Project Balance: Tyranid section

[Tex]

Hey guys, a new chapter begins! I'm already 4-0 and the replays will come rolling in shortly.

I really need some community help on this one. I could potentially be out of touch with some of the issues people are having with nids. All I have been reading about lately is that gaunt/gant leaders... OP OP OP... etc.

***Anyway, feel free to drop something into this thread for me to investigate.***

I will again be using any manner of abuse I can find with an equal spread on all 3 heroes, trying to get to 30 wins with as few losses as possible.

Some of the things that are on my radar are:

-Nid globals, especially capillary towers and their ability to summon rippers.
-Carnifex variants
-gaunt/gant leaders
-LA feeder tendril
-LA deadly jump
-HT seismic roar
-weird and abusable RA things (theres a lot...)
-genestealers (cost vs performance)
-zoanthropes (cost vs performance)
-lictor sub commander
-Doom of malantai (can somebody tell me how to abuse this guy? I have never used it I dont think)

Links for games

Beta 6

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289581

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289582

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289583

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289584

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289699

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289700

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289701

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289702

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289780

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289783

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289781

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289782

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289784 (this one is fairly awesome)

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289785 (good comeback by noisy)

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=289786 (2x thornback rampage)

Beta 7 games were lost or w/e

Beta 8

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=290006

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=290053 (this is zoanthrope madness)

[ThongSong]

I don't particularly like how the LA's flesh hook can still kill a scout model even if they're in retreat. Even so much as getting a glimpse of the LA is pretty much guaranteed a model loss. If the damage could be toned down a bit on retreating units that would make me a bit happier.

also do Cap towers apply their synapse immediately? Seems a little bit OTT if you have say, something chasing a tank, and then BOOM, CAP TOWER SPEED BONUS, = dead tank. Would be nice if it took a few seconds for those things to spawn rather than instantly

[HandSome SoddiNg]

God that Ravenar"s range buff aura ,Ridiculously powerful with a Range tyranid blob, could disintegrate Low hp infantries & Literally rape Tanks on rear armour now that there's Venom broods + 2 Temaguants with brd ldrs with slight AV with crippling poison & Overall buff of Ravenar & Capillary towers

[Lag]

My first problem with the Tyranids is that their "soft" units which are supposed to bleed them and provide less and less staying power as the game progresses - get their shortfalls negated by first the Endless Swarm upgrade (the "buy one get one free" does make sense for GM as the are squishier than scouts, while Terma/Horma aren't, especially with Synapse). I remember playing the IG vs Tyranid faction war and realizing in the first game how useless Manti is against them because you can't properly bleed Tyranid by killing Terma/Hormas, and can't wipe squads because there is so many of them and you have to get very very lucky to get all the models after the initial Eagle strike spread. You also can't bleed models off of Warriors because they get have a lot of HP, and you can't bleed Raveners because they are so mobile. So what is left to bleed? Quick as hell Stealers? TG which has a shitload of HP? This goes for other arty-ish stuff as well. Stickbombaz can do shit, Plasma Devs and Blaster Marines just provide knockback and some minor bleed etc.

My second problem with the Tyranids is the functionality of the capillary towers. They are a blobby race and their power lies in that. They swarm like no other race, and have Synapse to really push this benefit to it's limits. The power of Eldar is mobility. Why give Tyranids Eldar mobility as well? They already have a shitload of staying power and mobility (Tyrant Pool, Ravener tunnels, Lictor once-click-reinforce), but this way if your blob enters an awkward engagement, you can just retreat and use the tower's speed boost to move back to the battle in no time, while with most other races mass retreating means at least losing your power, if not most of your ground.

My third problem with the Tyranids is that towers can spawn rippers. Make 4/5 of these (which can be reinforced and can retreat) and engage any army and it is fucked, especially the rangier ones like Eldar and IG. Not only that but it slows the fuck out of everything (vehicles most notably) and ties up setup teams, making them easy pickings for Tyranids powerful melee units. It is almost impossible to kill any of them on approach with most of the ranged stuff available to all of the factions. As soon as you get some advantage, try getting 3-4 squads of these and using them as the vanguard of your main push.


I understand the reasoning behind none of these implementations. I don't want to sound ungrateful or annoying, but just because something is doable doesn't mean it should be done.

[Torpid]

Endless swarm being too cheap and zoanthropes's focused blast doing too much damage for its pathetic cooldown are two blatant issues.

[Caeltos]

I understand the reasoning behind none of these implementations.

Surely you mean, that you don't understand the reasoning, because otheriwse as it stands. It's quite confusing.

[Lulgrim]

I understand the reasoning behind none of these implementations.

Surely you mean, that you don't understand the reasoning

The meaning is the same

[Caeltos]

The direct translation from english to swedish (my native language) goes like this;

- Jag förstår resonemanget bakom inga utav tilläggen

Which is just a complete mess, so it's more applicapable to probably throw the words around to make it more comprehensional.

- Jag förstår inga utav resonomangen bakom tillägen

I know what he means of course, but the just general message just didn't seem right.

Tyranid Pillars
If the Capillary Towers are giving Tyranids alot map prescence and agression/fast in/fast-out, and it's present, that's good. That's intentional and by design.

Rippers
I've never seen anyone build more then 1 Ripper. If you're commited to hoarding up like a good chunk of 30x pop for Rippers, you're probably just outplayed your opponent. They might be reinforceable, but they cost more then Hormagaunts to reinforce iirc anyway.

The only thing I'm primarily going to look at is probably the Venom Brood Leader/Hormagaunt Brood Leader just abit.

[Raffa]

Contrary to some belief, before I mained CL and PC, I've actually been a tyranid player for much of my time in this game and got back into them when I was last playing.

Firstly tho drop me a steam msg when ur around - I'll be around from Friday; we can get some games in and generally experiment if you want

My general thoughts RE your current list:
- Globals: Towers are fine. Summoning rippers is far more useful than spore mines IMO, but is overlooked because of player stupidity
- Carni varients seem fine to me
- Gaunt leaders are fine now they only give basic synapse
- LA tendrils are a must-buy because the lictor has so little sustainability/field presence otherwise
- Deadly Jump is fine.
- I am absolutely catefuckingorically against changing flesh hook.
- RA is the most abusable hero in the game bar none. My opinion is that on any map, played correctly, he is the best because tunnel placement + utility all game is so useful. I played a lot against holyhammer when he used RA (will check for replays, pretty sure one of him vs paranoid is up on dowreplaysnet) and it was literally like he had to make serious misplays for you to have a chance. This is partly skill discrepancy yes, but I did not get beaten 5/5 times against for example his warboss...however, I'm against changes to him because even fewer people will use him if he gets nerfed.
- gene adrenal rush should be reverted to what it was
- zoans are fine
- lictor subcommander is fine
- I do not think you can abuse Doom anymore: still if you want tips on using him lemme know

[Torpid]

Doom can still solo armies with all 3 of his abilities being used at once. The health drain thing has been way too strong for ages now, unless it was changed recently, haven't used DOM in a while...

[Lag]

The direct translation from english to swedish (my native language) goes like this;

- Jag förstår resonemanget bakom inga utav tilläggen

Which is just a complete mess, so it's more applicapable to probably throw the words around to make it more comprehensional.

- Jag förstår inga utav resonomangen bakom tillägen

I know what he means of course, but the just general message just didn't seem right.

What I wrote works quite well in English AFAIK. :)

Rippers
I've never seen anyone build more then 1 Ripper. If you're commited to hoarding up like a good chunk of 30x pop for Rippers, you're probably just outplayed your opponent. They might be reinforceable, but they cost more then Hormagaunts to reinforce iirc anyway.

Try it. As far as I remember, a few games (after the IG vs Nid FW) people were abusing it, but stopped because it became too ridiculous. Except for maybe Sonic Blaster, Baneblade, D-Cannon and maybe Wraithguard, these things just ignore ranged fire and enable the main army to close in without any bleed and do their full damage, while the opposing army is engaged with the unhittable vermin which is the Rippers. They are fine, they just shouldn't be producible in the towers which would eliminate them being spammed.

[PhatE]

Really hard matchup for Orks, definitely one of the harder ones for sure. The Kommando has the hardest trouble as in he can do very little to stop an aggressive Nid player.

You might say that you can just use the stun bomb but it doesn't work that way. They must be near perfect for him to be effective and with capillary towers being what they are right now make that even harder to actually land the stun bombs.

I've gone through before on my thoughts on the LA for balance and ways to stop flesh hook not only effecting this match up but also many others (which can be found here for those that may be interested viewtopic.php?f=3&t=296). But really this is probably the hardest hero that Orks have to face. Shoota nob is integral to provide both detection for your army and less bleed to what is essentially the backbone of the Ork army. Double sluggaz is just a cute build that you can have fun with but ultimately you end up putting yourself behind purely because toxin sacs are fucking awesome and continue to do damage after hormaguants/termagaunts/whatever the ranged ones are cast the ability. Mix that in with a barbed strangler and you are quickly outmatched. Massive bleed, no damage dealt to the opponent, lost map control and presence. It's almost as bad as plague champ bile spewer stopping them, literally 0 movement speed, in their already slow tracks. The radius is pretty generous as well so it's pretty hard to dodge. Burnas do help a lot, as in a dickload more since you can actually deal some semblance of damage when you're poisoned.

The Warboss is constantly removed from the equation thanks to this. But this is much more to do with his charge being dirt. Everything stops this ranging from shotgun blasts, passive leaps, crippling poison, getting caught on random pieces of cover as well as stomp (pre big stomp) being equally as bad considering that it takes ages and things just special attack him before he can finish. Why I bring him up is because he is comparatively speaking far worse than the Hive tyrant. The Tyranid army has way more synergy with each other than Orks ever will given that their melee unit AI is just way better as well as there being the huge benefit of synapse later on. You must be more cost effective than the other player in this matchup. The later the game gets you have to try more and more since capillary towers are just great.

Hive Tyrant charge mixed in with the roar just out does everything that Orks have. There's nothing really stopping the Hive tyrant at all unless you bait them into a point black loota burst. But it's not even that...HE NEVER STOPS CHARGING! Why can the Hive Tyrant do his ability whilst he charges and then keep on charging. I have a ton of games against Floid where he does this and he does it incredibly well. You may think that it won't really stop him from using roar when actually it is far more balanced if he stops in his tracks. All the knockback that he does allows for more units to come in and attack whatever he just hit pre roar.

If the flesh hook mechanic was changed so that the nob was untargetable (same with all detectors) then this would clean up the very annoying fleshhook. He doesn't even need to move the army he can flesh hook and have a barbed strangler just sitting there. Entire squad is suppressed and you didn't even move an inch. When half your ranged army is forced to retreat and you didn't even move I feel needs to be looked at.

This isn't me just going T_T (maybe a little) I'm just trying to share what I see quite regularly in this matchup. I don't think it's impossible by any means and happens to be my favourite matchup but it's pretty rough at times.

In response to the DoM question Tex the best way to 'abuse' him I suppose is run at the enemy and use leech essence and anything with 5-6 + models will just evaporate. Any chasing melee unit will just die (doesn't even have to be chasing). Add in the paroxysm ability on top and you have yourself a really nice open area filled exclusively with Tyranids.

I feel that the following are in a nice spot right now that's on your list

- genestealers (cost vs performance)
- zoanthropes (cost vs performance) [with ranged synapse and RA damage buff it gets pretty ridiculous]
- lictor sub commander

On their own they are in a nice spot, but when they're combined they can do some crazy ass damage. Tanks regardless of being left alone or not will die to a combination of zoan + gene or zoan + lictor. The range on that ability is massive and the Lictor does really strong amount of damage to tanks.

So yeah that's my 3 to 6th monthly rant

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Capillary Towers should have been a substitute of Warrior Brood, giving a swarm-like army composition with tons and tons of non-synapse creatures, instead of a global speed army buff. Well, at least Carnifex and Swarmlord aren't affected anymore by the speed buff.

A waste, IMHO. :/

There are some things to check, IMHO.
- Cost-effectiveness of Horma/Termagaunts with Warrior Brood and Endless Swarm
- Zoanthrope Health Regeneration aura it's crazy (even more if leveled)
- Lictor Alpha Fleshhook.
- Synapse in general.

[Lag]

Synapse in general isn't a problem. If you have Hormas and Termas, and they go to t2 and gain melee/ranged synapse - that's cool, it's logical progression, especially as every other faction's t1 units get upgrades which make them better in t2. But then I still don't get the Endless Swarm upgrade. I'd be okay if Endless Swarm negates synapse, but this way you make superunits out of the most basic units in the Tyranid army, plus they reinforce for super-cheap.
IMHO if their power lies in swarming, it shouldn't lie in speed as well (Eldar) nor in overwhelming numbers (IG).

[Dark Riku]

LA being able to provide reinforcing in T1 is questionable. Flesh hook is just bonkers.
It can keep the damage etc so you can still snipe models or pressure said model.
But they shouldn't fly across the map... A faceplant will do just fine. It will still provide the disruption. Just not the cheese it provides now, especially with immortal leaders.

Why does the zoa snare ability has such a low cooldown? Once the snare has wore of it can be use again already! Not to mention the quite high damage it does from potentially very far away. Not to mention all the other bonuses zoans give you.

The T3 leaders should not provide the squad with av. It's just ridiculous.

Doom is still tremendously OP. Use all 3 abilities to wipe any infantry based army or take away a ton of health from terminators or other super units like the GUO or Avatar while the rest of the swarm just mops up the leftovers.

There's nothing really stopping the Hive tyrant at all unless you bait them into a point black loota burst. But it's not even that...HE NEVER STOPS CHARGING!

The hive Tyrant can also stop charging due to terrain and sometimes even to many units being in the way.

[Ace of Swords]

-Endless Swarm is simply broken, no bleed for the nid army, it makes genestealers obsolete, not because they are bad, but because hormas with ES counter EVERYTHING, add in a mobile reinforce point and it's simply broken, there is no way to lose an engagment.

-Leaders make the above problem even worse, you can just get ES, ignore the rest of T2, and straight to t3 for uber AV and hormas that will never lose a single fight.

-Pheromone is a big problem, even without endless swarm, It's T1, cheap, offers a reinforcing point for a very long time and also debuffs the enemy army with a damage reduction.

-Towers shouldn't be able to spawn rippers, they effectively make devastators and wraithguards useless, and the tower themselves could still use an increased cost in red.

-Because of the first 2 points and army that reaches the swarmlord is not going to be beatable.

-Spore mines drop of the LA could use an increased cost in red, atleast 25 more red

-Brood nest could use a 50 red increase in cost, bunkers cost the same iirc, but they also require further investment to work, aswell they can be stolen.

-Acid splatter is too strong vs any 5+ men squads

-Doom is OP for reasons already stated in this and other thousands of threads, it's cost should match the SL.

[Raffa]

Ace buddy you are exaggerating a bit here.

-Endless Swarm is simply broken, no bleed for the nid army, it makes genestealers obsolete, not because they are bad, but because hormas with ES counter EVERYTHING, add in a mobile reinforce point and it's simply broken, there is no way to lose an engagment.

I agree occasionally in 3v3 a razorback/trukk is plain broken supporting nids. But this is 1v1 we talking about..."mobile reinforce point" means SL, which is a super unit and should make its army fricking hard to beat considering it does not have the tankiness of other super units.

-Leaders make the above problem even worse, you can just get ES, ignore the rest of T2, and straight to t3 for uber AV and hormas that will never lose a single fight.

Leaders only give basic synapse and a small (but significant yes) amount of av. They were op with ranged/melee synapse yes but now they are fine for me.

-Pheromone is a big problem, even without endless swarm, It's T1, cheap, offers a reinforcing point for a very long time and also debuffs the enemy army with a damage reduction.

You have a point here. Damage reduction needs to go.

-Because of the first 2 points and army that reaches the swarmlord is not going to be beatable.

Your overlooking how a serious, scaled Tyranid army should be pretty hard to beat when supported by its super unit: think what other races can field for equivalent cost. Ofc Endless Swarm is strong with a SL (as it should be), but it is not unbeatable and if it is then your opponent has probably outplayed you.

-Spore mines drop of the LA could use an increased cost in red, atleast 25 more red

125 red for something which is very situational come T2 and competes directly with Stalk (which every LA player should be using at every opportunity).

-Doom is OP for reasons already stated in this and other thousands of threads, it's cost should match the SL.

Again, I think you exaggerating a bit here.

Somehow I think you disagree...

[Lulgrim]

-Endless Swarm is simply broken

Should gaunts lose the T2/3 passive buffs and/or double reinforcement?

[Kvek]

-Leaders make the above problem even worse, you can just get ES, ignore the rest of T2, and straight to t3 for uber AV and hormas that will never lose a single fight.

Leaders only give basic synapse and a small (but significant yes) amount of av. They were op with ranged/melee synapse yes but now they are fine for me.

Riku killed my Chaos Dread with TWO terma broods with leaders, that's broken as fuck.

[Dark Riku]

Ace buddy you are exaggerating a bit here.

No he isn't.

But this is 1v1 we talking about..."mobile reinforce point" means SL, which is a super unit and should make its army fricking hard to beat considering it does not have the tankiness of other super units.

The SL only has a self heal...
Mobile reinforce points also include pheromones which are T1...
and brood nest which at least costs a small amount of red...
and tunnels can pretty much count in the matter here too.

-Doom is OP for reasons already stated in this and other thousands of threads, it's cost should match the SL.

Again, I think you exaggerating a bit here.

Somehow I think you disagree...

Doom is impossible to kill in a 1v1 while instantly massacring all your infantry.
Unless you foolishly let your Doom alone in front of your army to then get knocked back in retreat by a drop pod.
But then again balance isn't decided on mistakes.

[Ace of Swords]

-Endless Swarm is simply broken

Should gaunts lose the T2/3 passive buffs and/or double reinforcement?

The double reinforcement is the biggest problem, you can carelessy tank any kind of arty they throw at you, first because you'll barely lose models for the catachan effect, second because your bleed is basically nothing.

Ace of Swords wrote:-Doom is OP for reasons already stated in this and other thousands of threads, it's cost should match the SL.

Again, I think you exaggerating a bit here.

Somehow I think you disagree...

Show me a single unit that is able to change the game as much as the doom for that cost.

Pro tip, you can't, even at 1000/200 a BB isn't as much as a game changer like the doom, a 500/90 counter to super units, all infantry, setup teams and blobs.

There is no reason why it shouldn't be considered a super unit with the adjacent cost.

[Indrid]

As usual in threads like this people are exaggerating a bit for effect I think. The sky is falling, it's the Nids!

Lictor Alpha is very strong and his Flesh Hook is very annoying. He gets amazing melee weapons too. Could see the Hook getting a cooldown increase or range reduction. It's a bit too good at initiating engagements from long range I think.

I don't see a problem with Infestation Towers at the moment. If you spam them you are just feeding the enemy XP. I can't even remember the last time I saw someone purchase spore mines or rippers out of them.

Endless Swarm is good and should probably have a greater impact on upkeep and/or cost more req to purchase (to 75/10). The T3 Brood Leaders are strong and probably the most surprising Elite Mod addition I think, perhaps bump the cost to 100/30. They do drive up your pop and prevent more other nice T3 stuff so I don't think they are mental.

Zoanthrope; increase the production time. It's only 25s iirc! Can put pressure on multiple set-up team builds a bit too quickly before the other player can perhaps prepare, especially double Zoan plays. I understand it might be low because of Raptors/ASM and Warp Spider plays but 25s is really low. Focused Warp Blast (or whatever it is called) could do with a slight range reduction. I think the low cooldown is okay considering the extra energy pressure on the Zoan and its general fragility.

Doom of Malan'tai I think is okay-ish balance wise. I still see the majority of people going for Carnifex first as if the honeymoon period has worn off the DoM. Its abilities are strong in already hectic engagements where you can't necessarily move out of his AoE stuff as fast as you'd like, otherwise you should be able to avoid the worst of it. I think there are a few ways to balance it in general, could be one of them or a combination:

• Decrease the efficiency of the Doom's shield. At the moment when you jump something into it the Doom is able to put up shield and use Absorb Life to escape most of the time, especially in conjunction with Crippling Poison.
• Alternatively to the above, remove the shield altogether and buff the Doom's HP a bit (I seem to recall this was the original design?).
• Nerf the duration on Absorb Life.
• Increase general energy pressure; increase energy cost of abilities. Shouldn't be able to use Paroxysm and Cataclysm in a row IMO, getting KB into Paroxysm is very painful. Even if the Doom just does that and then needs to retreat it has done enough to be worthwhile. Should need to regain some energy first before using another ability.

So, in general I think there's not enough energy management pressure on the DoM at the moment. It doesn't regen but its energy-regaining abilities are strong and easy to use. Suggesting it should cost as much as the SL is a bit mad. 500/100 would be good.

[Asmon]

Every Ork hero has a simple way to stop HT's charge. KN and WB can stun him, MB just has to teleport under his bare jaws.

What I'd do first is reduce kb and damage in retreat of flesh hook, and remove power_melee from Feeder Tendrils.

[Bahamut]

-Endless Swarm is simply broken

Should gaunts lose the T2/3 passive buffs and/or double reinforcement?

what t2/3 passive buffs are you talking about?

for the endless swarm upgrade itself it should definitely increase the effective pop that the squad takes from 8 to 10. other than that i don't see any problem. If nids don't bleed from gaunts then Ig is a race that's totally inmune to bleed. what do ig bleed from? 10hp 6/8 models on catachans?

i agree totally with indrid. DoM energy mechanic is too easy to manage. and ace, weird boy has either as much or even more impact than a dom. not saying that the dom is not OP with this

[Raffa]

Nobody ever talks about buffs for Tyranids...partly out of habit because they used to be op in retail, but mostly because they are the least played race and an easy target to jump on the bandwagon.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that there may in fact be some areas where Tyranids are weaker than other races?? Oh noes!! I don't start threads about this cos nobody here will independently look at another race that has been a target for so long and say actually it may need some buffs.

Flesh Hook in particular has been attacked since the dawn of dawn of war. Case in point: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/in ... pic=798584 ...

Lictor deserves the intense melee pressure he can put on. As the only hero that gets no ranged attack at all, unless we're counting an ability with 60 second cooldown, he needs his melee weapons to be good. And he needs tendrils as they are because his survivability is utter bullcrap otherwise.

All I ever see is people wanting to hammer Tyranids - it's like we've got 20 Bigamos against nids here. For those of you who didn't know him, his arguments went something like this:

Bigamo: NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF THEMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. NERF NERF NERF NERF! NERF NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFF THEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

[Ace of Swords]

What I'd do first is reduce kb and damage in retreat of flesh hook, and remove power_melee from Feeder Tendrils.

I think power melee isn't the issue on them, it's the fact that they heal 2% of his HP, meaning he can get that T1 wep and be carried by it the whole game, if it had a fixed amount of HP regen like the sanguine chainsword I think it would be fine, as it would require the LA to swap later on, and the healing should be lowered sightly.

i agree totally with indrid. DoM energy mechanic is too easy to manage. and ace, weird boy has either as much or even more impact than a dom. not saying that the dom is not OP with this

laughingpeople.jpg, show me where the weirdboy can kill off an entire army, or where he is annihilating and avatar, guo or termies.

[Caeltos]

Nobody ever talks about buffs for Tyranids...partly out of habit because they used to be op in retail, but mostly because they are the least played race and an easy target to jump on the bandwagon.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that there may in fact be some areas where Tyranids are weaker than other races?? Oh noes!! I don't start threads about this cos nobody here will independently look at another race that has been a target for so long and say actually it may need some buffs.

Flesh Hook in particular has been attacked since the dawn of dawn of war. Case in point: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/in ... pic=798584 ...

Lictor deserves the intense melee pressure he can put on. As the only hero that gets no ranged attack at all, unless we're counting an ability with 60 second cooldown, he needs his melee weapons to be good. And he needs tendrils as they are because his survivability is utter bullcrap otherwise.

All I ever see is people wanting to hammer Tyranids - it's like we've got 20 Bigamos against nids here. For those of you who didn't know him, his arguments went something like this:

Bigamo: NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF THEMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. NERF NERF NERF NERF! NERF NERFFFFFFFFFFFFFF THEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!

No, because balance threads are always about what needs nerfing, and not what needs buffing.

[Orkfaeller]

Buff all the other races then, works for me ;P

[Indrid]

laughingpeople.jpg, show me where the weirdboy can kill off an entire army, or where he is annihilating and avatar, guo or termies.

An exaggeration. DoM can't kill off an "entire army" unless it is horribly blobbed and doesn't move for ~10s. In which case a lot of stuff will obliterate you.

It also doesn't annihilate GUO/Ava anywhere near as much as it did. Maestro recently did a cast featuring myself on Angel Gate, and although he cuts away just as the engagement starts (@28mins), my GUO tanks a DoM and proceeds to decimate an entire Tyranid army single-handed while my PC caps - and walks away fine. You can see all of Floid's units dropping off his roster.

[Ace of Swords]

What Im seeing there is a GUO dropping from 100% to 35-40% in 8 seconds after paroxysm is applied, how can you even defend that?

And no, your opponent doesn't need to be blobbed up, the AoE is so big on both paroxysm and drain life that all you have to do is walk in with your doom and tank all the damage.

And this without considering the rest of the army of the nid.