Ork balance depending on time
Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2016 12:11 pm
If you look at the statistics, you can see that orks reeaaaaally struggle for the first 5 minutes.
Then it starts to be okay-ish for the next 5 minutes.
And then Ork power explodes from 10 to 30 minutes.
What's fun though, is that total winning ratio balance seems fine at ~50%.
So, what are the problems, and how to resolve them.
early T1 : no power, no upgrades, no T1.5 units involved : orks are on the backfoot.
IMO, early T1 needs a buff on unupgraded sluggaz and shootaz.
But not just a simple buff, also a nerf to their upgrades to compensate for a buff, and keep them exactly the same as they are when fully upgraded. (upgrades in T1, I'll talk about slugga nob later)
What about buffing HP of sluggaz from 100 to 110, and nerfing burna upgrade from +20% hp to +10%. (so it stays the same : 120hp sluggas when upgraded)
And buffing shootas damage from 12 to 14 (still lower than dire avengers), and nerfing big shootas damage from 28 to 25. So full squad stays @92 damage when upgraded with BS, and losing a simple shoota model will have more impact than before on overall squad damage.
Not sure about the shoota nob though. This thing is a beast. Way too good, leaders dying last is a cancer in this game imo, but that's a totally different topic.
Maybe decreasing his damage from 40 to 30, so shoota squad with nob and without big shootas keep the same total damage as now, and then with BS upgraded, damage comes back to 40, same damage as now. Not sure if it can be done though.
So, buff to early T1, then T1.5 and upgraded T1 squads stays exactly the same as now. I know it can be dangerous to buff early T1, it can have a snowballing effect. But with nerf to upgrades, I hope it won't affect the game too much.
Then comes T2 => orks start leading the fight. Why ?
T2 units have low power costs compared to other races. What does it mean ? weaker T2 units, but coming sooner. Mainly wartrukk and deffdread.
They can't compete with equivalent in other races on paper, falcon/razorback/rhino/chimera vs wartrukk, or wraithlord/dreadnoughts vs deffdread.
The only reason they are good is the timing. When the opponent has not yet a counter, or has not yet the equivalent unit fielded.
If you nerf deffdread and trukk, power wise, they lose all their main interest. Sure, they still are good, but if a trukk comes at the same time as a razorback, what's the point...
The ork player has to exploit the small time window deffdread or wartrukk gives to him, keep in mind that it's important for Orks to be faster in T3 than others, because their T2 can't compete with others T2 on the long run.
So if you keep wanting to nerf them power wise, then ork T2 MUST be buffed in other ways.
Orks have been designed to be cheaper in T2, and weaker if T2 game last too long, when the opponent has all his own T2 units fielded, and I'd like to keep that.
Something else than a blind nerf to power costs has to be found.
What about increasing reinforce time around wartrukk, when not upgraded with the armor thing. (if it can be done...)
Something like reinforce time x 1.1 : first slugga to be reinforced comes 2.2sec later instead of 2sec, then 2d slugga comes 4.4sec instead of 4, etc.
Or maybe more if not enough (x1.2), but we have to be really carefull with this.
And then wartrukk armor upgrade returns reinforce time back to normal => that's a 30 power upgrade. delay tech.
I buy this upgrade only when when I want to use tankbustas in the trukk, rarely when I'm using sluggas in the trukk. But maybe that's just me ?
Add to that a blind nerf to slugga nob, hp wise. Dunno how much to be honest. But he feels a little bit too good right now, way too tanky and too strong. It has to be one or the other, not both.
If you reduce hp, he will be more prone to die, and to be repurchased => delays tech again, OR to not be repurchased => sluggas not that scary anymore, even with a trukk.
And for the deff dread, I wouldn't touch him, it's not that scary. If you want to keep him alive, the upgrade is a must, and it delays tech. So no change for deffdread imo.
Then T3 comes => ork still lead
I'd say T3 is kinda fine honestly. What's strong in orks T3 is not the units in T3, they ARE strong obviously. But as other races T3 units (well, maybe not IG according to the statistics ?). What's strong in ork T3 is the timing imo.
If you do the change I wrote previously, I think ork T3 will come at the very very very best as fast as right now. Not faster. Only as fast if you play better, or later if you play equally to your opponent.
But that's only theorycraft...
Last point. Late T3 in really long games. Orks are again on the backfoot.
I'd change only one thing in T3 to deal with long games : add a T3 upgrade to shootaz : repair kit, for something like 60/20. Only gives repairing ability. Nothing more. Well maybe add the possibility to build banners ? don't know, haven't tried banners yet.
Maintaining sluggaz alive in late T3 is generally not a good idea (if you haven't lost them already). They are only good to repair and cap behind the ork army.
And if they died, tanks start to be a bad idea => impossible to repair if you are not in a team game, or with the mekboy. Buying back a slugga squad for repair when you're in T3 is a real pain : req wise, and pop wise.
All other races have ranged repairing squads, and will generally have at least one repair squad alive. Keeping a ranged squad alive is easier than a melee squad in this game.
So, what do you guys think ?
Then it starts to be okay-ish for the next 5 minutes.
And then Ork power explodes from 10 to 30 minutes.
What's fun though, is that total winning ratio balance seems fine at ~50%.
So, what are the problems, and how to resolve them.
early T1 : no power, no upgrades, no T1.5 units involved : orks are on the backfoot.
IMO, early T1 needs a buff on unupgraded sluggaz and shootaz.
But not just a simple buff, also a nerf to their upgrades to compensate for a buff, and keep them exactly the same as they are when fully upgraded. (upgrades in T1, I'll talk about slugga nob later)
What about buffing HP of sluggaz from 100 to 110, and nerfing burna upgrade from +20% hp to +10%. (so it stays the same : 120hp sluggas when upgraded)
And buffing shootas damage from 12 to 14 (still lower than dire avengers), and nerfing big shootas damage from 28 to 25. So full squad stays @92 damage when upgraded with BS, and losing a simple shoota model will have more impact than before on overall squad damage.
Not sure about the shoota nob though. This thing is a beast. Way too good, leaders dying last is a cancer in this game imo, but that's a totally different topic.
Maybe decreasing his damage from 40 to 30, so shoota squad with nob and without big shootas keep the same total damage as now, and then with BS upgraded, damage comes back to 40, same damage as now. Not sure if it can be done though.
So, buff to early T1, then T1.5 and upgraded T1 squads stays exactly the same as now. I know it can be dangerous to buff early T1, it can have a snowballing effect. But with nerf to upgrades, I hope it won't affect the game too much.
Then comes T2 => orks start leading the fight. Why ?
T2 units have low power costs compared to other races. What does it mean ? weaker T2 units, but coming sooner. Mainly wartrukk and deffdread.
They can't compete with equivalent in other races on paper, falcon/razorback/rhino/chimera vs wartrukk, or wraithlord/dreadnoughts vs deffdread.
The only reason they are good is the timing. When the opponent has not yet a counter, or has not yet the equivalent unit fielded.
If you nerf deffdread and trukk, power wise, they lose all their main interest. Sure, they still are good, but if a trukk comes at the same time as a razorback, what's the point...
The ork player has to exploit the small time window deffdread or wartrukk gives to him, keep in mind that it's important for Orks to be faster in T3 than others, because their T2 can't compete with others T2 on the long run.
So if you keep wanting to nerf them power wise, then ork T2 MUST be buffed in other ways.
Orks have been designed to be cheaper in T2, and weaker if T2 game last too long, when the opponent has all his own T2 units fielded, and I'd like to keep that.
Something else than a blind nerf to power costs has to be found.
What about increasing reinforce time around wartrukk, when not upgraded with the armor thing. (if it can be done...)
Something like reinforce time x 1.1 : first slugga to be reinforced comes 2.2sec later instead of 2sec, then 2d slugga comes 4.4sec instead of 4, etc.
Or maybe more if not enough (x1.2), but we have to be really carefull with this.
And then wartrukk armor upgrade returns reinforce time back to normal => that's a 30 power upgrade. delay tech.
I buy this upgrade only when when I want to use tankbustas in the trukk, rarely when I'm using sluggas in the trukk. But maybe that's just me ?
Add to that a blind nerf to slugga nob, hp wise. Dunno how much to be honest. But he feels a little bit too good right now, way too tanky and too strong. It has to be one or the other, not both.
If you reduce hp, he will be more prone to die, and to be repurchased => delays tech again, OR to not be repurchased => sluggas not that scary anymore, even with a trukk.
And for the deff dread, I wouldn't touch him, it's not that scary. If you want to keep him alive, the upgrade is a must, and it delays tech. So no change for deffdread imo.
Then T3 comes => ork still lead
I'd say T3 is kinda fine honestly. What's strong in orks T3 is not the units in T3, they ARE strong obviously. But as other races T3 units (well, maybe not IG according to the statistics ?). What's strong in ork T3 is the timing imo.
If you do the change I wrote previously, I think ork T3 will come at the very very very best as fast as right now. Not faster. Only as fast if you play better, or later if you play equally to your opponent.
But that's only theorycraft...
Last point. Late T3 in really long games. Orks are again on the backfoot.
I'd change only one thing in T3 to deal with long games : add a T3 upgrade to shootaz : repair kit, for something like 60/20. Only gives repairing ability. Nothing more. Well maybe add the possibility to build banners ? don't know, haven't tried banners yet.
Maintaining sluggaz alive in late T3 is generally not a good idea (if you haven't lost them already). They are only good to repair and cap behind the ork army.
And if they died, tanks start to be a bad idea => impossible to repair if you are not in a team game, or with the mekboy. Buying back a slugga squad for repair when you're in T3 is a real pain : req wise, and pop wise.
All other races have ranged repairing squads, and will generally have at least one repair squad alive. Keeping a ranged squad alive is easier than a melee squad in this game.
So, what do you guys think ?
