Dawn of War Codex

Was worried with the lack of changes for ig in upcoming patch, so here is list about things that should be fixed:

1) (Most important change, coz most bullshit thing atm) Catachans improvised explosives shouldn't give any additional sight, now it feels like free maphack (sight from mines should be removed completely).
2)Sent stomp stunning for 7 secs is too op (either decrease to 4-5 secs or increase cost for grade to 20 energy).
3)Add energy bar for spotters or increase cooldown on their abilities to prevent them from spamming them, andfor the love of God, decrease AOE on their mortar shell (atm too big spammable and basically batshit op).
4)Guardsmen feels a lil bit unbalanced in case of reinforcing speed (either decrease number of reinforced models for fully upgraded gurdsmen squads from 3 to 2, or increase time for reinforcing each model).
5)Playing vs LG in early game (and other stages of match tbh) is absolute nightmare, coz he can reinforce anyware for such low cost and this makes him even better tank than plag champ or hive tyrant (either increase reinforce cost for st models from 25 to 35/40 req or increase reinforce time of models when LG is in combat).
6)Leman drop should be changed just like banewolf drop (not sure why it didn't changed earlier).
7)Execution from first commie armor should be changed from 100% to 50% bonus coz currently in synergy with chimera 3 guardsman squads with plasma can out shot and outrepair anything, basically op bullshit.
8)Bane blade price increase to 900/180 atm too cheap and so easily recheable.
9)Either remove or increase cost on LG's Flak Jacket in combination with triple guardsmen build creates op blob of doom on t1.

Hmm.... by "make better faction" you mean nerf everything? Might want to be a bit more upfront about that kind of thing.

Don't really feel up to long essays right now, but here's my two cents.

1 - On one hand, I agree that the vision could potentially be a bit much, but they also need it to see when a unit is walking over the explosive. If they didn't have it, they'd only be usable when you had other units spotting over them, which usually defeats the purpose of putting them down.

2 - Sent stomp is in a relatively small area, highly broadcasted, risky for the Sentinel itself, and is pivotal in defending against melee for IG early on. Yes, it is strong, but justifiably so in my eyes.

3 - No opinion.

4 - I disagree. The whole point of Guardsmen is that they reinforce quickly, cheaply, and in mass numbers in the late game. If you're trying to muscle your way through a reinforcing IG blob, you're usually doing it wrong unless you're packing a whole lot of aoe.

5 - No strong opinion on this one either. Never felt LG was *that* scary, but I don't know how others feel about him.

6 - ...Why? The Leman Drop and the Banewolf Drop serve two incredibly different purposes. It's not just getting a vehicle on the field. Not only would that cut down on the individuality of heroes, but there doesn't seem to be much effort put into explaining why it's needed. I get it, strong global and all that, but why remove it entirely?

7 - Disagree. Execution is dangerous as it doesn't allow units to retreat. It is a seriously strong buff, but it can be played around through repositioning or focus fire usually.

8 - Disagree. The point of the Baneblade being at its current cost was because of how much it underperformed back when it was super expensive. Its stats were also nerfed a bit since then (I think), so giving it a massive price hitch is excessive.

9 - Again with the removing stuff? If you don't like playing against something, or think it is too good, that doesn't mean it should be cut from the game entirely. That's not how balance works.

Sounds like someone has been having some trouble vs IG lately.

viewforum.php?f=11

You are not giving any reasons for all these, quite frankly, ludicrous changes.
I'm also not going to go in depth on all of them for that reason. Since in short, they are all fine.

The only thing that might warrant a change on your list is the IED vision range.
But removing it is just not going to happen for reasons already mentioned.
reducing it slightly however might not be such a bad change. Because the vision range it gives is quite big and I believe unintentionally doing more than envisioned. It basically also functions somewhat like a LoL ward or the farsight global, without spotting infiltrators. It kind of functions as a spy tool. I believe it can still do the "intended" job, blowing shit up, with a slightly lower sight radius.

Improvised explosives should function like demos in coh 2 no sight provided so you need to spot units stepping on it overwise no skill ability.
About execution i mentioned: "coz currently in synergy with chimera 3 guardsman squads with plasma can out shot and outrepair anything, basically op bullshit", about this argument:"Execution is dangerous as it doesn't allow units to retreat. It is a seriously strong buff, but it can be played around through repositioning or focus fire usually". just rofl you can always jump in chimera and escape all threats on top of that you reinforce 3 guardsmen models at a time totally not op. And you can't avoid that blob coz of chimera so you push or you dead. Cheap and fast guardsmen reinforcement creates situation there you just can't deal any economical loss to ig player stupid as it is, game should promote skill micro, not stupid blob with reinforcement point that can beat anything. Never heard that baneblade underperfoming, cheap heavy tank that can withstand highest amount dmg in the game. If you never felt in trouble vs LG then you never played vs any decent lg player. ATM ig just shitty blobby no skill faction. Never seen any ig player winning by good micro and unit preservations just blobing and outbleeding opponent, nice skillfull faction totally fair balance wise, especially vs nids.

IEDs are massively underused as it is nevermind with them providing no sight lmao. They'd be literally never used.

Wanderer wrote:Improvised explosives should function like demos in coh 2 no sight provided so you need to spot units stepping on it overwise no skill ability.

While similar, DoW II and CoH are different games with different fundamental designs behind how their units function.

Wanderer wrote:About execution i mentioned: "coz currently in synergy with chimera 3 guardsman squads with plasma can out shot and outrepair anything, basically op bullshit"

-Artillery
-High amounts of AoE damage
-Spreading out and capping the rest of the map since his forces are all blobbed together

Here's three suggestions for dealing with that force.

Wanderer wrote:, about this argument:"Execution is dangerous as it doesn't allow units to retreat. It is a seriously strong buff, but it can be played around through repositioning or focus fire usually". just rofl you can always jump in chimera and escape all threats on top of that you reinforce 3 guardsmen models at a time totally not op. And you can't avoid that blob coz of chimera so you push or you dead.

Yes you can. If his force is too strong, you spread out and make him split up or cede map control. Since IG squads are much weaker in 1v1 fights, that gives you the advantage. If he stays blobbed up, you get map control and punish his economy. As for getting in the Chimera, you can literally do the same thing with every transport in the game. That's the point of transports. IG have more synergy thanks to their triple reinforcement rate and the multi-las turrets mounted on the Chimera, but it's not like you're helpless.

Wanderer wrote:Cheap and fast guardsmen reinforcement creates situation there you just can't deal any economical loss to ig player stupid as it is, game should promote skill micro, not stupid blob with reinforcement point that can beat anything.

You are not supposed to stand and shoot an IG blob straight up. That is their strongest point, and the strength of their race. This game DOES promote skilled micro, as I stated above, as IG squads are much worse individually, making them bad at countering mobile independent squads. Failing that, artillery, artillery, artillery. Drop a snare on the Chimera, and you're in business.

Wanderer wrote: Never heard that baneblade underperfoming,

Then you haven't been listening, as people have been saying for ages that it just wasn't worth getting it, period, as 2x Leman Russ was objectively superior for the cost in almost all cases.

Wanderer wrote:cheap heavy tank that can withstand highest amount dmg in the game.

...Cheap? Cheap for a super-unit maybe, but it's still quite expensive, and when you compare it to other super units, it's not nearly as terrifying as you're making it sound. Keep in mind that it is a slow, fairly one-dimensional, armored tank with some of the most nightmarish pathing in the game thanks to its size.

Wanderer wrote:If you never felt in trouble vs LG then you never played vs any decent lg player.

I have actually, and I can tell you that a skilled Inquisitor player is far and wide more frightening to me than a skilled LG player.

Wanderer wrote:ATM ig just shitty blobby no skill faction. Never seen any ig player winning by good micro and unit preservations just blobing and outbleeding opponent, nice skillfull faction totally fair balance wise,

I see you've stepped down into ranting rather than trying to give arguments. My suggestion is to step away for a bit to cool down. If you still have trouble with IG, head down to the strategy thread. They're not nearly as powerful or as 1-A as you seem to think they are.

Wanderer wrote: especially vs nids.

Every faction has strong and weak matchups. That's inevitable in a game with six factions, each with three commanders, and asymmetrical balance.

Torpid wrote:IEDs are massively underused as it is nevermind with them providing no sight lmao. They'd be literally never used.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes, because wiping shit on retreat, limiting map control and free sight on the map is really useless. Did I mention that they now get all their upgrades free with the initial purchase?
IEDs never used? Quite the contrary. Any decent - good IG player will spam them all over the fucking joint. If you are talking about underused, you might want to look at the smoke grenade. I am not saying it's bad (which it really isn't) just that many people seem to forget what it really does.

On the topic:
1 - I partly agree on that but it should be a slight decrease only if at all (will have to see for myself some more before definitive answer)
2 - The OP part about the Sentinel stomp is not the duration but the range. The change was not needed and is getting reverted in 2.8
3 - Energy bar for spotters is actually a good idea because it allows for attack-openings if you are observant of your enemies units. Why not get rewarded for that?
4 - That is actually a core mechanic of that faction. Try to fight them with lots of aoe and reap the rewards. You are not meant to win extended ranged fights against reinforcing Guardsmen. It is economical suicide.
5 - If your faction of choice has jump troops, try them. He is known to have trouble dealing with them.
6 - Might be worth talking about. But there aren't lots of issues with that atm.
7 - Your best counter-play is to move back or punish him very hard for the execution (if you can). Why? A executed squad can not retreat for 10 seconds. Execution at the wrong time means death for the entire squad.
8 - Baneblade is indeed underpriced and is already getting price increases in 2.8
9 - See my explanation for #4, the same holds true here. While the dmg taken is decreased it only affects ranged dmg. Again, melee might be an option. AOE weaponry or abilities are still very effective vs that blob. ESPECIALLY if he blobs.

I always toughed those explosives giving you really big sight range was a bit odd. Maybe we should decrease it down like 50%. But in the other hand, it should have sight range since it is detonated manual.

Rest of the list can go to thrash can.

Torpid wrote:IEDs are massively underused as it is nevermind with them providing no sight lmao. They'd be literally never used.

I understand your point torpid, you wanna ig be batshit op coz you like roflstomp opponents but the thing is atm this faction has no weakneses in case of player micromanagement, you can basically control guardsmen squads with your feet and still shit on eldar nids and orks. This faction is just for noobs bcz of this stupid bleed mechanics, what i'm asking for is just toning it's oppnes a lil bit down. Ig won't die if you decrease number of reinforced models OR reinforcing speed. So if you feel that guardsmen woujld become useless after change of number of reinforced models (lol) just decrease guardsmen reinforce speed while they are in combat from 2 secs to 5/8 secs. Currently this squad is most op in the game costeffective wise.

Kvn wrote:-Artillery
-High amounts of AoE damage
-Spreading out and capping the rest of the map since his forces are all blobbed together

Artillery and high amounts of aoe dmg won't do shit coz he has chimera, spreading to the rest of map too coz he has chimera.

Kvn wrote:Yes you can. If his force is too strong, you spread out and make him split up or cede map control. Since IG squads are much weaker in 1v1 fights, that gives you the advantage. If he stays blobbed up, you get map control and punish his economy. As for getting in the Chimera, you can literally do the same thing with every transport in the game. That's the point of transports. IG have more synergy thanks to their triple reinforcement rate and the multi-las turrets mounted on the Chimera, but it's not like you're helpless.

NO ig player will send his guardsmen squad alone it will come in huge numbers and will roflstomp you

Kvn wrote:You are not supposed to stand and shoot an IG blob straight up. That is their strongest point, and the strength of their race. This game DOES promote skilled micro, as I stated above, as IG squads are much worse individually, making them bad at countering mobile independent squads. Failing that, artillery, artillery, artillery. Drop a snare on the Chimera, and you're in business.

Snare won't do shit coz of LC's flare at first and catachan support at second.

Kvn wrote:Then you haven't been listening, as people have been saying for ages that it just wasn't worth getting it, period, as 2x Leman Russ was objectively superior for the cost in almost all cases.

Watch this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAH7XDGHgJQ, ig players destroyed eldar player using their underperforming baneblades. And btw in this game kung fu was roflstomped by "balanced" LG.

Kvn wrote:I see you've stepped down into ranting rather than trying to give arguments. My suggestion is to step away for a bit to cool down. If you still have trouble with IG, head down to the strategy thread. They're not nearly as powerful or as 1-A as you seem to think they are.

LOL WAT??? Man just watch Torpid playing IG:https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/log/11743923 , https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31302792, https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31231023 https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31222072 https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31128317 He roflstomped anyone with his IG and yet still IG such weak faction. Either Torpid is absolutely best player out there and noone come even close to his level or ig a lil bit op.

Wanderer wrote:Every faction has strong and weak matchups. That's inevitable in a game with six factions, each with three commanders, and asymmetrical balance.

Elite "Balanced" mod 5 years of developing and still cannot fix basic and most obvious balance problem, well i guess not so elite and so balanced mod afterall.

Wanderer wrote:well i guess not so elite and so balanced mod afterall.

Or you just suck, man.

Wanderer wrote:Artillery and high amounts of aoe dmg won't do shit coz he has chimera, spreading to the rest of map too coz he has chimera.

Artillery and AoE do wonders as he's blobbed around the Chimera making him a predictable and easy target. He has to choose between repairing and keeping his infantry safe when you're shelling his position. One fun trick you can do as Plague Champ is hold fire with your Lascannon until he commits to the fight, target his Chimera, and drop a Cloud on his troops when he stops to repair. He can't move away thanks to snare, and has to choose between taking atrocious losses (potentially even wiping squads) to the cloud, or losing his Chim to the Lascannon. It can be exceedingly brutal when done correctly.

As for spreading out, if he's piling into the Chimera, his entire army is in one place. Yours can be in more than one. Hence the point in spreading out.

Wanderer wrote:NO ig player will send his guardsmen squad alone it will come in huge numbers and will roflstomp you

Is he sending his Guardsmen alone, or is he coming in huge numbers? It can only be one or the other. If he's blobbing up, you get to cap the rest of the map while he fights for a single point. He can't leave his units behind, so he either has to stay and cap that one point while you get 3-5 others, or he has to abandon it. Either way, your economy ends up in the stronger position.

Fun fact, individually, Guardsmen lose to most other starting ranged squads with equivocal upgrades. Tacs, CSM, Strike Squads, and Dire Avengers beat Guardsmen 1v1 in both ranged and melee combat. Shootas will beat them at ranged (not sure about melee). The only squads they outshoot on their own is Termagaunts. The strength of Guardsmen comes from having multiple squads supported by other troops/vehicles and hero buffs. Spreading out forces them out of their comfort zone and into places where you have the advantage.

Wanderer wrote:Snare won't do shit coz of LC's flare at first and catachan support at second.

How about you tell me what faction/hero you main, and I'll give you some suggestions on how to play around a typical IG setup?

Wanderer wrote:Watch this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAH7XDGHgJQ, ig players destroyed eldar player using their underperforming baneblades. And btw in this game kung fu was roflstomped by "balanced" LG.

How about this one then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghM6k-Sl0DM&t=1076s

In it, you get to see Eldar destroy mass Baneblades and if you pay close attention, you can even see a pair of Wraithguard completely wreck the "unbeatable" mass Guardsmen/Chimera setup around the 13:30 mark.

More seriously, you should never try to quote faction wars for balance purposes. Faction Wars are abysmal for that. If you were to go by their stats, Eldar would have something like a ~15% win-rate. They don't. Those massive games emphasize things like tankiness, staying power, and field presence, while deemphasizing mobility, combos, and other such things. 1v1 is, and likely always will be, the golden standard for balance purposes.

Wanderer wrote:LOL WAT??? Man just watch Torpid playing IG:https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/log/11743923 , https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31302792, https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31231023 https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31222072 https://www.dawnofwar.info/esl/match/31128317 He roflstomped anyone with his IG and yet still IG such weak faction. Either Torpid is absolutely best player out there and noone come even close to his level or ig a lil bit op.

Firstly, nobody said IG was a weak faction. Secondly, yes. Torpid is an exceedingly good player. He's a pro, and has been for a very long time. The fact that you're trying to write someone like him off based purely on the fact that he wins with a faction you don't like is just ridiculous.

Wanderer wrote:Elite "Balanced" mod 5 years of developing and still cannot fix basic and most obvious balance problem, well i guess not so elite and so balanced mod afterall.

Hey, you know the best way to get someone to do what you want? Insult them! That'll show them you know what you're talking about!

More seriously, did you ever stop to wonder why Starcraft is still receiving balance changes? Why would a game with a triple A studio behind it and only three factions need something like that? It's because perfect balance doesn't exist. There is no 100% fix where every matchup is going to be even throughout the entire game. Dawn of War II has an immense number of matchups that can be played in incredibly different ways thanks to different heroes and wargear options. It physically isn't possible to get everyone that ideal 50/50 win-rate in all matchups, but the Elite community has done an exceptional job in getting close to it.

Here's a thought, and hear me out before you recoil in horror at the idea. Try playing IG for a bit. Not in order to "abuse a broken race" or whatever you might think IG players are doing, but to learn how the race functions. Everything you've posted thus far sounds like someone who knows very little about the faction's inner workings.

Back in the day when this game first came out and I was just a wee little nub playing for the first time, I used to despise Space Marines. Specifically, the Force Commander. It was a hellish matchup. To me, it seemed like they had everything I had, but better. Shotgun Scouts would always be in the perfect place to shut down my Banshees. My Dire Avengers (or rather Guardians, as they were at the time) did so little damage to SM heavy armor that it felt like they were shooting healing bullets at times. No matter what hero I played, they all seemed to get shut down by the SM commander. Once T2 rolled around, it was pretty much game as the tele-hammer or tele-fist commander would wreck my entire army almost single-handedly. Needless to say, it was frustrating.

I could have gone on the forums to demand nerfs to SM, but I didn't. Instead, I tried playing SM for a bit, and payed attention to how others played against me. I realized that for so long I'd been playing to the enemys' strengths instead of my own. I got a better idea of their shortcomings, and how to judge what squads could handle which fights, and how to predict who needed to be where and when. I still am not a fan of fighting the Force Commander, but nowadays, I've become a lot more comfortable with the matchup, and have a fairly good win record to back it up.

The point being, not everything is rooted in balance. You need to make sure you understand the nuance of what you're fighting against before you can claim it's overpowered. If you just look from the outside-in, all you're going to see is what you want to see.

Anyway. This went much longer than I'd planned. Take it or leave it, but if you want to blow off more steam, kindly go elsewhere to do so. This is a balance forum, not a soap box. The massive, sweeping nerfs to the entire IG roster than you're asking for simply aren't going to happen.

What are these crazy ass threads all about!? IG are fine, just need some thinking about.

Yes, I am an IG player surprise surprise.

But I have to agree with Tharx, the points mentioned can all be issues BUT I still frequently lose from poor choices, bad map positioning, executing squads at the wrong time and them getting owned the list goes on.

Quite simply when playing players of similar skill I lose as much as i win. Sometimes i do better because my playstyle frustrates some ppl ( ) but others whoop my ass!

Wanderer don't just ask for something to be nerfed because you can't deal with it OR the IG players beating you with it are simply better than you.

Wanderer wrote:

Torpid wrote:IEDs are massively underused as it is nevermind with them providing no sight lmao. They'd be literally never used.

I understand your point torpid, you wanna ig be batshit op coz you like roflstomp opponents but the thing is atm this faction has no weakneses in case of player micromanagement, you can basically control guardsmen squads with your feet and still shit on eldar nids and orks. This faction is just for noobs bcz of this stupid bleed mechanics, what i'm asking for is just toning it's oppnes a lil bit down. Ig won't die if you decrease number of reinforced models OR reinforcing speed. So if you feel that guardsmen woujld become useless after change of number of reinforced models (lol) just decrease guardsmen reinforce speed while they are in combat from 2 secs to 5/8 secs. Currently this squad is most op in the game costeffective wise.

If you wanna talk real talk and not non-substantive rhetoric I'll say this:
I would support a reduction in the IEDs sight range. Not a removal, but a reduction.
I would also support a minor upkeep nerf to guardsmen to bring a nice balance between their relative useless past t1 in retail beyond repair and their insane cost efficiency in elite. Probably just make sarge/commy 2 pop instead of 1.

Other than that not really sure what else would need nerfs. If anything catachans are still pretty miserable in melee. Baneblade I dunno about as I haven't played a lot with it due to mostly playing in 1v1 and stomping people before that point

But on the baneblade it's just ridiculous some people are now saying "it was so good before, why did it get cheaper"? But at the end of the day I made that change specifically because everyone was compaining that they could never ever get a baneblade out even in 3v3 nevermind 1v1, because 2 lemans was always a better choice - more mobility, similar firepower, not putting all eggs in one basket. And remember I nerfed the cannon and ability damage when I made it cheaper. It's like it was just a straight buff. It was a berf.

I'm really not sure people know what they want themselves! So often I do a change because the vocal majority want it then in 3months time they have changed their mind and seemingly forgotten that what they are complaining about is exactly what they requested to change!

Sorry for this Elf boy but if you guys want to moan about BaneBlade watch the game me as SM vs IG Stoned_Elf, now Stoned is a great IG player but I stomped 2 BB and IED's. Then tell me they're OP.

The one thing I'd like for the baneblade is to see if disabling its demolisher cannon as a weapon (IE not the ability) would keep it from wanting to face whatever it's trying to shoot, so that its hull keeps pointed at wherever you left it. If I can guess right, the game treats the demolisher cannon as an actual primary weapon like the Mega Battle Cannon, so with how it's built into the tank rather than mounted on a turret, the game makes the baneblade think it wants to keep the demolisher cannon pointed like it'd fire at the target. This leads to awful shenanigans like the baneblade deciding to show its EYUEG FUCKING REAR to AV shooting at it because it decided to shoot some guys at the other end of its range.

Kvn wrote:Artillery and AoE do wonders as he's blobbed around the Chimera making him a predictable and easy target. He has to choose between repairing and keeping his infantry safe when you're shelling his position. One fun trick you can do as Plague Champ is hold fire with your Lascannon until he commits to the fight, target his Chimera, and drop a Cloud on his troops when he stops to repair. He can't move away thanks to snare, and has to choose between taking atrocious losses (potentially even wiping squads) to the cloud, or losing his Chim to the Lascannon. It can be exceedingly brutal when done correctly.

No artillery and aoe doesn't do wonders bcz ig simply jujmps in chimera and quikly repositions in safe place. You can't snipe chimera like that bcz of spotters that will disable your lascanon or catas that can disable lasscanon to plagues usually ties up in melle to prevent them from shooting, on top of that LC can just drops flare and disable lascanon and plagues without catas and spotters.

Kvn wrote:Is he sending his Guardsmen alone, or is he coming in huge numbers? It can only be one or the other. If he's blobbing up, you get to cap the rest of the map while he fights for a single point. He can't leave his units behind, so he either has to stay and cap that one point while you get 3-5 others, or he has to abandon it. Either way, your economy ends up in the stronger position.

yeah spread out he will just move in chimera around map and snipe your squads one by one.

Kvn wrote:How about you tell me what faction/hero you main, and I'll give you some suggestions on how to play around a typical IG setup?

I main IG usually play LG and sometimes LC/Inq, I'm asking for tuning down several obviously op things bcz games with ig in mid lvl is just too easy especially vs nids.

Kvn wrote:How about this one then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghM6k-Sl0DM&t=1076s

Funny that you decided to choose this game fun fact is that commie player Phiracs guy played like utter shit and still managed to contest vp point untill last second even after loss of two fully upgraded guardmen squads. Man that embarrasing this commie player absolute crap he can't micro he doesn't know what units buy and STILL manages to put fight, if this isn't definition of faction opnes then i don't know what it is watch this phiracs guy in other matches of this faction war series he plays like shit in every match and still bcz of noob/promising to mistakes nature of ig he keeps surviving vs adila. Man that balance is just embarassing. Rewarding not good micro but using op faction.

Kvn wrote:Try playing IG for a bit. Not in order to "abuse a broken race" or whatever you might think IG players are doing, but to learn how the race functions. Everything you've posted thus far sounds like someone who knows very little about the faction's inner workings.

Tell you again I main ig and demand for tuning down obviously broken batshit op things

Wanderer wrote: No artillery and aoe doesn't do wonders bcz ig simply jujmps in chimera and quikly repositions in safe place. You can't snipe chimera like that bcz of spotters that will disable your lascanon or catas that can disable lasscanon to plagues usually ties up in melle to prevent them from shooting, on top of that LC can just drops flare and disable lascanon and plagues without catas and spotters.

Might I ask what the rest of your army is doing while the IG is using everything to counter your lascannon? You seem to be convinced that multi-tasking so many different things is something that the IG will pull off perfectly every time, which is ironic since you also seem to believe that IG players are completely without skill.

Wanderer wrote:yeah spread out he will just move in chimera around map and snipe your squads one by one.

You have this wonderful thing called the X button that will send your troops back to base with a massive ranged damage resist. It's very good for running away when being shot at, and while the IG player is sending his entire army to chase down single squads, you cap the rest of the map. He can't be everywhere at once with the playstyle you're suggesting. Chimera or no Chimera.

Wanderer wrote:I main IG usually play LG and sometimes LC/Inq,

Given that you have repeatedly misunderstood the fundamental design of the IG race, and seem to hold an intense loathing and contempt for IG players to the point where they can do no right, I highly doubt this. However, assuming it is true...

Wanderer wrote:I'm asking for tuning down several obviously op things bcz games with ig in mid lvl is just too easy especially vs nids.

There's an easy solution for this. Play at a higher level. Not only will that solve your whole "too easy" problem without the need to bludgeon the entire race into the ground, it will let you see first hand why your views are mistaken as you'll be up against people who know how to fight against IG.

Wanderer wrote:Funny that you decided to choose this game fun fact is that commie player Phiracs guy played like utter shit and still managed to contest vp point untill last second even after loss of two fully upgraded guardmen squads. Man that embarrasing this commie player absolute crap he can't micro he doesn't know what units buy and STILL manages to put fight, if this isn't definition of faction opnes then i don't know what it is watch this phiracs guy in other matches of this faction war series he plays like shit in every match and still bcz of noob/promising to mistakes nature of ig he keeps surviving vs adila. Man that balance is just embarassing. Rewarding not good micro but using op faction.

Funny. That's a lot of hate from someone who can't seem to grasp the way his supposed main works. I take it you've never lost a squad then?

How about this. You provide a replay of you crushing a pro-level player with Imperial Guard. Given how broken you seem to think IG is, it should be easy. Any difference in skill will be overwritten by the clearly broken race advantage. Go ahead. I'll be waiting to see how successful you are.

Wanderer wrote:Tell you again I main ig and demand for tuning down obviously broken batshit op things

See above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect

(Inspired by you, Toil).

Swiftsabre wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

(Inspired by you, Toil).

<3

I kinda miss GR for this reason though, back then people regularly posted replays (of their own games [also, replays not casts]) while complaining about a thing, so community could rip them apart for all the mistakes they made. Being on the receiving end of that was an enlightening experience.

Kvn wrote:Might I ask what the rest of your army is doing while the IG is using everything to counter your lascannon? You seem to be convinced that multi-tasking so many different things is something that the IG will pull off perfectly every time, which is ironic since you also seem to believe that IG players are completely without skill.

If it comes to me i never use entire army to counter lascanon, i just either drop fare or use "balanced" spotters.

Kvn wrote:You have this wonderful thing called the X button that will send your troops back to base with a massive ranged damage resist. It's very good for running away when being shot at, and while the IG player is sending his entire army to chase down single squads, you cap the rest of the map. He can't be everywhere at once with the playstyle you're suggesting. Chimera or no Chimera.

IG player on chimera will never chase down your squads, you retreating from chimera ig player simply caps map. That's all.

Kvn wrote:Given that you have repeatedly misunderstood the fundamental design of the IG race, and seem to hold an intense loathing and contempt for IG players to the point where they can do no right, I highly doubt this. However, assuming it is true...

I'm no ig hater just don't like when faction opness carries shit players. Like absolutely bad player with no micro and in game knowledge abuses op facction and win games (that's what happened in last faction wars series).

Kvn wrote:There's an easy solution for this. Play at a higher level. Not only will that solve your whole "too easy" problem without the need to bludgeon the entire race into the ground, it will let you see first hand why your views are mistaken as you'll be up against people who know how to fight against IG.

That already was done by torpid he successfully destroys anyone with ig. Nothing to proof here true nature of this faction was already exposed.

Kvn wrote:Funny. That's a lot of hate from someone who can't seem to grasp the way his supposed main works. I take it you've never lost a squad then?

How about this. You provide a replay of you crushing a pro-level player with Imperial Guard. Given how broken you seem to think IG is, it should be easy. Any difference in skill will be overwritten by the clearly broken race advantage. Go ahead. I'll be waiting to see how successful you are.

You know what i wanna see? You take nids or orks and defeat highest lvl ig player. But i guess you won't do this coz judging on your posts i see lack of in game knowledge especially whe it comes to arguing about ig opness, lol claiming that broken faction being fine is funniest thing i ever read, go ahead i wanna see how you will deal with top ig player with nids or greenskins.

Wanderer wrote:That solution would take some effort from me to put in this dead game pointless i'd say. And btw watch torpid's ig matches he fought vs players who knows how to fight vs ig and still shitted on them with how so?

Ok, you got me, I'm triggered.

If the game is dead, and thus pointless, why make this post? This is a complete contradiction, because you act like you don't care, and then you wax lyrical about all the ways things are unfair.

It's no surprise that Torpid is so good with IG, because he mains them and is possibly the best 1v1 player at the moment, and was consistently top of the ladder because he practices, develops strategies and analyses matchups and playstyles. I'm not throwing shade at anyone here, but Torpid puts a lot more energy into his approach to 1v1 than most out there, so it's no surprise he's good. This reminds me of the fallacy with the faction wars where the better players often played SM and youtube comments were aflame with SM OP, despite the respective lineups.

Wanderer wrote:You know what i wanna see? You take nids or orks and defeat highest lvl ig player. But i guess you won't do this coz judging on your posts i see lack of in game knowledge especially whe it comes to arguing about ig opness, lol claiming that broken faction being fine is funniest thing i ever read, go ahead i wanna see how you will deal with top ig player with nids or greenskins.

This is the more pertinent point that I want to address. So far, and I think tbh, stupidly, people have given you a lot of leeway regarding this topic. You've come in very brazenly with your demands, without evidence to support them, and when told multiple times that this is a learn to play issue (with help) you have called out the individuals with baseless claims.

If you want to alienate yourself entirely, you're on the right track. If you want to push this agenda, you're doing it wrong. if you have a point, be prepared to have evidence, be prepared to explore contingencies and do not decide that because someone disagrees that they're wrong. When a room of people are telling you you're wrong, the chances are, there might be a grain of truth in it. I highly recommend you read the Dunning-Kruger effect article I linked, because it would really illustrate the problem here.

So, to finish up: I don't expect you to agree with me, or anyone. I'm not looking to appease you or help you, I am here to simply say that you have been welcomed with good graces, and you have been consistently inflammatory. Your single mindedness about the issue is one thing, but it's not offensive. It's how you treat the people that are wasting their time on this dead end thread.

And if you want to be smart about things, go ahead. You'll quickly find yourself very unwelcome.

I was going to type out yet another lengthy response, but there's just no point by now. I've said my portion, and you've pretty much blocked your ears on all fronts. I'll just leave with this one last remark.

You are the one demanding change, therefore you are the one who needs to prove that things need change.

No. The "broken" nature of IG is not self-evident.

No. Pointing at top level IG players and saying "these guys actually suck, they only win because they play IG!" is not proof.

If you can't be bothered to gather evidence to back your viewpoint, nobody else can be bothered to take you seriously. That is all.

Wanderer wrote:That already was done by torpid

Do it yourself you lazy bum

Just because Torpid beats people with IG is about as good a claim to say IG is overpowered as saying Usain Bolt winning shit proves Puma makes the best shoes around.

Torpid owns with other factions as well.

Faction wars tend to be rather poor for balance arguments.