Dawn of War Codex

I read This somewhere months back o.O .

There is a "strong possibility" that Relic Entertainment will work with Games Workshop on a new Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War game.

That's according to game director Quinn Duffy, who suggested to Eurogamer that Relic may go back to the drawing board for the third game in the series having stopped and started on a number of ideas .

When we look at things like that, especially when you get into very early development on future titles, some of it is beneficial from a learning experience, and some of it from a technology experience just isn't," he said.

"We've stopped and started on a number of things over the past that have given us lessons. But sometimes it's easier just to start again on something new. With Company of Heroes, when we started, we wanted to bring our level of tech up substantially. Going into the future, Relic's got to do that again. We've got to get our next generation engine ready for years down the road. Whatever's happening has to take that into account."

But is Relic working on Dawn of War 3?

i hope not

No relic is not working on DoW3, they only own the name of the series 'Dawn of War' but any sort of contract they had with GW was broken when they left THQ.

And ofc there is a strong possiblity since SEGA has got the fantasy license, for CA and now they also have relic under their wing, but I since there are like other 3 Warhammer 40k games in the work atm they aren't interested in DoW3, perhaps with a petition to show how many people would like to see it done, maybe GW would do something about it.

How can ppl still be so confused about this?

Relic did not own the Dawn of War IP or any licenses. They belonged to THQ, which also owned Relic.

Relic was sold to Sega, which also bought some IPs. A listing was scanned online that had several (though not all) Dawn of War titles on it.

A Relic director said: "Dawn of War, because it's a license and it's owned by Games Workshop, they have the opportunity to work that license with whoever they want. I would hope it would be us again." and "There's a strong possibility we'll all be working together again on Dawn of War." and this interview happened after the sale.

Kvek wrote:i hope not

Isn't it kind of weird you hang around here if you don't like them?

Its too good a series for them not to try and develop another game. They have the engine from CoH (a disappointing game, not bad but really let me down THANK FUCK FOR ELITE), they did the same thing with the last one. Im sure they will try again.

I think they would love to finish up on another game of the year! be nice. I think their only problem is they have taken the game to the edge of space where the warhammer universe is conserned and the next push would need to be an epic one, maybe the task is a little daunting but i think ideas and brains will collide and in 12/24 months we will be hearing something on a new and maybe final (not including expansions) game.

I certainly hope we see a sequel. Multiplayer aside, I've actually enjoyed playing the campaigns in the DoW franchise and would definitely love to see them expand on it.

I just hope that, if a sequel does come out, IG are part of the starting roster. No more having to wait like you did in Winter Assault/Retribution for DoWI/DoWII respectively. Always found it stupid that they modeled a lot of units for IG in the single player campaign, but couldn't be bothered to have them included as a playable race.

Ill tell you why, more money! like always!.

Thats the same reason there will be another DOW, you can bet your beans on it.

The worry is that RTS games in general are on the decline. MOBAs/brawlers have taken over a similar space. I'm not sure how CoH2 has done/is doing for Relic/Sega but I hope it's enough for DoW3 to be considered. Or heck - even to pick up support for DoW2 again. Technically it still holds up very well.

Relic streamed 2 weeks ago DoW 2 so they love the game:)

Indrid wrote:The worry is that RTS games in general are on the decline. MOBAs/brawlers have taken over a similar space. I'm not sure how CoH2 has done/is doing for Relic/Sega but I hope it's enough for DoW3 to be considered. Or heck - even to pick up support for DoW2 again. Technically it still holds up very well.

I've never really bought into that idea, that RTS is in decline. It's not like people who play strategy games suddenly decide it doesn't interest them anymore. They are all still out there, probably more than there ever was in the past.

It's more the lack of good RTS games coming out I think. Big publishers don't want to fund them because they all want the next COD cash cow, or some kind of ridiculous, free to play LoL/DOTA money printing machine.

Also, strategy gaming has always been kinda niche (fuck knows why, but the average joe seem to like games that require no thought at all, just brain dead rubbish.) Damn... there goes my faith in humanity again.

Hopefully, with the rise of crowd funding (kickstarter) we might see a slow recovery and resurgence in RTS titles being produced. Hell, someone has to finally convince the SC crowd that there are actually other, newer and better games out there. After all, they are playing the RTS equivalent of using carrier pigeon in the smartphone age.

DontTouchMyCrumpets wrote:(fuck knows why, but the average joe seem to like games that require no thought at all, just brain dead rubbish.) Damn... there goes my faith in humanity again.

Because of the masses taste in games due to whatever reason(s)? Like time restraints or job? I can see how you lost faith in humanity But for this reason?

Dark Riku wrote:

DontTouchMyCrumpets wrote:(fuck knows why, but the average joe seem to like games that require no thought at all, just brain dead rubbish.) Damn... there goes my faith in humanity again.

Because of the masses taste in games due to whatever reason(s)? Like time restraints or job? I can see how you lost faith in humanity But for this reason?

Haha yeah, maybe not that sole reason, probably a few contributing factors there.

I do get the time restraints, etc. reasoning... but by god, there are alot of bad games being played out there.

Big publishers are risk averse. The easiest way to be successful and for a game to last for awhile is to maintain a strong multiplayer presence. Singleplayer just doesn't sell as well anymore (with some exceptions) for very legitimate reasons. The only RTS game who is doing that currently is Star Craft. What SC does is incredibly polished and very refined. very few games live up to that. Creating a solid multi-player RTS is very resource intensive, as can be seen in dawn of war 2 (i.e. the engine is fucking complicated resulting in weird bugs. I'm honestly impressed it runs as well as it does), and they're also a pain to keep balanced just to to having some many factors constantly changing which we can see here as well. Not mention you need solid marketing and business direction. 90% of kickstar based RTS games are not going able to compete with the likes of Starcraft in terms of multiplayer.

The new command and Conquer had promise, but that's canceled now.

You see a lot of free to play/brawler games now because they are easier to build, balance and bugfix. F2P is also easier to maintain longterm due to the constant income as apposed to a single purchase.

Also please don't bash other genres, many have their merits and everybody's tastes are different. Think other games are only for people who "lack smarts" is narrow minded.

Flash wrote:Also please don't bash other genres, many have their merits and everybody's tastes are different. Think other games are only for people who "lack smarts" is narrow minded.

I think you misunderstand. I'm not bashing any genre as inferior or individuals differing tastes as misguided, just lamenting how often people refuse to try new things and broaden their horizons, in terms of thinking, and in terms gaming, leading to ignorance. Also, my coment about "brain dead rubbish (games)" isn't me implying others are stupid, just that in my experience, I have found many of my fellow gamers as lazy e.g. they refuse to play strategy games because it requires them to "think", or because strategy gaming is just for nerds, leading me back to the aforementioned ignorance. But meanwhile they have no qualms sitting and playing a cow clicker for hours on end. Now they are some bad games.

Anyway, besides all that, I agree with Pepper, in that DOW has made alot of people money, and GW and Sega also like money(alot), so its a pretty good bet we will see DOW3 sometime in the future. Yay!

nah people play shitty games, don't lie

Gorilla wrote:nah people play shitty games, don't lie

Nonsense - Call of Duty 9: Calm the Fuck Down, Everyone Put the Nukes Down was a fantastic game. It introduced nothing new in the franchise, recycled old plots and replaced the zombie/alien modes with the endless retirement home swarm mode and provided tons of DLC for me to waste my money on in order to buy content that was already pre-built into the game and needed to be unlocked for the measly price of $9.99 for each pack. You need to spend 3x the price of the original game on DLC to fully understand the beauty of it.

cod dlc actually costs 14.99 a shot.

Indrid wrote:The worry is that RTS games in general are on the decline. MOBAs/brawlers have taken over a similar space. I'm not sure how CoH2 has done/is doing for Relic/Sega but I hope it's enough for DoW3 to be considered. Or heck - even to pick up support for DoW2 again. Technically it still holds up very well.

People often forget the gaming industry is now over 10x the size of Hollywood. There is a bigger than ever market for everything from FPS to RTS games, but the gap between the best games and the slightly flawed is huge. Taking your example, CoH2 could have taken a decent chunk out of the Starcraft playerbase and tbh there was a time when it threatened to destabilise the DoW community. But there were some basic fundamentals they royally fucked up. Two races, one is way stronger. Bullets have a random chance to kill. Serious command lag (how they managed that when DOW is smooth and made 3 years before I will never know). etc. In many ways it is backwards on DoW2. It's questionable whether Relic will get a CoH2-style budget again after this.

Sega as a whole needs to branch out cos Sonic isn't going to cut it in today's market and they are trying to remain a big player. It makes no sense for them to bid $26 million at the last minute for Relic unless they are serious about getting a foothold in the Strategy game market. This isn't exactly small change even for them.

So let's see how their first strategy game holds up. It will be a big indicator of how much they're willing to invest in it and its success will probably determine the money that goes into their future strategy games. I don't have high hopes though.

Commissar_Badass wrote:

Gorilla wrote:nah people play shitty games, don't lie

Nonsense - Call of Duty 9: Calm the Fuck Down, Everyone Put the Nukes Down was a fantastic game. It introduced nothing new in the franchise, recycled old plots and replaced the zombie/alien modes with the endless retirement home swarm mode and provided tons of DLC for me to waste my money on in order to buy content that was already pre-built into the game and needed to be unlocked for the measly price of $9.99 for each pack. You need to spend 3x the price of the original game on DLC to fully understand the beauty of it.

COD is a shitty game though. its recycled crap for a new set of 12 year olds. Just like movies. After COD modern warfare 2 they didn't do anything special. Titanfall that's new, Halo was new for its time, battlefield introduces actual new mechanics with vehicles. Natural selection 2, planetside 2. COD is for console suckers.

Gorilla wrote: After COD 2 they didn't do anything special.

Wut?

i dont want to open a new thread so i post my thoughts here:)
(and pretty much this is the only forum for dow2, +relicnews but they dont accept my hotmail xD)
i allways wanted something from Relic in dow 2 or at least in dow 3

and this is more HARDCORE: friendly fire and improved physics

-all flame type damage affect your own squad
- melta weapons should puncture and go through walls, vehicles and infantry except superunits (half range only penetrates?) cos this is what i expect from a melta lol when i think about this weapon.+affect your own squad:)

and i could continue but this 2 is the most important for me i guess, it reminds me after every game:)

I hope if dow 3 will ever fall this 2 feature will be in lulz

Ok. I don't think you can understand why those ideas are terribad.

Faultron wrote:i dont want to open a new thread so i post my thoughts here:)
(and pretty much this is the only forum for dow2, +relicnews but they dont accept my hotmail xD)
i allways wanted something from Relic in dow 2 or at least in dow 3

and this is more HARDCORE: friendly fire and improved physics

-all flame type damage affect your own squad
- melta weapons should puncture and go through walls, vehicles and infantry except superunits (half range only penetrates?) cos this is what i expect from a melta lol when i think about this weapon.+affect your own squad:)

and i could continue but this 2 is the most important for me i guess, it reminds me after every game:)

I hope if dow 3 will ever fall this 2 feature will be in lulz

Sounds like you've bleed way to many units sitting in cover and getting BBQd by some hungry tacticals.

lol sounds like nobody understand what my mindset was, this is nothing to do with balance... and prett much every race has flamer/melta so wtf.... talking about

Faultron wrote:lol sounds like nobody understand what my mindset was, this is nothing to do with balance... and prett much every race has flamer/melta so wtf.... talking about

Okay so, when you talk about things like meltas dealing splash/penetration damage, and then talk about things like flamers dealing friendly splash, all I can really do is guess at your motivation beyond simply (oh that would be cool) just because your reasoning differs from mine.

I don't really care much about the melta issue because it simply overcomplicates the whole targeting mechanisms of the game, the kind of mechanic you describe would be difficult in something like the current engine where most damage targets are point based (with area/magnitude applied to those points).

While you might say that sounds easy, calculating line based penetration of cover for vertical depth provides some challenges and decisions as to how exactly that would work, and what circumstances and all sorts of complicated stuff that won't necessarily pay off in terms of effect.

As for the flamer issue, most players agree that responsible friendly splash (i.e. grenades or khorne dreadnought or wraithguard) is something acceptable and manageable, because there is an element of risk and reward involved in all of those situations, and the risk is 100% controllable by the player.

When you throw in something involuntary like flamethrowers dealing friendly splash, it doesn't take much to see how little control players have over that beyond simply avoiding flamer type weapons at all... in which case you've made the game worse by removing interest/complexity, as apposed to making it better by over-complicating.

While those suggestions may be cool in theory, in practice they don't really add calculable features to strategy/gameplay as much as adding unnecessary burden.

That is my uneducated opinion, although I suspect a fair number of players/designers would agree with me.

xerrol-nanoha wrote:

Faultron wrote:lol sounds like nobody understand what my mindset was, this is nothing to do with balance... and prett much every race has flamer/melta so wtf.... talking about

Okay so, when you talk about things like meltas dealing splash/penetration damage, and then talk about things like flamers dealing friendly splash, all I can really do is guess at your motivation beyond simply (oh that would be cool) just because your reasoning differs from mine.

I don't really care much about the melta issue because it simply overcomplicates the whole targeting mechanisms of the game, the kind of mechanic you describe would be difficult in something like the current engine where most damage targets are point based (with area/magnitude applied to those points).

While you might say that sounds easy, calculating line based penetration of cover for vertical depth provides some challenges and decisions as to how exactly that would work, and what circumstances and all sorts of complicated stuff that won't necessarily pay off in terms of effect.

As for the flamer issue, most players agree that responsible friendly splash (i.e. grenades or khorne dreadnought or wraithguard) is something acceptable and manageable, because there is an element of risk and reward involved in all of those situations, and the risk is 100% controllable by the player.

When you throw in something involuntary like flamethrowers dealing friendly splash, it doesn't take much to see how little control players have over that beyond simply avoiding flamer type weapons at all... in which case you've made the game worse by removing interest/complexity, as apposed to making it better by over-complicating.

While those suggestions may be cool in theory, in practice they don't really add calculable features to strategy/gameplay as much as adding unnecessary burden.

That is my uneducated opinion, although I suspect a fair number of players/designers would agree with me.

your whole post reads super fucking reasonably to me. Uses common sense steps using logic to reason a basic understanding of the game. I agree wholeheartedly that it seems he thought of his idea for two seconds without its drawbacks or limitation and came to the conclusion that.. IT WOULD BE COOL..as his entire argument...THANK THE EMPEROR FOR CAELTOS!

I am actually not sure if hes just trolling or ignorant since he seems to post these thoughtless posts everywhere.

just because you like easier games, i am not retard or unskilled

Faultron wrote:just because you like easier games, i am not retard or unskilled

What?

How does "I like easy games!" therefore lead to "you are an unskilled retard!!"

Also, although you might not read it the same. I was not stating a preference for easier games, as we all know that Dawn of war and similar strategy titles are rarely easy so to speak.

Also, I would not equate the ability or extent of a player to ideally control units with a game's challenge or difficulty. Although poor controls or unnecessary complications like auto-attacking friendly splash mechanics can be an artificial burden, such artificial burdens are rarely as satisfying on the actual challenge from complexity that a game can have without such burdens.

Besides, flamers dealing friendly splash would make last stand too easy

xerrol-nanoha wrote:What?

How does "I like easy games!" therefore lead to "you are an unskilled retard!!"

To my understanding he's saying he's not retarded or unskilled in response to Gorilla's post. He's not saying you are any of that.

quite humorous that every single thread somehow manages to turn into players taking shots at other players. Never fails