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Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 9:33 pm
by TripSin
Wtf did you do to the snipers and why? They are garbage now in this mod. No reason to get snipers anymore as Eldar lol
Edit: Toned down the unnecessary rage.
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 9:41 pm
by Dark Riku
I suggest you go play the cancer that is retail and leave Elite Mod be.
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 10:09 pm
by Torpid
Could it possibly be that a unit's purpose could have been slightly modified?
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 10:13 pm
by TripSin
Torpid wrote:Could it possibly be that a unit's purpose could have been slightly modified?
So what is their purpose now, because killing anything is COMPLETELY gone. Their CC is still just as trash. And they're still expensive to use just as a detector.
This nerf went way to far.
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 10:15 pm
by TripSin
TripSin wrote:Torpid wrote:Could it possibly be that a unit's purpose could have been slightly modified?
So what is their purpose now, because killing anything is COMPLETELY gone. Their CC is still just as trash. And they're still expensive to use just as a detector.
This nerf went way to far.
They were fine as they were.
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 10:21 pm
by Ace of Swords
We found choko's lost son
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 10:21 pm
by Dark Riku
TripSin wrote:So what is their purpose now,
Vision, detection, crowd control, making area stealth either defensively or offensively.
TripSin wrote:because killing anything is COMPLETELY gone.
Lie.
TripSin wrote:Their CC is still just as trash.
False. Shotgunblast across the map is a great tool.
TripSin wrote:And they're still expensive to use just as a detector.
See above.
TripSin wrote:This nerf went way to far.
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2017 10:48 pm
by Atlas
I actually recognize you from the DoWIII forums iirc, o/ buddy!
But no, in elite mod rangers are far cheaper and not as deadly compared to retail. Idk if that change invalidates the entire changelog, but sorry to hear this wasn't for you dude.
Let's see what happens though
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 2:34 am
by Oddnerd
Snipers in the unmodded games as far back as vanilla were toxic garbage that allowed you to bleed an enemy with no skill needed.
The only people who miss that are the ones probably got 3-4 of them and effortlessly bled enemy armies to death.
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 3:12 am
by Broodwich
i still go back to retail just to spam rangers into brightlance.. anti everything!!
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:16 am
by Paranoid Kamikaze
Snipers had their damage halved and firing rate doubled. They're less bullshit now so you can't use them as a crutch to troll like in retail.
Re: Rangers, like this mod, are trash
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:41 am
by Forestradio
Atlas wrote:I actually recognize you from the DoWIII forums
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 3:40 pm
by TripSin
Okay, sorry, I overreacted. I was really mad. But seriously, I don't think they needed to be nerfed so hard. I play as Eldar (Farseer). In retail, I would usually only get one if I needed to counter a setup team or for detection. I would get two when going against Eldar mirror, which yeah, is really strong. I don't play much elite, or at least haven't yet, and when I tried to go double snipers vs. another Eldar player they did diddly squat which led to me getting really upset about it. In the engagement they got at least 4 shots off on a banshee squad, 2 shots off on a shuriken platform, 1 kinetic pulse on a shuriken platform and between all of these shots NOT A SINGLE MODEL OF THEIRS WAS LOST LOL Then to add insult to injury they got wiped on retreat by the full strength shee squad they failed to take a single model off of (though I could've played around this by not retreating and manually running them in a different direction but why even waste effort trying to save them when they're so useless?)
Who actually uses snipers now and thinks they aren't trash?
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 3:45 pm
by Psycho
TripSin wrote:I play as Eldar
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 3:48 pm
by Deflaktor
TripSin wrote:Who actually uses snipers now and thinks they aren't trash?
They are not trash but not necessarily amazing either. They are a pure utility unit much like the Artillery Spotter Squad. That being said, they can be amazing in T3 to spot for your fire prism or your d-cannon.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 3:59 pm
by TripSin
I watched the replay again and it was actually 5 sniper shots on the banshee squad and they still didn't lose a model LOL
The two shots and a kinetic pulse on the enemy shuriken platform also had no model losses, only tickeled them, and barely disrupted them.
Also got a fair amount of sniper shots off on the warp spider enemy commander and he laughed off the pitiful damage just the same.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:17 pm
by boss
Rangers have been made cheaper to help with detection I don't no why people are saying their a utility unit now that always have been the only diffence is now that have more energy regen with their upgrade to help with this.
But I do agree their damage is just shit to say the least it getting a bit of a buff next patch hopefully then they will kill something at last, i wouldn't bother getting ranges till then.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:19 pm
by PianoMan
LOL idk how it works lOL
this is like complaining that scouts are UP because they can't melee down a transporter
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 5:41 pm
by Torpid
TripSin wrote:I watched the replay again and it was actually 5 sniper shots on the banshee squad and they still didn't lose a model LOL
The two shots and a kinetic pulse on the enemy shuriken platform also had no model losses, only tickeled them, and barely disrupted them.
Also got a fair amount of sniper shots off on the warp spider enemy commander and he laughed off the pitiful damage just the same.
Why the fuck should rangers counter avengers and banshees?
That was precisely the problem in retail. Why they were there in every MU. You can say what you want about only getting 1 to counter a set up team (SUT) but that isn't what happened in any high level 3v3, or vs SM/eldar where you'd always get 2 in 1v1. 35 req a pop at scouts. Ridiculous.
Counter t1 line units with SUTs... Your shuriken.
@Boss, the ranger is more of a utility unit now because it has lower CD on kinetic pulse, especially with the upgrade. We also changed the upgrade so that it gives energy regen which really helps te upgraded variant spam kinetic pulse, which also btw, does aoe damage with the upgrade.
In the late game the best thing about rangers was their huge sight range. That is no different. But now you have a cheap to field detector uni for dealing with pesky SM, KN, inquisitors and nids in general, that has more or less no bleed and no upkeep.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Thu 13 Jul, 2017 6:07 pm
by boss
Well Next patch when the da leader goes back to t2 rangers will need to come into their place or I feel eldar t1 well be very weak and very dependent on setup team spam dire avenger will give you steady dps, shes your melee control, Shurikens canons for control and rangers for utility which they already gave but now that have almost no damage for it.
I just get this strange feeling next patch we see 3 shurikens builds or just lose in t1 for eldar
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Fri 14 Jul, 2017 10:52 pm
by TripSin
Torpid wrote:TripSin wrote:I watched the replay again and it was actually 5 sniper shots on the banshee squad and they still didn't lose a model LOL
The two shots and a kinetic pulse on the enemy shuriken platform also had no model losses, only tickeled them, and barely disrupted them.
Also got a fair amount of sniper shots off on the warp spider enemy commander and he laughed off the pitiful damage just the same.
Why the fuck should rangers counter avengers and banshees?
That was precisely the problem in retail. Why they were there in every MU. You can say what you want about only getting 1 to counter a set up team (SUT) but that isn't what happened in any high level 3v3, or vs SM/eldar where you'd always get 2 in 1v1. 35 req a pop at scouts. Ridiculous.
Counter t1 line units with SUTs... Your shuriken.
@Boss, the ranger is more of a utility unit now because it has lower CD on kinetic pulse, especially with the upgrade. We also changed the upgrade so that it gives energy regen which really helps te upgraded variant spam kinetic pulse, which also btw, does aoe damage with the upgrade.
In the late game the best thing about rangers was their huge sight range. That is no different. But now you have a cheap to field detector uni for dealing with pesky SM, KN, inquisitors and nids in general, that has more or less no bleed and no upkeep.
lol are you one of the people who decides balance in this mod? I guess I was right initially, this mod IS trash.
If you think it's fine for two sniper units to get off a combined total of 8 shots and a kinetic pulse on enemy squishy eldar and have them lose not even a SINGLE modle....just LOL I don't even. I'm out. You guys have fun with your garbage mod.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Fri 14 Jul, 2017 11:29 pm
by Aguxyz
TripSin wrote:Torpid wrote:TripSin wrote:I watched the replay again and it was actually 5 sniper shots on the banshee squad and they still didn't lose a model LOL
The two shots and a kinetic pulse on the enemy shuriken platform also had no model losses, only tickeled them, and barely disrupted them.
Also got a fair amount of sniper shots off on the warp spider enemy commander and he laughed off the pitiful damage just the same.
Why the fuck should rangers counter avengers and banshees?
That was precisely the problem in retail. Why they were there in every MU. You can say what you want about only getting 1 to counter a set up team (SUT) but that isn't what happened in any high level 3v3, or vs SM/eldar where you'd always get 2 in 1v1. 35 req a pop at scouts. Ridiculous.
Counter t1 line units with SUTs... Your shuriken.
@Boss, the ranger is more of a utility unit now because it has lower CD on kinetic pulse, especially with the upgrade. We also changed the upgrade so that it gives energy regen which really helps te upgraded variant spam kinetic pulse, which also btw, does aoe damage with the upgrade.
In the late game the best thing about rangers was their huge sight range. That is no different. But now you have a cheap to field detector uni for dealing with pesky SM, KN, inquisitors and nids in general, that has more or less no bleed and no upkeep.
lol are you one of the people who decides balance in this mod? I guess I was right initially, this mod IS trash.
If you think it's fine for two sniper units to get off a combined total of 8 shots and a kinetic pulse on enemy squishy eldar and have them lose not even a SINGLE modle....just LOL I don't even. I'm out. You guys have fun with your garbage mod.
git gud
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2017 12:43 am
by Atlas
Let's not be totally silly here Torpid, Rangers should at least threaten line units a bit. It sounds more like a case where TripSin had just terrible luck with how his shots spread out and he should have gotten at least like 2 models there.
If his math is right, then the shots spread almost perfectly evenly on those squads. Yeah, that's just shit luck I think. Still, some Quality of Life(tm) could very well be warranted here, even if they aren't sniping models like they used to.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Sun 16 Jul, 2017 12:18 pm
by Dark Riku
TripSin wrote:If you think it's fine for two sniper units to get off a combined total of 8 shots and a kinetic pulse on enemy squishy eldar and have them lose not even a SINGLE modle....just LOL I don't even. I'm out. You guys have fun with your garbage mod.
Ok, thanks! Don't let the door hit you on your way out. Bye.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 4:54 am
by Black Relic
Ranger CC is amazing when used correctly. Eldar have amazing damage output so having only Rangers (even if its two) shooting at a Banshee squad is already wrong. Snipers do increased damage to commander type armor (if not then they should have a small increase like 5%). Rangers have the longest spotting range. Rangers can infiltrate an army with holofield. They can infiltrate themselves.
Oh and idk if you knew these but if those banshees had their exarch then the squad was taking 50% less range damage if fleet of foot was active and if they were in melee combat they take another range damage reduction. Hence why rangers should be shooting at shees in the first place (outside of disruption into a DA nade) but harm their back line.
Rangers are in between meh and ok imo. They could use some work but idk how to make them decent without them being cancerous. What i say would be a good change is Increase their damage (slightly) but also increased their set up time to 2 seconds. To make using them to get their burst damage of rewarding and dangerous. Also force rangers to be setup to use kinetic shot.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 3:50 pm
by crog
The main problem as an eldar player is that you are not allowed to waste 35 power on a unit which deals almost no DMG just for detection. This money is better spent on a shurikan or to upgrade 1banshee and 1 da for example.
Give them more dmg otherwise they are trash. There is a reason why they are hardly ever seen in games.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 4:23 pm
by Torpid
crog wrote:The main problem as an eldar player is that you are not allowed to waste 35 power on a unit which deals almost no DMG just for detection. This money is better spent on a shurikan or to upgrade 1banshee and 1 da for example.
Give them more dmg otherwise they are trash. There is a reason why they are hardly ever seen in games.
They're 20 power for a reason.
And they offer far more than detection with kb on demand at long range. The longest sight range of any unit in the game and the addition of an extra capping squad.
In every high level 1v1 with eldar that I play in atm I see them except vs non-IQ IG.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 4:53 pm
by boss
That's bs torpid you only time you see rangers in 1s is vs a knob or a lictor making them cheap and shiter does not make them good.
If you want map just get an other da unit and upgrade them with their battle equipment for a capping squad
High level eldar plays is get to t2 as fast as you can and get out useful stuff
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 5:12 pm
by Torpid
boss wrote:That's bs torpid you only time you see rangers in 1s is vs a knob or a lictor making them cheap and shiter does not make them good.
If you want map just get an other da unit and upgrade them with their battle equipment for a capping squad
High level eldar plays is get to t2 as fast as you can and get out useful stuff
That's just you Boss. You don't define high level play =P
Don't you recall KAFs eldar play? Adila's eldar play? What about Poly's vs my TM?
All go rangers. As do I myself.
Re: Rangers are trash why?
Posted: Wed 19 Jul, 2017 5:57 pm
by boss
K.A.F don't go ranges he think their trash as well hence why he goes nothing but setup team spam.
Adila does try rangers but he should just sick to setup teams and upgrades for his da and shes along with his skillock when he will win more.
Polymorph rangers did so much that game that great sight range help him out so much hence why he let them died cos that did so much for him......
Your the only one who think that ranges are great god knows why.