Hey everyone!
I noticed that the 2.5 Elite released featured numerous AI adjustments, which is fantastic news for a few friends of mine that now play Dawn of War II with me. With help from Wise Windu, my friends and I have been using a quick and easy mod I created to make power nodes auto-attackable again, considering that the AI cannot target them in the standard Elite mod.
If the developers are unable to make the AI target power nodes, I was wondering if the developers were possibly considering alternatives such as creating 4 additional AI compatible game modes. For example, in addition to Annihilate, Free for All, Team Free for All and Victory Point Control, the developers could add Annihilate (AI Compatible), Free for All (AI Compatible), Team Free for All (AI Compatible) and Victory Point Control (AI Compatible). In these modified custom game modes, the old power node data could be used, thus making them auto-targetable again.
I know that the AI probably isn't exactly a large concern for the Elite community and I myself don't even care if it gets developed further because my friends and I have our mod, but this is merely a suggestion – a reasonable suggestion, I think, considering the amount of work that was put into the AI this patch.
If the Victory Point Control game mode can add Victory Points to each map, I don't see why a custom AI compatible version of each game mode couldn't use the old power node data. Does anyone with modding experience know if this is even possible? If it is, would it be easy to implement?
[Suggestion] AI Compatible Victory Conditions
Re: [Suggestion] AI Compatible Victory Conditions
To be honest, playing against real people is a lot more fun.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
Re: [Suggestion] AI Compatible Victory Conditions
I definitely agree that playing with and against other players is more fun, but that's not what I'm getting at. I think you're missing the core purpose of my initial post.
Numerous AI changes were made in the new 2.5 version and they are somewhat in vain because the AI is incapable of recapturing fortified power nodes. Regardless of the game mode, Victory points are featured in every single map — they're just hidden if you choose a game mode such as Annihilate. Victory points are only visible in the Victory Point Control game modes. If the Elite developers were able to create a second power node ebp that is auto-targetable, put it into every map on top of the pre-existing power nodes (overlap them) and only make the newly created power nodes visible in custom created AI Compatible game modes (for Annihilate, Victory Point Control, etc), AI changes / developments would be much more meaningful.
I'm sure the Elite team appreciates KanKrusha's contribution to the AI, as do I and probably many others. Multiplayer PVP is definitely the focus of the Elite mod, and I agree as I've said, but there will always be people out there who want to have an occasional skirmish against the AI. Two of my friends in particular enjoy cooperative games and they always prefer playing against the AI. I enjoy having an occasional comp stomp myself. Having a decent, functional AI also increases the replay value of any game, doesn't matter what type of game it is or how it should be played.
The point is: if the Elite developers are starting to make adjustments to the AI, why not consider creating game modes where they would be much more functional? If it is impossible to make the AI manually target reinforced power nodes, add vanilla-style power nodes to each map and enable them for four new modified game modes: Annihilate (AI Compatible), Victory Point Control (AI Compatible), and so on, while hiding the non-auto-attackable power nodes in these same game modes. If this can be done with victory points, I'm sure it can be done with a second type of power node.
I'm sure the developers know what they're doing though, considering this is a fantastic mod. Who knows, maybe they already have a solution in the works. Anyways, I'm not ranting or anything, I'm just offering some feedback and suggestions that seem plausible in my opinion.
Numerous AI changes were made in the new 2.5 version and they are somewhat in vain because the AI is incapable of recapturing fortified power nodes. Regardless of the game mode, Victory points are featured in every single map — they're just hidden if you choose a game mode such as Annihilate. Victory points are only visible in the Victory Point Control game modes. If the Elite developers were able to create a second power node ebp that is auto-targetable, put it into every map on top of the pre-existing power nodes (overlap them) and only make the newly created power nodes visible in custom created AI Compatible game modes (for Annihilate, Victory Point Control, etc), AI changes / developments would be much more meaningful.
I'm sure the Elite team appreciates KanKrusha's contribution to the AI, as do I and probably many others. Multiplayer PVP is definitely the focus of the Elite mod, and I agree as I've said, but there will always be people out there who want to have an occasional skirmish against the AI. Two of my friends in particular enjoy cooperative games and they always prefer playing against the AI. I enjoy having an occasional comp stomp myself. Having a decent, functional AI also increases the replay value of any game, doesn't matter what type of game it is or how it should be played.
The point is: if the Elite developers are starting to make adjustments to the AI, why not consider creating game modes where they would be much more functional? If it is impossible to make the AI manually target reinforced power nodes, add vanilla-style power nodes to each map and enable them for four new modified game modes: Annihilate (AI Compatible), Victory Point Control (AI Compatible), and so on, while hiding the non-auto-attackable power nodes in these same game modes. If this can be done with victory points, I'm sure it can be done with a second type of power node.
I'm sure the developers know what they're doing though, considering this is a fantastic mod. Who knows, maybe they already have a solution in the works. Anyways, I'm not ranting or anything, I'm just offering some feedback and suggestions that seem plausible in my opinion.
Re: [Suggestion] AI Compatible Victory Conditions
I do know what you mean, and it was my casual way of saying: try playing real opponents, the AI will always be worthless even with improvements.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
Re: [Suggestion] AI Compatible Victory Conditions
I'd actually like to see something like this if it's an easy enough add.
My buddies and I play pretty exclusively among ourselves (usually just 2v2) because we prefer playing in a more casual atmosphere and getting to trash talk each other is tons of fun. When there are fewer of us, we tend to play the game against the AI and just treat it like co-op. We add a bit of challenge by trying themed army builds, limiting how far we'll tech, etc. I mention this because I've seen the argument of 'play online, it's better' so many times, and I just find it odd that suggestions for AI improvements are so often dismissed, even though they're of no detriment to those who don't play AI. Let everyone enjoy the game and mod in the way they find most fun is my thought.
My buddies and I play pretty exclusively among ourselves (usually just 2v2) because we prefer playing in a more casual atmosphere and getting to trash talk each other is tons of fun. When there are fewer of us, we tend to play the game against the AI and just treat it like co-op. We add a bit of challenge by trying themed army builds, limiting how far we'll tech, etc. I mention this because I've seen the argument of 'play online, it's better' so many times, and I just find it odd that suggestions for AI improvements are so often dismissed, even though they're of no detriment to those who don't play AI. Let everyone enjoy the game and mod in the way they find most fun is my thought.
"Into the fires of battle, unto the Anvil of War!"
Re: [Suggestion] AI Compatible Victory Conditions
Greetings, just registered to reply to this actually. Does this mean that the current AI behavior of CPU not attacking built power nodes is not going to be patched in a future update?
My friends and I are primarily comp-stompers. We have fun stacking certain AI factions against us, or intentionally handicapping ourselves in other ways. We just don't enjoy playing against people online. It's just personal preference.
We're back on retail DoW 2: Retribution at the moment, but enjoy the GK, maps, army schemes Elite Mod offers. Anyway, hope it will be addressed, and if not, many thanks for the work on the mod and let us all pray for the release of DoW: 3!
-Sark
My friends and I are primarily comp-stompers. We have fun stacking certain AI factions against us, or intentionally handicapping ourselves in other ways. We just don't enjoy playing against people online. It's just personal preference.
We're back on retail DoW 2: Retribution at the moment, but enjoy the GK, maps, army schemes Elite Mod offers. Anyway, hope it will be addressed, and if not, many thanks for the work on the mod and let us all pray for the release of DoW: 3!
-Sark
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