A Gentle Suggestion

[Ordie]

Dear Forum,

I have noticed a pattern in both the Balance Discussion and the Strategy Discussion threads.

Overwhelmingly, the Balance Discussion section describes a problem that is seen with the game, and a proposed solution to the problem.

Example: "Mark of Tzeentch Chaos Space Marine shoot the crap out of my Space Marine army before they can even get into combat , so we should nerf the damage of Mark of Tzeentch. "

The conversation following this type of comment is almost always about army composition, economy issues, micro ability, with a side order of flaming. Unfortunately, this discussion does not address my major concern, I am being outshot by MoT CSM, and the game is no longer fun for me. Instead, I suggest posting in the Strategy Discussion section of the forums.

Example: "I am playing a lot of Apothecary, and in t2 I have a lot of trouble dealing with 2 MoT CSM. If I get ASM, the enemy has them split, and my ASM get shot down before they can be very effective. The only solution I have found it to get a dreadnought, though if the enemy responds with AV (or worse, preempts with AV), I end up in the unfortunate position of having my Dread countered, and my infantry countered, and I am all together screwed. How does a SM APO counter double MoT CSM?"

This type of conversation, overwhelmingly has led to two things. 1) a lively and helpful conversation that provides advice on how to overcome this challenge, and/or 2) a discussion by the community that indicates that there is no way to overcome this match-up. In many cases, if the community agrees there is no way to overcome the issue, there will be a change in the next patch addressing the concern.

I suggest that, should you feel frustrated by an aspect of the game, ask for help in the Strategy Discussion around the issue you have. I believe you will see better results.

[Interdiction]

Thank you for saying this...just...thank you. Not knowing a counter doesn't equal unbalanced(in most cases).

[saltychipmunk]

Question, how do you separate topics worth discussion in a balance forum and one that should be in strategy?

I will be to first to admit that a good bunch of stuff in the balance forum sprouts from a general lack of experience from one or more parties . but if said party is inexperienced then by definition they probably lack the know how to make the distinction between asking for help and making a statement on balance.

To me it would seem that doing either will naturally lead to bleed over in to the other.

person A says I need help
persons B C and D might strait up say well the thing you need help with is actually a balance issue that might need to be looked at in addition to any strategical or tactical advice given.

conversely

person A says I think this is UP or OP and here is why
persons B C and D can easily say no it is not and here are the various strategies and tactics one can use to show how it is not.

In the end it is people who choose where to take that conversation and giving it a different label probably wont change that.

[Ordie]

A fair question Salty.

I was not hoping to create a hard and fast rule for dividing topics of conversation, I truly did mean it simply as a gentle suggestion.

Ideally, my hope would be that all balance questions begin by checking strategy first, and then should no counterplay be available, it becomes a balance question.

[Cyris]

Completely agree OP. When largely inexperienced players roll in and throw around what they see as manditory sweeping balance changes without much context, it should come as no suprise that they will only cause fights between them, experienced players, and random people with a bone to pick against XYZ unit or race.

By contrast, asking for tips and build orders tends to go a LOT better (though less posts generally!) This happens regardless of if it's in the Balance or Strategy section, or even General TBH.

It's fun telling players tips on how to use sentinels, it's an excersize in futility and rage to explain that sentinels do not need buffs

[Dark Riku]

Give this man a title: "most sensible new forum member" or something more catchy

[engi_valk]

I posted one recently and the conversation in mine http://dawnofwar.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2152 was actually perfectly civil and generated good discussion. Its not the posting balance changes that is the problem, its how these members do them.

I went in doing a lot of research, crunching numbers, talking about the strategy behind the problem and while my suggestion was wrong and came from a lack of experience the replies are got are very helpful and real discussion