OM vs SM match up

[Aetherion]

It has long been said that this is a match up that heavily favours Ordo Malleus, regardless of which SM hero is chosen. So I'd like to hear if there is anything there can be done atm to better SM's chances against OM, be it team games or 1v1s. My current issue/s are the many counters OM has against set up teams, as well as their strong T1 spike damage either from ops, strikes or ISTs. I apologize if this thread has been opened before, my searches have not shown up anything.

Halp. No salt, just what can be done with what SM has atm. Let's start with the Force Commander or Techie, cos if they don't have a chance...well we know the apo is UP

[egewithin]

Lets all talk about T1 because in later game, there are lots of possiblitys. And the main struggle agianst OM is in T1.

- Double Devs are a pretty hard counter for BroCap. Double Venagance Rounds is insanly effective vs T1 OM. But it may back fire with a Dreadnought from the enemy. Still it can be bleed by double Rounds and can be combined with missile tacs. BOOM !

- Going snipers is a good idea but a Sergant is a must. SS can easly bleed Scouts and now the reinforce costs power. The shouldn't bleed.

- In case of a ranged spam, ASM is a good option but needs to be supported. Double SS for example, can beat down ASM alone. Also; Purifys are a real threat later on. You should think twice before you do something like that.

Talking for eaach hero

Force Commander
Telportpack - Thunderhammer combo seems like a no branier. You can suprize your enemy by classic Codex build ; Power Sword + Alacrity.

Assault Terminators shall be your primary option. Don't buy them untill you see OM Termies. Then, get your paws on with For the Emperor buff.

For the Emperor buff can be used to kill BroCap in close range Devs with vengance rounds.

Apothecary

Hardest to do. Ranged SM with health support seems like a good idea.

The real support for ASM. Purification Rites are a no branier vs Purifys.

Tacs shall always be reserved for a Termie counter with plasma guns.

I don't suggest ranged Terminators in late game because OM = Super cool Termies and SM Termies can't do anything about them. I suggested combi-meltas for them becouse Apo has no real option against OM late game.

You better get a Land Raider with your team mates. It is the best weapon.

Techmarine

For a team game, a beacon with a turrent is a real deal for every enemy. Hit and run tactics are cool.

Signum armour with focus plasma with Tacs is hard counter for Termies.

Melee Techmarine works vs OM somehow.

Dreadnoughts are amazing with Techmarine support. But the Multi-Melta is not so safe. Try to keep him with melee weapons unless an annoying ranged OM appears.

Verenible is the best option vs Termies/Paladins. Venenible fights Paladins while plasmas shooting at them...

[Torpid]

So the primary problem in this match-up is that in T1 your scouts are completely overshadowed by IST unless you put a lot of power investment into your scouts. Then Strikes do as much as tacs pretty much but are way bette rin melee. The BC is stronger by default than most SM heroes...

You see the issue right? In t1 these days however set up teams fare well against GK because the BC no longer gets aegis in T1. So my suggestion to you would be for you to go the following build:

Starting scout, tac, tac, devs. And add one additional scout here if you are playing 1v1.

Your original scout should be fully upgraded with infiltration/sarge/shotguns. That will do a really solid amount of damage to the BC and you can get vengeance rounds too. Alongside dual tacs there is no way he can just wade into your devs even if you fail to spot him and focus fire him down in time. You will simply have too much damage. If you are an FC couple this build with a artificer/power sword combo. As apo the MCB is a good choice so you can bleed the IST easier - you're too vulnerable for sanguine to work and I don't recommend asm in this MU. Techmarine should just get bionics mostly for it being cheap and the hp regen. Smashing the OM to bits in T1 is how you win this - if they get a good tech lead you lose, but if you tech at the same time you are good.

Now, you get to T2 you are likely to see a rhino early on, or a dreadnought. Either way all you do is buy an extra devastator squad and give it a lascannon. One tac goes missle launcher vs a dread, or just keep it default vs a rhino, a las-cannon is sufficient AV. You want to try and get a dreadnought of your own out.

Here's how this works - If you can beat the OM at range in T2, you win. Because it makes the brother captain mostly useless as now he can't counter-initiate you, which is his preferred way to play in T2. He cannot approach you with vehicles because of your setup teams. Your tacs easily out-shoot the IST and SS in T2 and even purgation too if you get plasma tacs and/or an assault cannon dreadnought. You want to get the sacred standard on your force commander in T2, or the plasma gun on the techmarine or armour of the apothecarion on the apothecary. All of these things just make your tac-pair slaughter OM models even faster. They will peel them off so fast the OM will want to imba.

[Cyris]

I haven't played much lately, but after 2.5 I've found this matchup to be pretty even. I ended up beating crews OM as SM in a decent number of matches. Long gone are the days of EZ mode Ops wiping scout squads left and right. Double tac is absolutely the right call, and the dev + rounds can do wonders. I won the most when the 2nd tac came from a drop pod for the reinforce bonus as well (I'm still firmly in the "drop pod is OP, use it more" camp). T2 you just get so far ahead with double plasma guns. ASM do surprisingly well too: consider them an anti-IST unit, designed to bleed / force off constantly (or anti-purg if they go for it). I tended to not get a 2nd scout, and put a sarge on only if I saw ops.

IST really are the weak point, and you want to focus hem with tacs and ASM and commander constantly. They beat scouts in a shooting war, but the lower speed and health per model should be your focus. Bleed them out every chance you get. If in a fight you force melee on them with your tacs, bleed a couple models then force a retreat, then have to retreat out your tacs against the SS that have been hitting them, it's pretty much a win (assuming you avoid a tac model loss).

EDIT: As a quick side, I actually found the sanguine chain sword super good early game! Same plan as the MCB, just rush at the IST. Apo can also toe-to-toe the BC with it, though SS must be avoided. Solve that with either dev or ASM. It does fall off in T2, but it can sometimes get you alot ahead early, and if you have enough melee in the form of a dread in T2, the apo can safely get in there still.

[Adeptus Noobus]

While I see why FC would like to go T3, does it actually make sense to go there just for tanks, when the biggest threat OM can field could also be countered by Dreadnoughts? Let us assume you have established range superiority the way Torpid described it, wouldn't multiple Dreadnoughts not be the safe choice (especially as the Techmarine)?

[Ace of Swords]

While I see why FC would like to go T3, does it actually make sense to go there just for tanks, when the biggest threat OM can field could also be countered by Dreadnoughts? Let us assume you have established range superiority the way Torpid described it, wouldn't multiple Dreadnoughts not be the safe choice (especially as the Techmarine)?

Melee dreds don't hold their own against paladins and take a long time to repair they also lose to the gk dred with claws, in this mu you also go 2xtacts wih only the starting scout and generally dev, so generally speaking you don't go ASM, which means your dred will get raped by purgation, with tanks it's another another story, you can easily kite the purgs while your tm/tacts focus them down and the paladins will either be busy trying to follow the tank (and wasting their teleport doing so risking to die) or they will be chasing one of the tacts, with how req heavy all of this is and how little repairs you have (you could in theory get more scouts in t2, but it's really a waste of resources since they will not hold up against anything the gk as and you don't have 55 power and endless req to spare on them).

tl;dr one dred is good enough to hold the field, though plasma is straight up a much more effective choice vs GKs and unless you are really desperate preds are always the go to choice, I wouldn't even go LC termies unless I get them to complement my build after a couple of preds tbh.