Dawn of War Codex

I mostly play IG and I am content with Rocket run as a nuke; however, having been on the receiving end of each races nuke many times, I do feel like certain ones are way more dangerous than others. This is how I would categorize them:

Amazing Tier:
Eldritch Storm

Good Tier:
Rocket Run
Roks
Empyreal Abyss

Hit and Miss Tier:
Orbital Bombardment

Worthless Garbage Don't Ever Use This Tier:
Tyranoformation

Do you guys feel differently about them?

Oddnerd wrote:
Worthless Garbage Don't Ever Use This Tier:
Tyranoformation

I think, I used it twice in 200+ games. Good thing you can dump all your red in infestation towers and without number.

In my opinion Tyrannoformation is not as bad as people in this forum have tried making it look. If you setup a push with it against an entrenched player, 1st he will have to reposition to not get hit, 2nd the boni the nuke grants are underestimated a lot by you guys and last but not least, this are all towers that the player has to take down as well to deny you the towers buffs in engagements to come.
You are comparing nukes out of the context of which race can employ it. If Nids had a nuke like Eldar, I wouldn't even bother playing in a lobby with a Nid player. All nukes have different purposes and require you to plan your attacks with them differently. Some are more tactical, one is oriented around buffing your army, one is straight up damage and so on.

Nukes don't need any more tinkering.

Tyranoformation is amazing for Nids. It deals with entrenched positions and instakills buildings while buffing your whole army.
You can find a detailed opinion of this on the forum somewhere.

About the Tyranoformation. I'm just a rookie Tyranid player, but I think it's a good nuke for the reasons Noobus and Riku mentioned, but...

It might help make the nuke more appealing (at least for newer Tyranid players) if you could see where the other towers will emerge when placing the nuke (i.e. a more informative placement indicator/marker).

(Alternatively, why not make it like the SM nuke so that you could place the other towers wherever you wanted within a certain radius from the first one? Would obviously require a whole bunch of tinkering and tweaking for such a big change... but it's just a thought.)

And also...

After a 3 second delay, 7 Capillary Towers begin to erupt from the ground. The center tower emerges first, doing 175 explosive damage in radius 7. The second, fourth and sixth towers deal 175 explosive damage in a radius 10, while the third and fifth towers deal 50 explosive damage in a radius 7. The final tower deals 50 explosive damage in a radius 10.

Why do the different towers have to do different amounts of damage? I get that the first tower would be different, but why all the rest? It seems unnecessarily complicated, especially since you can't control which tower emerges where. Why not simply have tower two to seven deal the same amount of damage in the same radius?

Lesten wrote:About the Tyranoformation. I'm just a rookie Tyranid player, but I think it's a good nuke for the reasons Noobus and Riku mentioned, but...

It might help make the nuke more appealing (at least for newer Tyranid players) if you could see where the other towers will emerge when placing the nuke (i.e. a more informative placement indicator/marker).

(Alternatively, why not make it like the SM nuke so that you could place the other towers wherever you wanted within a certain radius from the first one? Would obviously require a whole bunch of tinkering and tweaking for such a big change... but it's just a thought.)

And also...

After a 3 second delay, 7 Capillary Towers begin to erupt from the ground. The center tower emerges first, doing 175 explosive damage in radius 7. The second, fourth and sixth towers deal 175 explosive damage in a radius 10, while the third and fifth towers deal 50 explosive damage in a radius 7. The final tower deals 50 explosive damage in a radius 10.

Why do the different towers have to do different amounts of damage? I get that the first tower would be different, but why all the rest? It seems unnecessarily complicated, especially since you can't control which tower emerges where. Why not simply have tower two to seven deal the same amount of damage in the same radius?

It's similar to the ork Roks in that the towers land in the same places relative to each other every time you use it, so the more experience you have with it the better you will become at predicting it. That's also the same reason the towers do different damage, so do roks and everything. Don't think it's a problem because you can learn to anticipate it.

I really don't understand a lot of the hate that the SM OB gets - you can choose where to place multiple beams whereas most other nukes (excluding Rocket Run and OM OB of course), you are locked in to a disk shaped AOE. It also snares infantry in such a way that you can't even retreat to escape, at which time you should be shooting them at range, which quite obviously SM are very good at doing. Is it the damage? Because I assume that's what the snare is making up for. It's one of few nukes in the game that physically stops you from running away and you cant see the beams beforehand to avoid it - you have to think about it, so I like it. It also does piercing damage during and 500 heavy melee damage at the end.

Nids nuke is obviously the weakest in terms of damage but like people said, they'd rather use all the other awesome globals. Plus insta-killing buildings, KB disruption and buffing your army is unique and a cool design choice imo. I do like Lesten's idea though, it would be pretty cool to have an indicator to show where they pop up. An indicator for towers would make it a little more consistent and help newcomers a little. A damage buff wouldn't go amiss either.

The Chaos nuke is surprisingly underwhelming. I mean the damage is great but it has nothing else going for it other than that. No KB, only snares one non-retreating unit unlike other nukes, weak against buildings, isn't spike damage and is ok-ish against vehicles. It certainly requires much more situational placement and ability combinations to really wipe stuff, like chains of torment which is probably the best combos since it forces a retreat, upping that tasty damage. Otherwise most the damage can be avoided by just walking away instead and you can keep your units on the field.

I like all of the nukes really but I still hate the way the Eldritch randomly annihilates vehicles instantly sometimes. It's not like Eldar need more AV anyway, especially with the edition of Fire Dragons and it's anti everything + KB + spike damage + the extremely awesome vehicle stun. I agree with the No. 1 spot.

I'm sure you disagree but that's just my feels c:

@OB

Sure, you can choose where the beams go, but it's not like they comes down instantly, they come down one at a time. It snares infantry indeed. What it also does is prevent units from getting to the centre of the beam and be caught at the outer ring where the damage is pitiful. While up in the air the retreat function can still be activated, meaning shooting at them will do almost no damage. This is why it gets so much "hate".

I agree, the damage isn't fantastic but it does snare units better than most nukes and can be very annoying in retreat paths. It can cover larger areas than most nukes without being locked in to a disk shape so it's easier to catch larger number of infantry, which is a good thing imo. Heavy hitting ranged units can still do some damage while units float about but yeah, the damage is certainly lacking on it's own compared to a RR, EA, Roks or Eldritch. I still feel like the fact that it prevents your opponent from running away and the large area it covers is often ignored by players and it gets a lot of hate for it.

It isn't the best nuke but the Eldritch and Tyranoformation are the clearly different from the other nukes, being far from comparable to each other and the furthest away from each other on the list. Variety is good and i wouldn't choose to change the fundamental ways in which the nukes work, it just seems clear than the Tyranoformation suffers a bit while people really like the Eldritch.

I $m fine with eldritch, just make the phase shift retreatable. It's too op to lock units in place for an eldritch using a teleporting commander that can stun 3-4 units AL the while the stun prevents them to retreat.

Eldricth is a God tier nuke even without phase shift.

Basically the best nuke for almost every occasion with a faction that has so manh ways to set it up.

Dark Riku wrote:@OB

What it also does is prevent units from getting to the centre of the beam and be caught at the outer ring where the damage is pitiful.

Could the nuke be modified such that if a unit is caught in the outer edge of a beam, it is pulled in to the center, similar to how singularity works?

Tinibombini wrote:

Dark Riku wrote:@OB

What it also does is prevent units from getting to the centre of the beam and be caught at the outer ring where the damage is pitiful.

Could the nuke be modified such that if a unit is caught in the outer edge of a beam, it is pulled in to the center, similar to how singularity works?

that would actually be fucking awesome.

Tinibombini wrote:

Torpid wrote:Could the nuke be modified such that if a unit is caught in the outer edge of a beam, it is pulled in to the center, similar to how singularity works?

that would actually be fucking awesome.

That might be awesome, but because of how much damage it actually does in the centre of the beam that would not be a good idea imo.
If a change like that were to happen it could probably do with some damage tweaks.

Dark Riku wrote:If a change like that were to happen it could probably do with some damage tweaks.

You are probably right there good sir!

Still, I'm enforcing the idea, not necessarily the immediate balance implications. I don't for example think it needs a buff as such. Just I like the idea. I think it would make the global a lot more interesting.

Maybe the only thing I liked from the DOW3 sneak peek was the fact that the orbital bombardment could be moved. That might be another way it could be tweaked to be less hit-and-miss.

Maybe the simpler change to orbital would be to buff the damage of the outer ring in recognition of the fact the most times players will retreat their units or move them so they only end up on in the outer ring.