Dawn of War Codex

Did have quite a bit of discusion going on about this thing, and it overperforms just to much in the current state.
You get a 100 req cheaper tac squad wihtout buildtime+ you reinforce all of your army nearby for free.
The red cost is at 100 way to low for what you get out of this thing, it also leads to 24/7 tac spams which isnt very creative or fun to play against.
My suggestion would be to increase the red cost at least to 200 or to 150 and the req cost to 450 like the normal price for a tac is.
This thing is also acting as a reinforcementpoint which isnt always easy to destroy, thats just way to much vallue for 350 req and 100 red, which you can also use in T1 quite often and seal the deal pretty much.

What do you think ?

Drop pod is fine. Tacs are useless until upgraded anyways.

Adila wrote:This thing is also acting as a reinforcementpoint.

This would be my main concern to agree that the price is too low. High impact, i like this Kind of playstyle-option for SM but it's just too stronk / cheap.

I think it is okay. You get reinforcement but I think it has a down side of that. Most players are clicking auto reinforce so even a tac model is down, they have to pay 75 req for a model. It becomes better if they have multiple tacs around. Just bleed them around the drop pod as much as you can and starve them in req. I sometimes do that. 2 models = 150 req and this is can not be seen.

Also, it can not reincorce rest of the teams which is nice. It would be a pain if it allows to nids and orks to benefit from it and use it as a cover. Reinforcing SM army is not as dangerous as reinforcing nids and orks but this sentence that I made up might be super wrong too.

A reinforce point isn't as useful to SM as it is for other races like Nids. Even if you can reinforce, your squad will still be at low health and if you stay on the field you'll lose more expensive models.

Agree kami. You don't have to use it. But still, it can shine very much and seal the deal for a cheap price.
It's worthy a discussion..

Are we speaking 1v1 or 3v3? in 1v1's it seems to be too cheap for all the free SM models and squad that turns into sterngaurds...

I am talking about 1v1s mainly.

Consider it a very expensive gate

SM Drop Pod is amazingly strong and under rated by many players. I do not think it is OP, but I consider it a game-changing tool in the SM arsenal, like Call Da Boyz. It's fine to have really strong moment like it on factions, but let's not pretend it isn't highly potent. When used right, it can turn a bad situation into an advantage and generally is fantastic at clawing your way back into a game. It's economic impact is substantial, and SM are often a race that win by staying as efficient as possible.

Dismissing it because SM don't benefit much from on-field reinforcement is missing the point. It's cost is so low for all the different things it gives you (for 100 red you "net" 100 req, free reinforcement and a continued reinforcement point at a key choke). If it was a tool that IG or Nids had, yeah it might be OP. SM's below average gains from on-field reinforcement is the only thing keeping me from saying the Pod is flat out OP, so calling it out as a reason to avoid the Pod doesn't make much sense to me.

In the recent Warp Spider callin thread, I made a list of all the callins and what they give you. If we removed Drop Pod's reinforcement (instant and over time) then drop pod would be reasonable compared to the others, but a touch weak. It's 100 red for 100 req off, while most other callins hang out around 150-200 red for 100 req and maybe 40ish power. But Drop Pod does have additional benefits, that if you even margninally take advantage of, pulls Drop Pod way up.

Some random situations I've been in where pod was amazing:
2 scout, tac, ASM T1 gen push. At a lull in the fight, drop the pod to get a tac and asm model back, as well as a fresh tac to spearhead. Burn all the gens.
2 scout, tac, dev, heavy gens. Play defensive then drop the pod to time a big push.
Drop it at mid VP and just bunker down.
T2 drop the pod to fix up a 1/3 tac (I think a scout model too) and immediately upgrade the new guys to sterns.
T3 spam pods to save req/power for more preads.

Remember: Each tac or ASM model you reinforce with the drop is 75 req you saved. That's BONKERS. Get 2 such models, and we're effectively saying that drop pod turns 100 red into 250req and potentially a timing attack.

Make the pod itself give a bigger XP/red boost when killed, to reward forcing stuff off, add 25-50 red to the initial callin, and it's fine.

Really really do not want to see an increased req cost as sm should pretty much never be floating 450 req unless you are buying asm in t1, a dread in t2, or are in t3.

Ace of Swords wrote:Consider it a very expensive gate

rofl ^^

Since this is a sm-mod anyway, Let's say it's fine and move on

An Inquisitor dropping a Bane Wolf or some Stormtroopers is much more damaging than a Tac squad. Plus, it's 175/55 to upgrade it to Sterns. It has no use as a regular Tac marine as it's not leveled like one made in T1 would be. The red use also slows down Terminators.

HARRYY wrote:Since this is a Chaos,Eldar,IG-mod anyway, Let's say it's fine and move on

Fixed

Aguxyz wrote:

HARRYY wrote:Since this is a Chaos,Eldar,IG-mod anyway, Let's say it's fine and move on

Fixed

Qft

Atlas wrote:

Aguxyz wrote:

HARRYY wrote:Since this is a Chaos,Eldar,IG,Nid,OM-mod anyway, Let's say it's fine and move on

Fixed

Qft

Let's get serious here folks.

Drop pod is broken. It is a major counter to the biggest goal for the opponent, bleeding models, to delay the tier 3 tech.

ChokoBambus wrote:Drop pod is broken. It is a major counter to the biggest goal for the opponent, bleeding models, to delay the tier 3 tech.

The tradeoff though is increased upkeep, more sources of potential bleed, less red for more important globals and less resources for a another unit. Would it make sense to make only the commander pod a reinforcement point since that seems to be the biggest issue people have with the global pod? If not, taking down pods should indeed give more experience.

ChokoBambus wrote:Drop pod is broken. It is a major counter to the biggest goal for the opponent, bleeding models, to delay the tier 3 tech.

I think you are still playing retail here. Ensuring SM don't hit T3 isn't really mandatory I 100% agree that Drop Pod gives a significant edge to a faction that tries to win through economic efficiency, but I still don't think it's broken. Any of the tiny tweaks Forrest mentioned would be fine in my eyes too, though increasing red is more iffy (since availability in T1 is part of what makes it so interesting of a global).

Adeptus Noobus wrote:The tradeoff though is increased upkeep, more sources of potential bleed, less red for more important globals and less resources for a another unit.

I do not understand this line of reasoning. We're talking about a callin - a global that summons a unit for a cost. Upkeep, bleed, red and resources spent are what happens when you summon a unit for a cost.

Adeptus Noobus wrote:Would it make sense to make only the commander pod a reinforcement point since that seems to be the biggest issue people have with the global pod? If not, taking down pods should indeed give more experience.

I like the direction here, of splitting the two pods further apart, though I think visually it doesn't work. Both Pods once deployed look the same, so it'd be real weird if one reinforced and the other didn't. I'd be in favor of making the Tac Pod lose free reinforce on landing, but both maintain reinforcement over time. This would more clearly differentiate the times and places to use the two (one is for the efficient reinforcement, the other is for the cheap tac, and both give you a "base" to fight near), and it could even go hand-in-hand with price tweaks. Tac Pod could go down in red to like 75 or even 50, and the reinforcement pod could have it's req cost go down a bit, and maybe even a higher red cost.

But, I think they mostly fine as is. Steel Rain is a legit and potent tactic that trades red for efficient req usage, a large army and multiple on-map reinforcement points - which in turn gives you lots of map control, which in turn gets you even more req, power and vps.

Cyris wrote:I do not understand this line of reasoning. We're talking about a callin - a global that summons a unit for a cost. Upkeep, bleed, red and resources spent are what happens when you summon a unit for a cost.

I was trying to make the case that an additional Tac squad may throw a wrench into your echonomical plans you had simply because now you have to pay more upkeep for a squad that you may or may not have wanted or used requisition on the call-in when you would rather have saved up for a Dreadnought or Librarian, etc. Using red like that also means that Terminators might be out of the question now too.

P.S: I do realize that you have the commander pod to simply reinforce without giving you an additional squad, but he might not always be around to use it.

Gonna agree with the people that say its overperforming. You can essentially reinforce quite a few expensive squads with just a few resources and red which isnt hard to get.

But then what happens to SM recovery? From my experience SM suffer the most from a really bad engagement due to everything being expensive and requiring an upgrade at most times. I can recall a number of of time where losing a single unit lost me the game even if I replaced it. Or when heavy reinforcement lost me the game vs nids or orks since I couldn't get another squad out.

I dont think it over performs too much. And that little bit it does would be increase the delay of the drop pod actually coming in the the field (and reinforcing) by a good 4 seconds. That would allow the other player to react more effectively and require the SM player to correctly judge an engagement and sometimes use it prematurely. I think that would enough to the global.

But the recovery aspect of the global is fine on SM.

Cyris wrote:Any of the tiny tweaks Forrest mentioned would be fine in my eyes too, though increasing red is more iffy (since availability in T1 is part of what makes it so interesting of a global).

hum, call da boyz is T1 and priced at 200red. I know it also gives combat and speed bonuses, but your red cost argument for a T1 global is not very good.
If the red cost is too cheap, it has to be changed, no matter wich tier it's in.
And right now, drop pod seems way too cheap.

Cyris wrote: I'd be in favor of making the Tac Pod lose free reinforce on landing, but both maintain reinforcement over time. This would more clearly differentiate the times and places to use the two (one is for the efficient reinforcement, the other is for the cheap tac, and both give you a "base" to fight near), and it could even go hand-in-hand with price tweaks.

Yeah, I like this idea too.

I don't see the problem at all with the global drop pod. It's a very niche ability. Only good when you lost your tacs (probably GG at that stage anyway, especially later on if they were leveled) or if for some reason 2 tacs is a good build (highly unlikely). If not then it's just a burden to have those extra tacs around costing you upkeep while not being useful. And if for some reason you are counting on this to be your first tac squad it's highly risky as you probably don't even get the 100 red in time.

And what about the commander drop pod? That thing is very useless. For 200 req you're always better of just paying for the reinforcements and keeping the red. Try to come up with a realistic situation where this pod is actually worth it ... It's as good as non-existent.

Then there is also the problem that the pod takes its sweet time to be deployed. In combat it's more often than not going to touch down too late, especially when it refuses to be placed because of terrain features, which it does a lot.

GuruSkippy wrote:hum, call da boyz is T1 and priced at 200red. I know it also gives combat and speed bonuses, but your red cost argument for a T1 global is not very good.
If the red cost is too cheap, it has to be changed, no matter wich tier it's in.
And right now, drop pod seems way too cheap.

CDB is also instant which is a very big deal, it also works on everything (pod doesn't work on terminators) and as you said, it's also a stat boost to your army...

I'm not saying CDB is bad, or worse than drop pod, or overpriced.

I'm saying CDB is a T1 ability costing 200 red, so saying that a T1 ability shouldn't cost a lot of red because it's a T1 ability doesn't seem to me to be a very good argument, as Cyris wrote in his post.

@Riku

I think you are really over playing how "niche" the tac drop is. Another tac squad in T1 is simply not going to be a bad thing if you use it in a very obvious fashion, that being, drop the pod to reinforce your army and/or use the pod to initiate an undeniable push on a power farm.
I don't think it is fair to say at all that it is "only good when you have lost your tacs" or that it is "highly unlikely" that having 2 tacs is a good thing.

I think in this instance, just because something doesn't agree with your play style, does not necessarily mean that it is niche or isn't great.

I do agree that the commander drop pod is one of those things that I never use unless I'm 100% desperate.

I thought like Riku until Noisy used the new pod vs me in 1s consistently to a good result. Still I rarely find use for it outside of 3v3s when I'm rolling with 5 tacs as apo, playstyles and stuff.

GuruSkippy wrote:

Cyris wrote: I'd be in favor of making the Tac Pod lose free reinforce on landing, but both maintain reinforcement over time. This would more clearly differentiate the times and places to use the two (one is for the efficient reinforcement, the other is for the cheap tac, and both give you a "base" to fight near), and it could even go hand-in-hand with price tweaks.

Yeah, I like this idea too.

+1

I think it would be fine if it lost the reinforcement point, but if the red or req was changed it would become useless as it was before.

Black Relic wrote:And that little bit it does would be increase the delay of the drop pod actually coming in the the field (and reinforcing) by a good 4 seconds. That would allow the other player to react more effectively and require the SM player to correctly judge an engagement and sometimes use it prematurely. I think that would enough to the global.

NOOOOOOO !!! Please no! I use that drop pod as an assault tool! Waiting my army to be suppressed by your havocs? CHRUSH ! You are annoying my team mate? CHRUSH ! You think you out numbered me nids? CHRUSH ! Ahahahah! I have a lot of fun with that thing, one of my favorite globals ever.

Ace of Swords wrote:I think it would be fine if it lost the reinforcement point, but if the red or req was changed it would become useless as it was before.

Reinforce benefit is not something that hurts game I think. That reinforce point can be taken down by any kind of focus fire even while it is repaired. Also, as I said before, reinforcing SM is not as dangerous as reinforcing nids, orks or IG. In the other hand, if the reinforce does not benefit too much, I would like to call my drop pod with a less req and without reinforce on the field.

EDIT : What about removing reinforce from global drop pod but remain it on the commander ability?

^ Reinforcing on the field for SM is not fighting > losing models > keep reinforcing, it's about potentially losing 1 or 2 models and reinforcing after the fight, basically not having to walk back into the base thus not losing map control but gaining it.

In other words, if you won the fight but are lacking a model, instead of having a useless unit that has to retreat regardless you quickly reinforce it and go back to capping.