Hold fire

[Fr33man1800]

Basically I’m wondering what you guys think about maybe adding a hold fire mode for all setup teams (especially lascanons).

This would be incredibly useful since ATM lascanons just randomly shoot at everything, and you reveal your position to your enemy. There is no way to avoid that other than just set it up in the last moment and then fire. But it takes ages to setup and the most annoying part is that FOR SOME FUCKING REASON they set up the wrong way sometimes, and that can be a huge pain in the ass.

The problem I see with having that added is that it indirectly nerfs some races like orks (they already have infiltration which basically does the same), eldar (they brighlance can be used against other targets with the ability) , and GK since they don’t have any weapon of that sorts.

But on the other hand allows for some extra tactics to be used ingame like ambushes or dont send your vehicle ahead without proper scouting first.
Also could be cool having this for Pdevs or NM to prevent killing your own ASM/raptors or friendly troops if you so desire. Granted it disables some "micro" from the game but this is not a very micro intensive game to begin with, and also adds the micro element of having to enable/disable the hold fire mode while adding some more planning to tank charges now since you can be met by a wall of lascanons if you don’t scout first.

Also I think that could be nice if vehicles with AV capabilities like falcons, Las rhinos, lemans , looted, preds , FP etc... Had a similar mode to avoid the fucking awful turret targeting system and use a similar system to COH2 in where they target VEHICLES ONLY and ignore every other unit in the game unless the ability is disabled.

Opinions?

[GuruSkippy]

It would be a great addition to the game, that's for sure.

[Caeltos]

We've been looking into this type of feature for quite some time.

[Atlas]

The idea is just fine, but I don't know where you think this would nerf orks or eldar in any way :/

[Soberson]

I miss stance system from original Dawn of War so much

[Deuce Bigalow]

Glad this is in the works. Sucks when your lascannon tries to shoot an infantry model and your opponent gets to totally rethink their approach. Also FF from p-devs/blastmaster has cost me a few squads over time.

[Paranoid Kamikaze]

Press 'stop'. Works for some units like Plasma Devs.

Weapons that fire in the opponents fog of war don't show to your opponent due to a bug. You can kill vehicles without them even knowing what's happening.

[Asmon]

Back in the days we wanted to understand the mechanism behind infiltration that let units see enemy units and yet not attack them. Ideally one could reproduce this behaviour for non-infiltrated units and therefore create an hold fire command.

[Wise Windu]

Camouflage has a 'hold_fire_stance' associated with it, but the stance file itself doesn't say anything about how it works, nor does it seem to link to anything, SCAR or otherwise, at least that I've found. Camouflage is applied as a modifier, but in the modifiers.scar file, the hold_fire_stance isn't there. So not sure yet where it's taken from. If anyone knows where that could be found, let me know. Myrdal seems to have some ideas as to how it might be implemented with SCAR, so we'll see where that goes.

[Ace of Swords]

Camouflage has a 'hold_fire_stance' associated with it, but the stance file itself doesn't say anything about how it works, nor does it seem to link to anything, SCAR or otherwise, at least that I've found. Camouflage is applied as a modifier, but in the modifiers.scar file, the hold_fire_stance isn't there. So not sure yet where it's taken from. If anyone knows where that could be found, let me know. Myrdal seems to have some ideas as to how it might be implemented with SCAR, so we'll see where that goes.

Thomas the tank engine said it was possible for vehicles at least, you might ask him

[Myrdal]

Thomas the tank engine said it was possible for vehicles at least, you might ask him

The functionality exists and not just for tanks. The problem is making it intuitive and avoid situations where it's not clear whether the unit is or isn't in cease fire.

[Black Relic]

why don't just make this a toggled ability to make the range weapon be disabled? Or have the modifier (ability) reduce weapon range by 64 and then when its toggled off increases it by 64 or whatever. Or it that not a good idea?

[Wise Windu]

why don't just make this a toggled ability to make the range weapon be disabled?

Disabling ranged weapons de-sets up set up teams. Tried it once.

Or have the modifier (ability) reduce weapon range by 64 and then when its toggled off increases it by 64 or whatever.

I think I tried this once, as well. I can't remember what the problem was, but I remember it being kind of awkward. I'd have to try it again to be sure.

Regardless, it looks like Myrdal found a SCAR function that mimics camouflage cease fire. No targets picked unless done manually, and won't auto-target another when the target is dead/out of range.

[Black Relic]

just thought about this. How about making 2 different hold fire abilities. One for infantry and one specifically for set up teams.

The first hold fire ability is just no enabling weapon like normal.

The second one that's specifically for set up team requires the set up team to be set up(?) and has a modifier (when you switch the hold fire off to fire once again) gives you a setup modifier to instantly set up.

So when you toggle the hold fire on it give the setup team a sim_var. And as long as they stay still (in which case they lose the sim_car) that sim _var grants a modifier that lowers setup time. However (to simulate teardown time) the squad cannot move for a few seconds or their normal teardown time. And that tear down simulation does not affect the squad if veil of time is on them.

Not too sure how that would work but i think that's a starting point for a work around. What do you think wise?

[Wise Windu]

There's already a set up requirement for using/sustaining abilities. Check the Loota's infiltrate. You could use that, along with the set up time modifier from the Librarian's ability to make those two different abilities work.

Along with Myrdal's scar function, both of those could work without having to do a work around.

[Black Relic]

I totally forgot about lootas being able to do that...L2P to myself lol.