Dawn of War Codex

I have my own mod (True 40K) and i need a lot of help redesigning a hero that I already made for the Space Marines. I made this hero 2 years ago and I feel now is the time to change him. The Hero is a Command Squad and what i have created lacks luster to me. I feel like it needs massive changes or a completely redo in how the hero is designed. So i'll give a pretty brief explanation on what my goal is for the hero. Please feel free to give me advice or completely change his hero around so i can make a something that people would enjoy playing.

Keep in mind all squads in my mod have increased squad sizes ( examples: guardsmen max is 16 when fully upgraded, guants are 15 fully upgraded and are least level 3)

When I first started designing the command squad it was supposed to be the basic functionality of all the Space Marine hero along with some support abilities to make him a little different. I wanted him to be a little durable and have some fluff. So the Squad (hero) is lead by a Company champion, and 2 Space Marine tactical marines accompany him. Similar to the LG the tacs will die before the Company Champion (CC).
One Of these tacs cost 83 req to reinforce and they can do so in the field while taking 15 seconds to reinforce. Their weapons also change based on what the weapon upgrade is. Their starting hp is a bit better than normal tacs at 375 health. Their damage per hit with their bolter is 18 (lowered tac bolter to 18 as well) and their melee is also 18 (same as tacs)while their melee skill is 60.
The Company Champion has worse stats in general than his companions. I didnt want it better because then he would be way too tanky early game. His starting health is 300. his pistol (while 38 max range) does 15 damage per hit (same dps as an assault marine with bolt pistol). He does 20 power melee per hit and has a melee skill of 60.

now to his upgrades (needs big changes here).

First his accessories, these add to his squad like LG. Each squad member was supposed to add to a specific build. Apart from the Apothecary upgrade of course. All of these models have 60 melee skill.

The first is an apothecary. All he does is a heal, and the range on the heal is 20. It cannot level but the heal increase based on health the targeted squad has. Because there is two instances to the heal. One is a flat 45 health heal. The other is a 10% of max health heal. 60 energy and 30 seconds cooldown time. Starts with a bolter (same stats as the tacs in the Command Squad). 120/20

The second is a Veteran. All he does is add pure damage to the squad. No abilities. When you get certain weapon upgrades his loadout will change (Bolter, same stats but melee is a bit better). Used to have an ability that increase range damage bad weapon range but i removed it awhile ago. 120/30 t2

The third (and it will be removed since although I makes fluff sense it doesn't fit in the game atm). Is a banner bearer. Since this is a specific model i cannot change his wargear options so that's why he will be removed. But he buff nearby units (passively and at a very close range of 10) and increases their melee skill by 1 and increases their max health by 20 hp flat. But it will be totally removed. 100/20 t2

Weapons now. The Weapon upgrade are to be offensive and pretty much add but bring more damage to the table but not be overwhelming in how much he brings. I have made 3 weapon upgrades.

One is a combat shield upgrade that increases his damage in melee by 100% (40 power melee per hit) gives his squad chainswords (same as apothecary default weapon at 25 damage per hit and bolt pistols doing 15 damage per hit), increases their melee skill by 10 and alsos the Company Champion alone to have a 30% chance to knockback and enemy when his in melee (almost no flight distance and knockback strength), so affected units would get up in a good half a second. This would give the apothecary a chainsword and bolt pistol (same stats). Veteran would get a plasma pistol and a power claw (15 damage per hit on plasma pistol, 40 power melee damage per hit with power claw). 135/30 t1 (note that this upgrade doesn't give him a charge, felt that the amount of damage he alone can do in melee should be kiteable and the pistols have a max range of 22)

Hellfire bolts. Similar to Plague Marines, PC and Sternguard, this allows DoT to units hit by the bolters (and cc's bolt pistol) in the squad. Does increase their initial dps but adds a 1.5 damage per second for 5 seconds when hit. 100/25 t2

Plasma guns. The CC get a plasma pistol, the apothecary doesn't get any love from this upgrade, the tacs and the veteran get the plasma guns. They do 30 plasma damage per hit and the plasma pistol does 15 (range is 38 though). 120/30 t2

I only have two armor upgrade and they are to buff targeted squads.

One is to increase a squad's movement speed by 3.5 for 5 seconds costs 75 energy with a cooldown of 30. Can only be targeted on a Space Marine unit (cannot target self). The speed increase is exclusive so it doesn't stack. 100/25 t2

The other is pretty much an energy pack. What i does is add energy and increases their energy regen. for 5 seconds. However if a squad uses an ability while under the effect of this buff then any ability they use has its cooldown reduced by 40%. If the ability is already in cooldown when the squad get hit by this buff then its ability does not get a benefit from the ability cooldown. 120/30 t2

The his exclusive global is,

Hold Fast! : Break suppression. When a squad is in cover they cannot be knocked down or suppressed and take 15% less damage from all sources (exclusive). 75 red.

then I copied and pasted hellfury strike.

I tried to have the Hold fast! global and the armor upgrade be the way that this hero supported his units (since buffing a whole SM army is just stupid OP) and defending to an extent.

The weapon upgrade and the veteran member was supposed to be this squad offensive ability and not offering anything more than just more damage. The weapons were also supposed to make the whole squad into a single type of unit and fit into a role and changing the weapon made the whole squads role change (another reason why banner bearer has to go). Bu the hero wasn't supposed to excel at doing the damage just help out or baby sit (the combat shield weapon).

The apothecary is something i wanted to add because of the fluff and because i wanted the Command squad a little of every commander just not as effective in the same role. I added the health percent because i didn't want the heal to be completely useless on terminators but good in infantry and vice versa. The apothecary doesn't get a healing aura too. Just want to point that out.

The only things that will not be removed from the Hero is it being a squad, the apothecary, and the Hold Fast global. Although I will listen to changes as always.

I think this hero i created back then is shit and needs big changes. And if anyone want to give me some ideas or suggest a change that is all welcome. And If you need more information about something i'll provide that too when asked.

Nevermind. Figure out somethings about this hero that would fit it. I want him to be a "jack of all trade master of none." I wanted him to rely on his army rather than what he could do himself. But I didn't want him to buff an SM army since that would be a bit too powerful imo. So i came up with this and I think it would fit him.

He will get an exclusive squad to him alone. It will be a squad that can be a (not as good as tacs of course) that can be have (for a limited amount of time) specialist weapons toward a specific armor type. And they can upgrade for no cost. But it will take 20 second to switch upgrades. These upgrade come with an ability that allows them to switch their bolters for the specialist (melta gun instead of missile launcher, thought "suddenly AV" should be short range) weapon (10 or 12 second duration i haven't decided yet) with a fairly long cd time so you can't spam it. There is only one upgrade that doesn't do that. The upgrade is the Chainswords and Bolt pistols. The whole squad get them as well as a teleporter. Teleporter has a fairly short range and a fairly long cooldown (15 seconds). And their weapons will do the same dps as an Apothecary's default chainsword and ASM bolt pistol (note they aren't supposed to fight toe to toe with melee squads, they will get owned, they are just supposed to function as crappy ASM). Their stats will be the same as Tactical Marines. This Veteran Squad will just be there to fill in a role that is left vacant by a lost squad. SO say you lost an ASM squad these guys can take the role (to an extent). Thought this would work out for this hero since he will depend on his army more than what he can do himself a squad lose would hurt him even more than others. Go ahead and give any suggestions or concerns you see here.

The other thing that will be make more different is this. His units can level up to 5. Instead of level 4 being the max. In my mod leveling is a bit different but basic stats are increased by 7% instead of 10% and melee skill goes up for level 2 and level 4 only (for melee squads ranged squads it stays 1 increment per level). And level 3 is something that give the squad a bit extra rather than just more health and damage. Sometimes its one of the other. If its an increase in stats it is one specific thing. Like health of damage. And it is just another 7% increase in that field.

Reason is i didn't want level 4 squad to completely own level 1 squad (like if you replaced your ASM or tacs). Level 4 ASM will still beat level 1 ASM but the ASM would still be able to fill the role that their fallen battle brothers did.

However reaching level 5 on your units will not mean another 7%. Since I don't want level 5 units to rekt level 1 unit of the same name the boost will be 5% instead of 7%. However I still think that is pretty significant. And I think it fits how i want the Command Squad to be. However Vehicles (except for razorbacks) will not be able to get to level 5. I think if they did the Command Squad would turn OP. But that's just what I think. Ill add it if i see him still underperforming but i doubt it with all his infantry being able to get to level 5.

Voice any concerns please. Since this is only on paper atm. What do you think? If you need more info on trying to understand what up i'll provide it. I only give the basics to try and keep the post short. Thanks.

Hi

It is a bit hard to comment without knowing what you have done to the general playstyle of the game in your mod.

I am going to assume you haven't changed too much (like doubling income or something) so armies are going to be the same size.

The basic design of the game is that there are few squads, each one is valuable and heroes are very powerful and durable so they can solo stuff. Also abilities are generally overpowered and cheesy.

In that setting your commander needs to have serious beef, which is why i think you have found your initial design lack-lustre. Although i felt the 100% melee damage increase with upgrade is a bit over the top (unless you intend him to be useless without an upgrade and only then reach his potential). if you have made all heroes support heroes your first design makes more sense.

in the second design, if Veteran squad is going to "cover" for killed squads in multiple roles they are going to need more health than standard tacs especially if they are actively going into melee.

In retail game levelling is 10% for marines and CSM and 15% for non-HI units. You need to remember that a levelled tier one sqaud needs to be fighting tier two squads so levelling needs to be good enough for that. In comparison in COH2 i believe (from casts) that squads have 5 levels and a level 5 squad is basically 50% better than a level 1 squad which is quite a lot (not sure of the stats here, 10% levelling would be 60% better but 15% levelling would be 100% better)

Are you changing all heroes into squad leaders? Not sure this hero sounds very fun if he cant run in and solo stuff but might make sense depending on the rest of your mod.

Edit - I am assuming you have actually created some of the mod and not the whole mod is on paper

I could make more than an essay on what i want to create. ANd its not easy. Honestly i am pretty sure the idea i have will be rejected by the public due to the fact it will be so much different. Play styles will have to change. Movability and map awareness are favored more than sitting back a camping a certain area of the map.

I say that because the maps will be A LOT larger (there will be relay points that will act as a forward base to retreat too and more). They have to be for the play style i want. There are numerous things that i cannot do atm and one of them that I really looked forward to was having a territory type of aspect that affected upgrade times and resources (which i can do but i can't define territory yet). I had to add in another VP but it's a destructible one.

I want war to feel more like war. Its hard to explain but war isn't just getting units an clashing heads. Now that is in the mod (and its really really cool to see it in action when it kicks off) but securing advantages positions. I want to make a mod that really pushes teamwork. I wanted a better comeback mechanic and maneuverability was the answer. Because it is now so important eldar webway gates has a 3 gate limit. The Hq acts as a webway so there won't be a need to build one at base. Ravener tunnels have increased range but a long cd than now and increased energy cost. Techmarine relay beacon cost 10 pop instead of 5 since that building won't just help hold a part of the map now. Its second role is to support a push.

Certain points in the map will provide a global bonus. decent cooldown but it will help give you an edge in the fight. Or one will provide extra vision (farsight without the keen sight). One point is where a player will be able to call in a AI whom is hostile to both team. (Like the AI is native to that map and is trying to defend it type of deal). Some points will activate turrets to harass the enemy (can be disabled). Players can destroy bridges to reduce quick access to a certain part of the map. Some points will give a team control over a gate (working on that though) so they can open or close it. A player can also destroy the gate.

There will be simple hazards in the map. Like flames (small damage over time). Or mines (will only suppress) that spawn periodically (a valkyrie will drop them of course).

There are tunnels that grant access from one edge of the map to the other. Flanking is more important etc

A player will have to control 1.75 armies (1 to fight with, .67 to flank and support with, .08 to cap the map with). Knowing a lot is require of the player is why i want the player to activate certain abilities that will force that squad to do a set of specific actions. Like Move-A to this point and then capture it. So the player can focus on other things.

Melee has be randomize a little more. If a entity is under 40% health and their target's health is over 70% than that entity gets a 5% special attack override until their target goes under 70% health or if they have their health percentage go over 40%.

I could go on but these are the big changes (due to the map being large there are more points meaning those point have a reduced resource rate). And like i said most people wont like this. But I want to try and create a RTS game that i would want to play. Something that I think people who really enjoy strategizing would want to play. Since they have almost complete control. They can play the map. They can change the map. They can capture a gen to control turrets to help for pushing against the enemy. They can close the gates as your enemy is coming in and cut them off. When the help of Myrdal am able to have a supply depot type of element in the game where an enemy can take those supplies for themselves or destroy it so neither player can have it. There are so much more. But that how it is simply opn what i want to create.


Now to the response of those units.

You might be right on the Command Squad (hero). i really didn't want him to be a hero that causes a headache I wanted his units to cause headaches without him being there. But I didn't want him to be useless. Which he isn't useless at all. But he isn't too scary by himself. Now he can still stand up in melee, he is durable and can deal with t1 melee squads with their squad leaders (except shees and stormboyz) so it's not that he sticks. It just felt like he wasn't unique. That's mainly what I meant by lack luster. And I think units leveling to 5 instead of the max being 4 is a good start.

I understand that leveling is huge. But I don't want the lose of one squad to mean "thats gg." I wanted having a level 4 squad to be less impactable but still well worth it. I wanted them better than a level 1 of the same squad. But I didn't want them totally outclassed. Just outclassed. So i went for the approach i did.

As for the Veteran Squad. I think ill take the suggestion. However they will only get the health increase with they have the melee upgrade. They are versatile, have a squad leader that doesn't cost power and can become a specialist squad (for a limited amount of time) without having to pay for it. I think tac health for the squad is more than enough.

I wonder if this is still a thing...

This sounds like a great mod you have going, and I'd love to see it released at some point. Perhaps it could somehow be incorporated into the Elite mod system - like, all these awesome custom maps could be part of the Elite mod's next update? It sounds absolutely glorious.

As for the specific command squad idea, I agree with KanKrusha - don't be afraid to make your heros a bit OP! Besides, it can always be fixed later

Keep up the awesome work, and keep us posted! Do you have a site where we can view what you already have?

well it is possible to make the mod be incorporated into Elite. It would just be tedious.