Dawn of War Codex

What exactly needs buffs? But anyway here is my rant.

Razorbacks smoke nade actually working immediately rather than 3 seconds after its detonation.

Also changing the merciless strike so it actually operates better caz atm it fucking sucks only because of how the serg has to path first before using the ability when he should just use the ability. Kinda like i fix that problem and honestly it's too good when i did fix it.

Apothecary's aura stacking with the infiltration kit health regen needs to be fixed because that's a little broken. Each model gets 7.5 hp regen per second when out of combat (which mean they can be shot at but they cant be shooting back). On four models that's an insane 30 hp per second across the squad.

Force Commander's Standard could use a little nerf in some way. Not sure how though. This thing with Tac plasma is a bit too strong. The Sword could use a little rework. I say the initial battle cry gives 15% and after that ever special give 10% like normal. I have had a FC with Power sword and range terminators bet OM terminators in melee before. Not cool. Although it was for me.

Armor of Alacrity needs a small req cost reduction to 105 from 110 and the Artificer armor needs a req increase to 110 or 115. AA stills get overshadowed by Artificer because the health regen energy regen and 200 health is a bit too hard to say no to plus is amazing on him ever since the bolt pistol buff. He has sustain ability and is not easy to kite anymore.

Shotgun scout could use some tweaking in their damage modifiers at the long and distant range as well as making the long and distant range different and not the same 26. Shotgun blast should be used buy the whole squad. And have a range ignore when the ability starts so the scouts are constantly moving forward to the target. And this also fixes the long ignored bug of double shotgun blasts from a single scout squad. There is no way this was intended. Btw did something similar to ASM before so even when they get knocked back they still jump to the targeted location without having the walker into range and then jumping. Although i'm still experimenting.

ASM melta bomb slow should not stack with other slows. Stun locking should never have been a thing anyway. Also the squad should also be immune the KB when throwing it. Just saying.

Walkers should also be able to path over infantry units. But that's a personal thing that doesn't really matter.

Alturch buffs too unit when she lands is stupid strong. And the Speed increased she provides should be increased but the speed buff be exclusive so it doesn't stack so no more speed 13123456 banshees.

Wraithguard need to have fire on the move removed and if they keep it the unit gets moved to t3 and the D cannon switches to t2 and the singularity ability is unlocked at t3.

Dire avengers needs to have their cost increased to 280. Because 300 it actually too much bute 270 is also too little small nerf will probably find this units proper place.

Dark Reapers range is stupid, nearly (they are on the VERY edge of the firing arc) out ranging suppression teams when unbuffed. Reduce the range by 2-4 and lower reload speed or cooldown to compensate.

Warp spiders.....fucking amazing. Idk what to do with them but they needs a miniscule nerf. I mean this unit is almost the only reason why my Banshee and autarch builds work soo fucking well.

Falcon reinforcement radius could go down. and its req cost could be reduced too to compensate but hey i don't really care if the falcon gets looked at.

Seer Council....stupid jumps need to not do so much damage. The Knockback is already freaking annoying for units trying to use a targeted ability.

Inquisitors hammer of the witches. Remove her always facing the enemy so it doesn't. This is for almost every one of her abilities. Make her time for the ability to go off smaller but also make a way for her not do the ability again when she is disrupted. Idk if Assail works like this but if it does not, increases it range by 5 and have it so if she get disrupted the ability stops.

The Guardsmen serg pisses me off. The serg after the first two should cost a bit more. The amount of damage (2 gms plus him) and eco stability these bastards bring is amazing for them to constantly be overlooked.

The Sentinel needs a purpose later in the game. I would like to have an armor upgrade in t3 to change his armor type to super heavy to protect against small arms fire. Plus the things need some love.

IG autocannons....need to do less AV damage. And AV damage specifically they might need their own damage type for that though.

Kasrkin. Do something about them.

Inspire determination. Lower the Speed buff and make the speed buff exclusive. Speed 11 Ograns aren't cool. In return lower the cost for bionic eye.

Stubbornness. Health regen needs to be lowered. He can keep the 75% extra damage he is able to get.

Carapace armor. Health regen that thing gives. Yaaaa no too much. Lower it to 2 from 3.5 and add energy regen.

LG the Incoming ability needs to not block ability KB and have the wargear cost lowered after. Stabilizer health regen duration could use a small decrease.

Basilisk flare needs a red increase as well to 80-85. 75 red to completely shut down another player's army and nearly win the fight from that is ridiculous. If that doesn't happen the radius that it affects units needs to be lowered because atm its super powerful.

Heretic needs their doomblast damage back when the get the AC everyone has agreed on that. P.S it annoys me when people say the heretics are fragile this patch when their health was not touched. How about the cost effectiveness out of the gate is as good anymore since the nerf?

Raptor melta guns need some love. Honestly id say just a flat cost decrease to 50/20. Freakin unit is probably going to die anyway when they get this upgrade if there is counter initiation and you get the most out of this when the AC is purchase which is a MASSIVE risk. OR increase the cost and have raptors function like interceptors. Idk it's yall call.

Autocannon Havocs. Pretty much the same out look on IG autocannons.

Bloodletters are perfect btw.

Chaos Lord's immolate could use a rework. Id like it to persuade Tactical Marines to get out of the area. Not a flat damage increase though. Maybe add a modifier on hit action the specifically target heavy infantry sort of how kraken rounds work.

Chaos Sorc...love him the only grip is how is doombots are hit or miss...literally. This probably can't be changed though. I tried myself it just looks weird when fiddled with.

Plague Champion. The real reason why Melta Gun raptors need a buff because good luck with a tank.

Chosen PM's need a nerf. Everyone agrees on this. Lower Hp regen a bit same with regular PMs.

Nurgle Pred. The DoT damage based on range should be looked at imo, since it's nearly neglectable. Unless you are IG.

Orks...Sluggas nobs swamp 'em could use a red increase but it's not totally needed.

Battery Pack. Cost increase please. The 150 hp heal on orks (which is already too strong) but it also works on vehicles. Storm boyz turn into actual t1 nobs with mekboy support. And let's not even mention the pain boy heal.

Pain boy. Melee resistance please. I mean i know he lost a leg and all but he can still fight. Don't leave out the crippled that's mean boss.

Mek Boy's turrets. 150/20 for a piece of nonsense. Lower it to 150/10 and reduced the damage by a small amount. And then remove the scrape ability. People will then actually use the dang thing. I mean "two grotz in a can comin' up" is an amazing quote. Let's not have it go to waste #makegrotzgreatagain

Angry Bitz damage buff could get a small decrease from 35% to 30%. And reduced the energy cost to 45 plz. Make shoot 'em good actually useful ty. Or just replace the thing with a bag of gitz. And he just throws them at the enemy to knock them down. World's more useful than how the ability works atm.

Honestly i can think of too much else on orks they are already in an amazing spot imo.

Tyranids. My main concern is zoanthropes need the snare back even if it's just 30% movement snare and also reduce the damage to around 90-100 and then i am fine.

Ravener Alpha Melee builds might be too strong but I have to play, play againsts and see it more often to get a good judgment on this.

Venom Cannon Fex should get fire on the move again or a Range increase to 50. So then its actual worth its price. Or like the trend is already lower the cost for the upgrade to 100/35 like how the lascannon upgrades worked. Yes i know the Venom canon fex comes with a artillery ability but so what. The Venom Cannon is on a slow mobile platform that needs to go to base when it needs to heal. And it doesn't do that much damage anyway. The only reason why it can do anything anyway is because it's health pool allows for it to bully other tanks. But it will lose a chunk of HP from doing so and will have to walk back to base to heal up while the tank get repairs so much faster and hit the field again to half the time the fex does. Plus the moment this fex get snared it's usually dead. He can Knock back the AV set up team but they will just get right back up. Yes you can try and focus that set up but that leaves your synapse creatures wide open which is fatal. The Barbed Strangler suppress and does insane damage and can spawn spore mines to do even more suppression and damage. Your only hope being a tank or heavy melee to deal with a barbed Fex effectively and another snaring AV setup. While the Venom cannon fex can be put at bay by one AV set up. 150/50 is way to much on a squad that already costs 600/150. For the price tag of 750/200 this should perform way better than it does.

The Thornback Fex could also a bit of a buff. Lower the req cost to 135 from 150. Keep the power cost. I still think it underperforms when compared to the cost.

Think that is my two cents.

Black Relic wrote:Walkers should also be able to path over infantry units. But that's a personal thing that doesn't really matter.

Seninels would suddenly not make me feel like RQing, considering that repairing it turns the ENTIRE GM squad immobile in pathfinding

Psycho wrote:

Black Relic wrote:Walkers should also be able to path over infantry units. But that's a personal thing that doesn't really matter.

Seninels would suddenly not make me feel like RQing, considering that repairing it turns the ENTIRE GM squad immobile in pathfinding

fucking hell no, play coh2 and come back, it would make any infantry based AV completely useless, can you image a transports just pushing through FDs? They would never fire because they have to give priority to the vehicle and lose their target.

Ace of Swords wrote:

Psycho wrote:

Black Relic wrote:Walkers should also be able to path over infantry units. But that's a personal thing that doesn't really matter.

Seninels would suddenly not make me feel like RQing, considering that repairing it turns the ENTIRE GM squad immobile in pathfinding

fucking hell no, play coh2 and come back, it would make any infantry based AV completely useless, can you image a transports just pushing through FDs? They would never fire because they have to give priority to the vehicle and lose their target.

Last time I checked transports didn't have legs, nor did FDs have repair

Psycho wrote:

Ace of Swords wrote:

Psycho wrote:
Seninels would suddenly not make me feel like RQing, considering that repairing it turns the ENTIRE GM squad immobile in pathfinding

fucking hell no, play coh2 and come back, it would make any infantry based AV completely useless, can you image a transports just pushing through FDs? They would never fire because they have to give priority to the vehicle and lose their target.

Last time I checked transports didn't have legs, nor did FDs have repair

I was quoting black, too lazy to find his that part in his wall of text

Well i thought a wall of text was when someone didn't utilize the enter bar. And since i separated each statement with a blank line i though it would be easier to go around in it. Maybe ill add color for each race i mentioned.

Either way i mentioned walkers specifically so transports would stay unaffected. But its not a change that needs to happen. Just when a repairing unit path blockes a walker is very annoying. While we are on this point i honestly don't like how tanks have moving priority because some players abuse it. I mean i used to an concluded that it made me a bad player since i had to rely crappy algorithms to win me the game. I would like Walkers that have legs to be able to walk over infantry but also have tank not be able to push infantry out of the way.

And I already mentioned the SM changes. And honestly most imo are bug fixes or oversights.

Black Relic wrote:
Raptor melta guns need some love. Honestly id say just a flat cost decrease to 50/20. Freakin unit is probably going to die anyway when they get this upgrade if there is counter initiation and you get the most out of this when the AC is purchase which is a MASSIVE risk. OR increase the cost and have raptors function like interceptors. Idk it's yall call.

Autocannon Havocs. Pretty much the same out look on IG autocannons.

Chosen PM's need a nerf. Everyone agrees on this. Lower Hp regen a bit same with regular PMs.

Wait, you want a buff on a jumping 4 melta gun squad, that has a melta bomb ?! Do U want them to kill walkers on their own or so? )

Autocannon havocs - why they can not be suppressed?- intended?

Chosen PM and the usual PM have somehow too much health.

Bloodletters under worship -.-

Sneery_Thug wrote:Wait, you want a buff on a jumping 4 melta gun squad, that has a melta bomb ?! Do U want them to kill walkers on their own or so?

I agree. Raptors with melta guns are pretty powerful already. A good tool to kill fast moving tanks. They are doing slightly less damage than a Storm Trooper Melta squad but that is okay. Their jumping ability is powerful by it self already.

Sneery_Thug wrote:
Wait, you want a buff on a jumping 4 melta gun squad, that has a melta bomb ?! Do U want them to kill walkers on their own or so? )

I largely agree but one issue is that if the raptors have not leveled I don't think they can actually use their melta bomb after a jump. Same with a tank - if they approach on foot, they will bleed. If they jump, they won't be able to use the bomb, and they will bleed.

I have never really loved the melta raptors as a T3 upgrade and I definitely don't think it is ever worth buy raptors to immediately upgrade to melta. They just seem like an awkward unit.

^^^^

Because that is. Sorry for not really explaining it. Melta Raptors are amazing only when they have the leader because they need that extra model for the damage and the survivability. But paying 400\40 + 100/25 +75/25 = 575/90 for fully upgrade melta raptors is a nono. Because If you have tried to field level 1 melta raptors vs a good player the raptors will jump in get the melta off and then have to immediately retreat. Because that tank will have something near it to either force melee so they cant use the melta guns or there will be a unit that can actually counter initiate.

I have pulled back a unit to do just that. Plus since the melta raptors melta bomb doesn't stop weaponry on a tank i sometimes get a dread just so they have to choose what to target. and then the dread in either case will run down the melta raptors. YEs i know i just spend 450/120 for that dread but now they have to get another melta raptor because whatever role they needed the first melta raptor they just won't cut it anymore.


As for the Havocs my concern is the same with the IG autocannons. They do a lot of AV damage and they could use their own damage type imo and maybe just do 10% less AV damage whilst everything else stays the same. Although Chaos Autocannons could use a cooldown increase between volleys but i just hate it when they are doubled up so i am a little biased against them lol.

If sentinels could clip through infantry that would be fantastic. Major buff and a massive quality of life improvement. It might seriously affect balance though as sentinels would then become something that a lot more players could keep alive. Double sents would be viable for even us micro-impaired (add bigger Power cost).

It sounds so much like "working as intended" that I think relic would have done it if it didn't have some bizarre unintended consequence like being unable to melee walkers or walkers.

If this is a BALANCE rant, why is it not in the BALANCE section? I don't mean to be a dick here but we have a specific section in the forums for balance related threads.

This was in the SM buff thread when it got removed.

Btw i realized autocannon_pvp is a thing already. Maybe reduces the damage the weapon type does vs vehicles a tad. Maybe from 75% to 70%

Nurland wrote:If this is a BALANCE rant, why is it not in the BALANCE section? I don't mean to be a dick here but we have a specific section in the forums for balance related threads.

Not his fault, it's on me. I'll try to figure out how to move threads now.
Black's stuff was basically the only thing worth keeping in here so far.

Nurland wrote:If this is a BALANCE rant, why is it not in the BALANCE section? I don't mean to be a dick here but we have a specific section in the forums for balance related threads.

Nurland, remember that really awesome post that Vindi made that you were the first person to comment on. This is that same thread.

Ah... I see now. Well... Dunno if this thread should just get nuked or moved

Ace of Swords wrote:fucking hell no, play coh2 and come back, it would make any infantry based AV completely useless, can you image a transports just pushing through FDs? They would never fire because they have to give priority to the vehicle and lose their target.

Came back from a cancerous match to add that it's already like that ingame. Hell the battlewagon is built around the concept.

Black Relic wrote:^^^^
Because that is. Sorry for not really explaining it. Melta Raptors are amazing only when they have the leader because they need that extra model for the damage and the survivability. But paying 400\40 + 100/25 +75/25 = 575/90 for fully upgrade melta raptors is a nono. Because If you have tried to field level 1 melta raptors vs a good player the raptors will jump in get the melta off and then have to immediately retreat. Because that tank will have something near it to either force melee so they cant use the melta guns or there will be a unit that can actually counter initiate.

I have pulled back a unit to do just that. Plus since the melta raptors melta bomb doesn't stop weaponry on a tank i sometimes get a dread just so they have to choose what to target. and then the dread in either case will run down the melta raptors. YEs i know i just spend 450/120 for that dread but now they have to get another melta raptor because whatever role they needed the first melta raptor they just won't cut it anymore.

Tinibombini wrote:I largely agree but one issue is that if the raptors have not leveled I don't think they can actually use their melta bomb after a jump. Same with a tank - if they approach on foot, they will bleed. If they jump, they won't be able to use the bomb, and they will bleed.

I have never really loved the melta raptors as a T3 upgrade and I definitely don't think it is ever worth buy raptors to immediately upgrade to melta. They just seem like an awkward unit.

1) Raptors do NOT loose their levels on upgrading to meltaguns+bomb - so u they will have already lvl 2 or 3 at least. That means, they can jump AND throw meltabomb at once - which will be the end of a tank without extra armor (on rear armor in one volley after bomb.) I used them myself vs Loldar - fire prism dies even without being hit at rear armor.

2) They have fantastic synergy with PM. And yes, you can say, it costs 575/90 + 400/40. But for example assault terminators are not viable (at least in team games) without a librarian with upgrades (ok, they are as a tanky "capping VP under fire unit".) And this synergy costs you 650/100 + 500/95 (u see the cost difference?)

Sneery_Thug wrote:
1) Raptors do NOT loose their levels on upgrading to meltaguns+bomb - so u they will have already lvl 2 or 3 at least. That means, they can jump AND throw meltabomb at once - which will be the end of a tank without extra armor (on rear armor in one volley after bomb.) I used them myself vs Loldar - fire prism dies even without being hit at rear armor.

I didn't say that they lost levels when upgrading so I don't know what you are on about. The point we were discussing was the viability of buying them to immediately upgrade to meltas. Reading comprehension FTW.

Nurland wrote:Ah... I see now. Well... Dunno if this thread should just get nuked or moved

It was moved to its own thread. The thread vindicator made was removed and my post was made into a separate thread.


But as for the Raptor thingy. Tini pretty much said what i meant. Melta raptors are not worth getting out of the gate. And sometimes you HAVE to get that AV on Chaos that can close the distance quickly.

And If i was Eldar and saw melta raptors i would respond by getting shees. Because the Suppression and the counter initiation. The only trouble i would have is the FP and dispersed shot hitting the shees as well.

And as for the Comparison between AST and Libby between PM and Raptors is not worth compare cost effectiveness in being AV since AST aren't really considered an AV unit due to them being slow. And when AST with quicking are still too slow to catch a tank. They are more of a Anti-Walker unit if anything or something that is just there to be a massive thorn in the back side seeing as it take so much to get them to stop chasing a high priority unit of yours. And then AST lighting claws comes in and the whole libby and AST role changes again.

PM and melta raptors do something completely different. If you wanted a proper comparison I would say ASM with Melta bomb and Missile Tacs. The cost is similar. Although then you look at the actual unit and their roles and Melta bomb is to set up kills while missile tacs isn't a very reliable way to kill a vehicle (other than a wartruck w/o armor upgrade) but it is meant to put pressure on it and then have the tacs become a priority and free up space for another unit. Honestly their damage with the Missile launcher is enough to make people back up more than anything imo. Which is totally fine because tacs can also be Anti HI/SHI and anti garrison and anti-I with their weapon upgrades.

I moved it since there are some actually reasonable posts here.

This is so big, but fuckit. Here ya go:

Razorbacks smoke nade actually working immediately rather than 3 seconds after its detonation.
Maybe not instant, but a shorter cast time could make this a lot more rewarding to use. Maybe reduce the damage mitigation to like 70% at the same time, in case it gets nuts.

Also changing the merciless strike so it actually operates better caz atm it fucking sucks only because of how the serg has to path first before using the ability when he should just use the ability. Kinda like i fix that problem and honestly it's too good when i did fix it.
I find it's pretty reasonable to use and target as is, so I'd be hesitant here.

Apothecary's aura stacking with the infiltration kit health regen needs to be fixed because that's a little broken. Each model gets 7.5 hp regen per second when out of combat (which mean they can be shot at but they cant be shooting back). On four models that's an insane 30 hp per second across the squad.
% increase of base healing regen is a problem waiting to happen. Make Apo and Zoan aura flat values, solve all these problems. (I now understand why Scouts never die in 3v3)

Force Commander's Standard could use a little nerf in some way. Not sure how though. This thing with Tac plasma is a bit too strong. The Sword could use a little rework. I say the initial battle cry gives 15% and after that ever special give 10% like normal. I have had a FC with Power sword and range terminators bet OM terminators in melee before. Not cool. Although it was for me.
I don't think any changes are needed at all here. Sword is cheap, but it means skipping other amazing weapons, and encourages a very buff focused gameplay. Don't see a problem.

Armor of Alacrity needs a small req cost reduction to 105 from 110 and the Artificer armor needs a req increase to 110 or 115. AA stills get overshadowed by Artificer because the health regen energy regen and 200 health is a bit too hard to say no to plus is amazing on him ever since the bolt pistol buff. He has sustain ability and is not easy to kite anymore.
Change from 5 to 10 point cost adjustments and I'm in (105 is too ugly). They are pretty well balanced against each other, but a tiny change like this would be generaly good.

Shotgun scout could use some tweaking in their damage modifiers at the long and distant range as well as making the long and distant range different and not the same 26. Shotgun blast should be used buy the whole squad. And have a range ignore when the ability starts so the scouts are constantly moving forward to the target. And this also fixes the long ignored bug of double shotgun blasts from a single scout squad. There is no way this was intended. Btw did something similar to ASM before so even when they get knocked back they still jump to the targeted location without having the walker into range and then jumping. Although i'm still experimenting.
The damage thing doesn't make sense to me - what is the net result? If it's Scout damage increase, hell no.
Absolutely give Explosive Shot a range leeway, the stutter step when using unit targeted abilities is the worst.

ASM melta bomb slow should not stack with other slows. Stun locking should never have been a thing anyway. Also the squad should also be immune the KB when throwing it. Just saying.
I'm not sure it's bad to let 2 snares stack, as long as they from unique sources. Either make snare globally never stack, or let them stack with diminishing returns maybe. Not sure anything needs changing though.
KB immunity I disagree 100% on. If anything a cast time reduction - I think it's fine and good to have units get interrupted mid cast for some abilities.

Walkers should also be able to path over infantry units. But that's a personal thing that doesn't really matter.
Not touching this

Alturch buffs too unit when she lands is stupid strong. And the Speed increased she provides should be increased but the speed buff be exclusive so it doesn't stack so no more speed 13123456 banshees.
Meh, seems fine.

Wraithguard need to have fire on the move removed and if they keep it the unit gets moved to t3 and the D cannon switches to t2 and the singularity ability is unlocked at t3.
I don't hate fotm WG as much as others. I found their slower speed, damage and courage damage reasonable offsets. I actually think they were easier to aim shots without fotm.

Dire avengers needs to have their cost increased to 280. Because 300 it actually too much bute 270 is also too little small nerf will probably find this units proper place.
300 was not too much. DA are overpowered at 270. Top damage, health and movespeed for cost, while also having deep and varied upgrades. Nerf base stats, or 300 at the very least.

Dark Reapers range is stupid, nearly (they are on the VERY edge of the firing arc) out ranging suppression teams when unbuffed. Reduce the range by 2-4 and lower reload speed or cooldown to compensate.
They seem ok to me. They have a real interesting role and function with that long range now. If they need nerfs, I'd prefer to hit damage, cost or health instead of range.

Warp spiders.....fucking amazing. Idk what to do with them but they needs a miniscule nerf. I mean this unit is almost the only reason why my Banshee and autarch builds work soo fucking well.
Spiders seem fine?

Falcon reinforcement radius could go down. and its req cost could be reduced too to compensate but hey i don't really care if the falcon gets looked at.
Falcon is an overpreforming, easy choice for most compositions that overshadows most other Eldar T2 units. This unit needs nerfs, not buffs.

Seer Council....stupid jumps need to not do so much damage. The Knockback is already freaking annoying for units trying to use a targeted ability.
T3 suppressible melee infantry squad doesn't need any nerfs

Inquisitors hammer of the witches. Remove her always facing the enemy so it doesn't. This is for almost every one of her abilities. Make her time for the ability to go off smaller but also make a way for her not do the ability again when she is disrupted. Idk if Assail works like this but if it does not, increases it range by 5 and have it so if she get disrupted the ability stops.
This needs more clarity to respond to it. A lot of disjointed ideas.

The Guardsmen serg pisses me off. The serg after the first two should cost a bit more. The amount of damage (2 gms plus him) and eco stability these bastards bring is amazing for them to constantly be overlooked.
Youre talking about the commisar here I think. The power cost increase last patch went a long way for me. Maybe a small req increase, but it might be fine tbh. IG upkeep could stand to go up a bit too.

The Sentinel needs a purpose later in the game. I would like to have an armor upgrade in t3 to change his armor type to super heavy to protect against small arms fire. Plus the things need some love.
No. No no no. Play against better sent players

IG autocannons....need to do less AV damage. And AV damage specifically they might need their own damage type for that though.
Agree. Maybe autocannon setup teams get a new damage type that is just 75% damage against vehicles, leave everything else the same?

Kasrkin. Do something about them.
Yeah... Not sure what though. I feel like they need to specialize more, instead of trying to be a generalist troop?

Inspire determination. Lower the Speed buff and make the speed buff exclusive. Speed 11 Ograns aren't cool. In return lower the cost for bionic eye.
No opinions.

Stubbornness. Health regen needs to be lowered. He can keep the 75% extra damage he is able to get.
Yeah, the speed he can go from empty to full is excessive. I think there is room to nerf it a bit and keep it reasonable. Maybe reduce price a bit too. Maybe have the lower end regen higher, and the upper lower? I dunno.

Carapace armor. Health regen that thing gives. Yaaaa no too much. Lower it to 2 from 3.5 and add energy regen.
Adding energy regen would undo the goal here, but I agree the regen should be a bit lower. Not too much - the commie that invests in it is missing other options - but a bit (like 2.5 or 3).

LG the Incoming ability needs to not block ability KB and have the wargear cost lowered after. Stabilizer health regen duration could use a small decrease.
Don't see a need for either of these changes.

Basilisk flare needs a red increase as well to 80-85. 75 red to completely shut down another player's army and nearly win the fight from that is ridiculous. If that doesn't happen the radius that it affects units needs to be lowered because atm its super powerful.
Red cost up on this would be fine and appropriate given it's power.

Heretic needs their doomblast damage back when the get the AC everyone has agreed on that. P.S it annoys me when people say the heretics are fragile this patch when their health was not touched. How about the cost effectiveness out of the gate is as good anymore since the nerf?
Tic XP down a bit, AC gains some more melee or doomblast damage.

Raptor melta guns need some love. Honestly id say just a flat cost decrease to 50/20. Freakin unit is probably going to die anyway when they get this upgrade if there is counter initiation and you get the most out of this when the AC is purchase which is a MASSIVE risk. OR increase the cost and have raptors function like interceptors. Idk it's yall call.
Yeah, this squad is very weak. Unfortunately Chaos AV is absurd, so it's hard to feel sympathy...

Autocannon Havocs. Pretty much the same out look on IG autocannons.
Yep.

Bloodletters are perfect btw.
Nope. They could so safely increase in supply or cost. I don't think it's needed, but still, these guys are super stars.

Chaos Lord's immolate could use a rework. Id like it to persuade Tactical Marines to get out of the area. Not a flat damage increase though. Maybe add a modifier on hit action the specifically target heavy infantry sort of how kraken rounds work.
I dunno, it's already a super strong wargear and a versatile power on one of the best commanders...

Chaos Sorc...love him the only grip is how is doombots are hit or miss...literally. This probably can't be changed though. I tried myself it just looks weird when fiddled with.
Yeah, good luck! Maybe look at cover modifiers.

Plague Champion. The real reason why Melta Gun raptors need a buff because good luck with a tank.
If you are having problems with tanks as Chaos, I'm not sure what to say.

Chosen PM's need a nerf. Everyone agrees on this. Lower Hp regen a bit same with regular PMs.
Yep. Overly durable anti-all that excessively punish some interesting builds, shutting down diversity.

Nurgle Pred. The DoT damage based on range should be looked at imo, since it's nearly neglectable. Unless you are IG.
Maybe make the DoT plasma damage? Would make it more evenly good across the board. Love to the nurg pread would be fine.

Orks...Sluggas nobs swamp 'em could use a red increase but it's not totally needed.
Meh.

Battery Pack. Cost increase please. The 150 hp heal on orks (which is already too strong) but it also works on vehicles. Storm boyz turn into actual t1 nobs with mekboy support. And let's not even mention the pain boy heal.
I dunno, this requires a lot of micro and timing and allows him to support melee builds. I'd be super cautious with nerfing it.

Pain boy. Melee resistance please. I mean i know he lost a leg and all but he can still fight. Don't leave out the crippled that's mean boss.
Yep.

Mek Boy's turrets. 150/20 for a piece of nonsense. Lower it to 150/10 and reduced the damage by a small amount. And then remove the scrape ability. People will then actually use the dang thing. I mean "two grotz in a can comin' up" is an amazing quote. Let's not have it go to waste #makegrotzgreatagain
Agree that it would be cool for this turret to be useful. Disagree with the proposed change (it sounds like a nerf).

Angry Bitz damage buff could get a small decrease from 35% to 30%. And reduced the energy cost to 45 plz. Make shoot 'em good actually useful ty. Or just replace the thing with a bag of gitz. And he just throws them at the enemy to knock them down. World's more useful than how the ability works atm.
Nothing about Angry Bits needs buffing. Not sure about the shoota - whats wrong with it?

Honestly i can think of too much else on orks they are already in an amazing spot imo.
Agree. Orks are very strong right now, versatile and varied in the builds they can pull off.

Tyranids. My main concern is zoanthropes need the snare back even if it's just 30% movement snare and also reduce the damage to around 90-100 and then i am fine.
Remove the damage completely and it'd still be fine with the snare.

Ravener Alpha Melee builds might be too strong but I have to play, play againsts and see it more often to get a good judgment on this.
RA sucks imo, and his melee build sucks too. I'd buff it before nerfing it, as well as other aspects of his kit.

Venom Cannon Fex should get fire on the move again or a Range increase to 50. So then its actual worth its price. Or like the trend is already lower the cost for the upgrade to 100/35 like how the lascannon upgrades worked. Yes i know the Venom canon fex comes with a artillery ability but so what. The Venom Cannon is on a slow mobile platform that needs to go to base when it needs to heal. And it doesn't do that much damage anyway. The only reason why it can do anything anyway is because it's health pool allows for it to bully other tanks. But it will lose a chunk of HP from doing so and will have to walk back to base to heal up while the tank get repairs so much faster and hit the field again to half the time the fex does. Plus the moment this fex get snared it's usually dead. He can Knock back the AV set up team but they will just get right back up. Yes you can try and focus that set up but that leaves your synapse creatures wide open which is fatal. The Barbed Strangler suppress and does insane damage and can spawn spore mines to do even more suppression and damage. Your only hope being a tank or heavy melee to deal with a barbed Fex effectively and another snaring AV setup. While the Venom cannon fex can be put at bay by one AV set up. 150/50 is way to much on a squad that already costs 600/150. For the price tag of 750/200 this should perform way better than it does.
VC has been terrible since it lost fotm. There are a lot of ways this could be changed, but at the very least it's price should swap with the BS upgrade - which is better in almost every situation.

The Thornback Fex could also a bit of a buff. Lower the req cost to 135 from 150. Keep the power cost. I still think it underperforms when compared to the cost.
Yes, but fex underpreforming for cost is important imo. Nid get some really efficient tools and are encouraged for high aggro, close the game out. Fexs being a bit overcosted allows for catchup, which is ok imo. the only problem I truly have with fexs is how utterly the VC fails at detering tanks. Thornback is fine and is my goto fex in most situations.

Cyris wrote:This is so big, but fuckit. Here ya go:

Razorbacks smoke nade actually working immediately rather than 3 seconds after its detonation.
Maybe not instant, but a shorter cast time could make this a lot more rewarding to use. Maybe reduce the damage mitigation to like 70% at the same time, in case it gets nuts.

I have had multiple times where to smoke nade when off and i still took full damage from a AV weapon. It wasn't fun. I changed it a bit though so the smoke nade when it expoloded then applied the buff. Seems to work extremely well.

Cyris wrote:Shotgun scout could use some tweaking in their damage modifiers at the long and distant range as well as making the long and distant range different and not the same 26. Shotgun blast should be used buy the whole squad. And have a range ignore when the ability starts so the scouts are constantly moving forward to the target. And this also fixes the long ignored bug of double shotgun blasts from a single scout squad. There is no way this was intended. Btw did something similar to ASM before so even when they get knocked back they still jump to the targeted location without having the walker into range and then jumping. Although i'm still experimenting.
The damage thing doesn't make sense to me - what is the net result? If it's Scout damage increase, hell no.
Absolutely give Explosive Shot a range leeway, the stutter step when using unit targeted abilities is the worst.

It would make shotguns worse and their longest range. Because atm the distant and the long range values for the shotguns are the same as well as their damage based on distance. So it would be a nerf.

Cyris wrote:ASM melta bomb slow should not stack with other slows. Stun locking should never have been a thing anyway. Also the squad should also be immune the KB when throwing it. Just saying.
I'm not sure it's bad to let 2 snares stack, as long as they from unique sources. Either make snare globally never stack, or let them stack with diminishing returns maybe. Not sure anything needs changing though.
KB immunity I disagree 100% on. If anything a cast time reduction - I think it's fine and good to have units get interrupted mid cast for some abilities.

Now using Kb to keep a unit from using an ability is ok. But having a unit get back up to try and get in range to use it again when the player has no control is not. As for slows increasing but not locking i am ok with. But that ,although not hard, would take some time to do. And personally i would rather keep slows from stacking with one another. A good start into this would be keeping Warp Spider nades from stacking on the movement speed slow. There is their nerf.

Cyris wrote:Alturch buffs too unit when she lands is stupid strong. And the Speed increased she provides should be increased but the speed buff be exclusive so it doesn't stack so no more speed 13123456 banshees.
Meh, seems fine.

I tend to play with the warlock when i abuse this leap since this stack with swift movement. And brings back the deadly memories of speed 1 million banshees.

Cyris wrote:Wraithguard need to have fire on the move removed and if they keep it the unit gets moved to t3 and the D cannon switches to t2 and the singularity ability is unlocked at t3.
I don't hate fotm WG as much as others. I found their slower speed, damage and courage damage reasonable offsets. I actually think they were easier to aim shots without fotm.

Well that's because they had to stay still to shot so they were 100% accurate. Atm is 50%. And i mainly say this for players who invest in set up teams. Tieing a unit up in melee should keep wraith guard from getting of their dangerous volleys. And these guys with enhance and Swift movement is bonkers.

Cyris wrote:Dire avengers needs to have their cost increased to 280. Because 300 it actually too much bute 270 is also too little small nerf will probably find this units proper place.
300 was not too much. DA are overpowered at 270. Top damage, health and movespeed for cost, while also having deep and varied upgrades. Nerf base stats, or 300 at the very least.

Well atm the 3 DA bleed a decent amount now they people have slowly getting used to it and have developed ways to deal it is to a certain extent. Even if its 10 req increase their gen is delayed a bit and they bleed a bit more without discouraging 3 DA openings. 280 might be too little but i don't want it back at 300. I really want to try and find their soft spot.

Cyris wrote:Falcon reinforcement radius could go down. and its req cost could be reduced too to compensate but hey i don't really care if the falcon gets looked at.
Falcon is an overpreforming, easy choice for most compositions that overshadows most other Eldar T2 units. This unit needs nerfs, not buffs.

Well my proposed change would require the eldar player to play more closely to their falcon which would also put it into more danger and more opportunities to be taken down. They couldnt take engagements too far way form the falcon making shees a bit less comfortable room (support) to operate.

Cyris wrote:Seer Council....stupid jumps need to not do so much damage. The Knockback is already freaking annoying for units trying to use a targeted ability.
T3 suppressible melee infantry squad doesn't need any nerfs

I think it is reasonable. They still get that amazing KB but their leap doesn't do damage. It would really hurt their ability that much. Only getting close retreat kills wont happen which i think is totally fine.

Cyris wrote:Inquisitors hammer of the witches. Remove her always facing the enemy so it doesn't. This is for almost every one of her abilities. Make her time for the ability to go off smaller but also make a way for her not do the ability again when she is disrupted. Idk if Assail works like this but if it does not, increases it range by 5 and have it so if she get disrupted the ability stops.
This needs more clarity to respond to it. A lot of disjointed ideas.

I want the inquisitor to not have to face the target from her abilities to go off. I think that might actually help her abilityies from not going off sometimes (specifically Hammer of the Witches). Whenever she get knocked back while using an ability she tries to cast it again. I think that could be changed a bit. To either she getting her energy back and can try again later. And lower the energy cost, not refund the energy and lower the cooldown of the ability. But i am more of a fan of the first suggestion of she can try again later.

Cyris wrote:The Sentinel needs a purpose later in the game. I would like to have an armor upgrade in t3 to change his armor type to super heavy to protect against small arms fire. Plus the things need some love.
No. No no no. Play against better sent players

Was a poor atempt at getting sent to be an option in t3. Didn't work.

Cyris wrote:IG autocannons....need to do less AV damage. And AV damage specifically they might need their own damage type for that though.
Agree. Maybe autocannon setup teams get a new damage type that is just 75% damage against vehicles, leave everything else the same?

They already do 75% to vehicles It might need to be lowered to 70% and start from there since huge changes and big jumps is something that that should be avoided.

Cyris wrote:Carapace armor. Health regen that thing gives. Yaaaa no too much. Lower it to 2 from 3.5 and add energy regen.
Adding energy regen would undo the goal here, but I agree the regen should be a bit lower. Not too much - the commie that invests in it is missing other options - but a bit (like 2.5 or 3).

Well the energy regen was to allow the LC to execute even more which is what the armor's premise is. It would lower the forcus on making the LC extremely amazing and focus even more on buffing his army.

Cyris wrote:LG the Incoming ability needs to not block ability KB and have the wargear cost lowered after. Stabilizer health regen duration could use a small decrease.
Don't see a need for either of these changes.

The Stabilizers health regen buff stacks with the bunker. When you include the Medic serg then units are extremely hard to force off. Incoming makes infantry ability KB immune. The only ability in the game that should make a units KB immune is the Battle Cry and the Angels of Death global. And ability that affects the whole army should not be given that pleasure.

Cyris wrote:Plague Champion. The real reason why Melta Gun raptors need a buff because good luck with a tank.
If you are having problems with tanks as Chaos, I'm not sure what to say.

L2P. But in seriousness there is a reason why i play CL and Sorc and harly even touch PC. Its because they deal with Tanks so much more easier then the PC.

Cyris wrote:Nurgle Pred. The DoT damage based on range should be looked at imo, since it's nearly neglectable. Unless you are IG.
Maybe make the DoT plasma damage? Would make it more evenly good across the board. Love to the nurg pread would be fine.

That could do it. I would make it more dangerous to even SM and terminatoers. Since the DoT would be enough to offset their health regen.

Cyris wrote:Battery Pack. Cost increase please. The 150 hp heal on orks (which is already too strong) but it also works on vehicles. Storm boyz turn into actual t1 nobs with mekboy support. And let's not even mention the pain boy heal.

I dunno, this requires a lot of micro and timing and allows him to support melee builds. I'd be super cautious with nerfing it.

Well only the cost would go down. I tend to put pain boy heal on the stormboys before they jump in so they dont bleed or drop a model as quickly to counter initiation and then further maximizes my mekboy heal. It is easily the best armor in the game for mek boy unless you are trying to be cheeky and destroy his base.

Cyris wrote:Mek Boy's turrets. 150/20 for a piece of nonsense. Lower it to 150/10 and reduced the damage by a small amount. And then remove the scrape ability. People will then actually use the dang thing. I mean "two grotz in a can comin' up" is an amazing quote. Let's not have it go to waste #makegrotzgreatagain
Agree that it would be cool for this turret to be useful. Disagree with the proposed change (it sounds like a nerf).

Well it is but the turret would then be used to guard a req point from back capping units. Maybe not remove the scarpe ability and just lower the cost and the damage a bit but still. Also make the turret be affected by waaagh banners.

Cyris wrote:Angry Bitz damage buff could get a small decrease from 35% to 30%. And reduced the energy cost to 45 plz. Make shoot 'em good actually useful ty. Or just replace the thing with a bag of gitz. And he just throws them at the enemy to knock them down. World's more useful than how the ability works atm.
Nothing about Angry Bits needs buffing. Not sure about the shoota - whats wrong with it?

The proposed change to angry bits kinda offsets itself imo. The Warboss would not gain 35% more melee damage after the change and only gain 30% instead, so less immediately killing a model right after the charge. The Energy reduction is so the Warboss stay relevant as a god Ork hero because atm the only good thing about him is spike armor,angry bitz and his globals.

Cyris wrote:Tyranids. My main concern is zoanthropes need the snare back even if it's just 30% movement snare and also reduce the damage to around 90-100 and then i am fine.
Remove the damage completely and it'd still be fine with the snare.

I guess. I dot want to remove the damage as a whole as well but i think giving it a small snare and it rain some damage is a good start. Because if the slow is more than 30% then tyranids instantly the best race in the game. And i feel like if they have no damage on the focused warp blast the snare would be 40% which is alot when looking and nids.

Cyris wrote:Ravener Alpha Melee builds might be too strong but I have to play, play against and see it more often to get a good judgment on this.
RA sucks imo, and his melee build sucks too. I'd buff it before nerfing it, as well as other aspects of his kit.

Well my main melee build is acid splatter and toxic cysts to have 30 piercing splash damage when the Ravener alpha hits in melee. I would like his crippling taloen to have the slow reduced to 25% as well as the damage to 25% and allow the Ravener alpha to retain his range weapon. Strengthened Sinew would use a rework to while out of combat his movement speed is 2 and while in combat its 1.

Cyris wrote:Venom Cannon Fex should get fire on the move again or a Range increase to 50. So then its actual worth its price. Or like the trend is already lower the cost for the upgrade to 100/35 like how the lascannon upgrades worked. Yes i know the Venom canon fex comes with a artillery ability but so what. The Venom Cannon is on a slow mobile platform that needs to go to base when it needs to heal. And it doesn't do that much damage anyway. The only reason why it can do anything anyway is because it's health pool allows for it to bully other tanks. But it will lose a chunk of HP from doing so and will have to walk back to base to heal up while the tank get repairs so much faster and hit the field again to half the time the fex does. Plus the moment this fex get snared it's usually dead. He can Knock back the AV set up team but they will just get right back up. Yes you can try and focus that set up but that leaves your synapse creatures wide open which is fatal. The Barbed Strangler suppress and does insane damage and can spawn spore mines to do even more suppression and damage. Your only hope being a tank or heavy melee to deal with a barbed Fex effectively and another snaring AV setup. While the Venom cannon fex can be put at bay by one AV set up. 150/50 is way to much on a squad that already costs 600/150. For the price tag of 750/200 this should perform way better than it does.
VC has been terrible since it lost fotm. There are a lot of ways this could be changed, but at the very least it's price should swap with the BS upgrade - which is better in almost every situation.

Agreed

Cyris wrote:The Thornback Fex could also a bit of a buff. Lower the req cost to 135 from 150. Keep the power cost. I still think it underperforms when compared to the cost.
Yes, but fex underpreforming for cost is important imo. Nid get some really efficient tools and are encouraged for high aggro, close the game out. Fexs being a bit overcosted allows for catchup, which is ok imo. the only problem I truly have with fexs is how utterly the VC fails at detering tanks. Thornback is fine and is my goto fex in most situations.

I guess so. I would still like them to have maybe more Hp regen than normal. I would allow them an easier time to get into in melee combat and pull out of combat since they are vulnerable (if charge is not available). Maybe have the Health regen be present unless the Fex spawns rippers and then the health regen is lost for sometime.

To be clear, this is all 1v1 perspective.

Black Relic wrote:Well atm the 3 DA bleed a decent amount now they people have slowly getting used to it and have developed ways to deal it is to a certain extent. Even if its 10 req increase their gen is delayed a bit and they bleed a bit more without discouraging 3 DA openings. 280 might be too little but i don't want it back at 300. I really want to try and find their soft spot.

Going 3 DA was strong last patch when they cost 300. DA have the same health as shootas while being faster, dealing a lot more damage and having more versatile upgrades and better overall scaling. 10 more req will not make up this difference. They were fine at 300, they were strong at 300.

Black Relic wrote:Well my proposed change would require the eldar player to play more closely to their falcon which would also put it into more danger and more opportunities to be taken down. They couldnt take engagements too far way form the falcon making shees a bit less comfortable room (support) to operate.

This is still a net buff to an over-preforming unit. Reduce it's AV or AI damage and then we can talk about a price reduction

Black Relic wrote:I think it is reasonable. They still get that amazing KB but their leap doesn't do damage. It would really hurt their ability that much. Only getting close retreat kills wont happen which i think is totally fine.

I don't see why nerfing a weak, underused unit is reasonable.

Black Relic wrote:Inquisitor stuff

Sounds like general consistency with abilities getting canceled? If so, this should be a global pass. Formulate and codify the rules you think all abilities should follow so they can be assessed. Using specific examples helps.

Black Relic wrote:Was a poor atempt at getting sent to be an option in t3. Didn't work.

The problem is the goal. The goal sounds like get sents to scale better. This sounds like a very bad goal. Sents are super strong early game, then become artillery mid game, and age out later game. This is fine and good, the unit makes such an impact as is, and it aging out is an important foil to it's early game potency.

Black Relic wrote:They already do 75% to vehicles It might need to be lowered to 70% and start from there since huge changes and big jumps is something that that should be avoided.

Pretty sure you're wrong here. Autocannons (HWT, Havok and Psycannon specifically) are explosive damage, which is 100% damage to most sources including vehicles. Hilariously, Chaos Dread autocannon actually deals autocanon damage type, which is 75% as you say. I totally didn't even know their was an autocannon damage type already! The HWT and Havok should totaly be switched over! Chaos and IG have ample AV and both setup teams can choose las-cannon. Psycannons on the other hand would need some other OM changes also, since they are basically the main AV option they have.
Also, reducing the AV damage of the autos by 5% would be pointless. They need to be soft AV counters, and right now they are nearly hard counters. Example: Havok deals the same dps as a brightlance setup team!

Black Relic wrote:Well the energy regen was to allow the LC to execute even more which is what the armor's premise is. It would lower the forcus on making the LC extremely amazing and focus even more on buffing his army.

Right, but the energy also lets him tank, which he does a bit too much of with this cheap upgrade. If you want more executes, go further with the execute price reduction and 0 it out. If you want it to be an energy regen armor, the core of a caster focused commie, I'd say nuke the health regen completely.

Black Relic wrote:The Stabilizers health regen buff stacks with the bunker. When you include the Medic serg then units are extremely hard to force off. Incoming makes infantry ability KB immune. The only ability in the game that should make a units KB immune is the Battle Cry and the Angels of Death global. And ability that affects the whole army should not be given that pleasure.

IG stacking abilities to make them hard to dislodge is IG's specialty. Don't see a problem.
Who said only Battle Cry and AoD should give KB immunity? I sure don't agree.

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