adjusting my unit choice based on my opp's units. Don't get cocky now just because I couldn't cross the map diagonally to play against you. Were you the target I had focused on, since you were playing PC, I would definitely not get melee units to fight you, for obvious reasons.

As a reminder I also didn't bother getting double CSM against Eldar, nor did I turn the CSM squad into TCSM.

In case you didn't notice, that was a reason why you found me using a setup squad against you, a sorc, in that game which your butt is still hurting for. I pick what I think is the most efficient based on my opponent. Please stop crying/accusing your opp for 'cheesy' when you can't even use the convenient tools available to you to answer a strategy properly. Either you don't want to win, or you are outmatched. It is simple as that.

those heavy dudes?.. you mean wraithguard?.... whatever makes you happy... just saying that your "style" maybe is the reason you find 1v1 hard

Is flameposting Hastaga really necessary? Is your epeen so deflated at this point that somehow calling him out on terminology makes you feel better?

On a more relevant note, if you want to play, you can always ask me, I'm not always around but I should play this game more often.

Yeah I'm gonna step in and say that Hastaga wanted some help, so no unhelpful posts anymore please.

Hi

EDIT - not implying your a newb with my links to L2P below but there were some cool tips hidden in the tutorials below such as cunning stuff on positioning while capping that were quite advanced

There is the old tutorials on the Gamereplays.org site. Suggests starting with the tip of the week section
http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/p ... =tips&st=0

Plus some old stuff from Project L2P on the RTS-Sanc site
http://www.rts-sanctuary.com/index.php? ... wforum=297

Is the ProjectL2P website gone?

Some of the casters from the old days used to do some L2P casts but you would have to dig back
eg Harlequincasts newbie tuesdays