Dawn of War Codex

First off, the lore behind combi-weapons: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Combi-weapons

I always felt that leaving out combi weapons in DOW1 and DOW2 was just plain stupid. They are an intriguing possibility with lots of options. Just look at the Chaos Lord combi flamer, which is a really nice T1 choice for him to kill lapdog loyalists running away. Here's my suggestion to their possible implementation.

Combi weapons are availible to Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and Orks. I'm not sure if GK get them in the lore, but I'm sure someone will tell me.

Their logistics: Let's look at say a tactical space marine squad. Instead of giving them a permanent weapon upgrade, they also have the option of giving all the models combi weapons. Combi-flamer, melta, plasma, etc

Combi-weapons behave normally (like bolters/shootas) but grant an ability "Activate secondary weapon." It would cost no energy.

This would make the SM bolters switch to melta guns/flamers/whatever for ten seconds or some limited time duration. After that time, the combi weapons run out of fuel, and they have to be repurchased in order to use the weapon again.

First of all, I'm not even sure if this is possible: having a unit swap their weapons out for a short time and then get their original weapon back.

Assuming this can be done, here are some suggestions

Orks: combi-burna, combi rokkit
SM: combi-melta, combi-flamer
CSM: combi-melta, combi-flamer

Why should this be done? It opens up a lot more versatility and soft counters to a lot of units, but for a price. This can be good or bad of course. I know it would all have to be balanced, but I'll leave that to Caeltos and people who know more about it than I do.

Thoughts? If Eldar/Tyranids/IG get combi weapons and I left them out, apologies. A combi barbed-strangler and venom cannon would be awesome............................

That would totaly break balance in my opinion. Giving a full 3-man SM unit the possibility to gain 3 plasma guns, even for 10 seconds or so, is just broken. Assuming that each marine does about 24(?) dps with a regular plasma gun, triple that and you get something that can possibly kill a sentinel with one voley.

Now, assuming that all 3 models combined do the same dps as the regular plasma, why not buy the plasma gun instead? You save power not having to "re-purchase" it and you still keep the 2 boltguns for light infantry usage. Same deal with combi-meltas and combi-flamers. Destroying an entire gen-farm while still maintaining the 3 boltguns is rediculus in my opinion.

I dont really see a place for Combi Bolters with Space Marine right now.


Tactical Marines, loyal Terminators and Scouts dont carry Combi Bolters, those type of weapons are usually ment for more elite members of the Chapter. Beside that they allready have the option to go for a Flamer or a Plasmagun.

Sternguard would the place to go, if they didnt allready have Bolter Munition types which would make CombiBolters redundant.

Leaving the Techmarine IMHO as the last option, but again, he allready has proper Melta and Plasmaguns.

So Unless you plan to REPLACE existing wargear/upgrades I dont really see a point for CombiBolters for Marines right now.

Edit:

With Exception of the Terminator Force Commander who I really think should get a Combiflamer instead of his heavy Flamer.

The problem with Combi-weapons (I sincerely like them) is they have no place without making them OP.

I agree with Orkfaeller. Except for a new teorical Chosen Marines squad, a new Chaos Terminator upgrade, a possible weapon upgrade for the Orks Flash Gitzs or maybe for the IG Inquisitor.

And even with this I see lot of limitations: who is going to buy a combi bolter-plasma weapon for Chaos Terminators when they already have a awesome autocannon?

How it's supposed to be implemented? like the Chaos Lords combi-flamer ability? With a toggle ability changing the damage/ammo type? (for example: you have a combi bolter-plasma weapon. By defaults it shoots the bolter, but you could toggle this with an ability and only shooting with the plasma weapon)

The three plasma guns and three flamers wouldn't all be as good as a normal flamer or plasma gun obviously. The dps values would have to be adjusted.

It's an option to get a SOFT counter out. Like getting the meltas if you are waiting for some hard AV to counter an early bloodcrusher. the meltas are a one-time ability, so if you use them properly, you can pressure the crusher and avoid a gen bash.

"How it's supposed to be implemented? like the Chaos Lords combi-flamer ability? With a toggle ability changing the damage/ammo type? (for example: you have a combi bolter-plasma weapon. By defaults it shoots the bolter, but you could toggle this with an ability and only shooting with the plasma weapon)"

Not like the combi-flamer ability. You get the combi weapon. It behaves like a normal bolter. When you activate secondary weapon, it changes the weapon itself to a melta/plasma/whatever for a certain amount of time. After that time, the fuel runs out and the squad uses bolters until it repurchases the upgrade and uses the ability again. The repurchasing the upgrade part makes sure it is temporary.

fok12 wrote:That would totaly break balance in my opinion. Giving a full 3-man SM unit the possibility to gain 3 plasma guns, even for 10 seconds or so, is just broken. Assuming that each marine does about 24(?) dps with a regular plasma gun, triple that and you get something that can possibly kill a sentinel with one voley.

Now, assuming that all 3 models combined do the same dps as the regular plasma, why not buy the plasma gun instead? You save power not having to "re-purchase" it and you still keep the 2 boltguns for light infantry usage. Same deal with combi-meltas and combi-flamers. Destroying an entire gen-farm while still maintaining the 3 boltguns is rediculus in my opinion.

why does everyone bring up the sentinel? seriously, the thing gets SHREDDED by Mark of Tzeench CSM and nobody complains about that? I just don't understand is all. As for the topic on hand, i don't feel that more weapons are really necessary at the moment. Perhaps in the future but as of now theres more pressing concerns.

Orkfaeller wrote:I dont really see a place for Combi Bolters with Space Marine right now.


Tactical Marines, loyal Terminators and Scouts dont carry Combi Bolters, those type of weapons are usually ment for more elite members of the Chapter. Beside that they allready have the option to go for a Flamer or a Plasmagun.

Sternguard would the place to go, if they didnt allready have Bolter Munition types which would make CombiBolters redundant.

tac sarge can carry combi weapons according to lore and TT. I'm guessing by my understanding of lore that a combi melta on a tac sergeant will just give the tac squad a skill like tank hunter missile for whirlwind or AV shot for zoanthrope. something like: N melta damage and X sec snare with Y cooldown

Lore wise, aren't combi-weapons supposed to be extremely rare? I can't remember where it is I found the article, but it something to do with a lot of the techniques to make combi weps being lost in prior ages or maybe just being master-crafted in general, hence why so many of the weapons are handed down as chapter relics for space marines.

So to keep with the lore, I don't think it'd be smart to put it on anything BUT sternguard, but as it has been proposed already - they've already got the different ammo types. It would defeat the purpose if we gave them combi-weapons on top of that.

Bahamut wrote:

Orkfaeller wrote:I dont really see a place for Combi Bolters with Space Marine right now.


Tactical Marines, loyal Terminators and Scouts dont carry Combi Bolters, those type of weapons are usually ment for more elite members of the Chapter. Beside that they allready have the option to go for a Flamer or a Plasmagun.

Sternguard would the place to go, if they didnt allready have Bolter Munition types which would make CombiBolters redundant.

tac sarge can carry combi weapons according to lore and TT. I'm guessing by my understanding of lore that a combi melta on a tac sergeant will just give the tac squad a skill like tank hunter missile for whirlwind or AV shot for zoanthrope. something like: N melta damage and X sec snare with Y cooldown

Yeah, but I'm not willing to sacrifice the Chainsword of the Sergeant for that^^

err.. maybe someone that actually plays TT could answer this question, But i've seen tons of batreps where tac sergeants have power fists and melta stuff. Dunno if bolter pistols can have combi capabilities as well. Gotta say tac sarge power sword does almost make up for his manly manliness

The lore has a lot of things that don't really line up with the game.

CSM are only supposed to be able to fire inferno bolts if they are led by a sorceror and have been turned into Rubric Marines...........................

I was just wondering if the weapon swap could actually be possible.

Don't know of any combi pistols. But there are hand flamers, melta pistols, etc

No, Kombipistols dont exist ( yet ).

There are things like Flamerpistols and I guess Meltapistols, but those are so incredible rare/exotic, I think the only ones using them are the Blood Angels, maybe the Sororitas.

Edit: beside that, yeah, if we go by background a Veteran Sergeant, a Sergeant who earnt the Crux Terminatus ( the sign to have earned the honour to wear terminator armour ) has prettymuch full access to the Chapter's Armory.

That Includes like you said Powerfists and everything.

Think they cut down the options for Sergeants a bit with the 5th edition but technicly a Sergeant could carry anything that isnt a heavy support weapon.