Dawn of War Codex

First of all, here's what the a warpsmith is: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warpsmith

Please don't confuse a warPsmith with a waRsmith, they're completely different things.

Warpsmith

Tier: 2

Cost: 400 req/50 power

Build Time: 45 seconds

XP/Red Reward: same as all other subcommanders (+ 40 red upon death)

Size: Small

Model/Animations/Voice lines: CSM voice lines, techmarine animations, uses reskinned techmarine model with appropriately chaotic symbols and evil-looking bionic arm.

NOTE ON HIS MODEL: There may be a Chaos Rising model from the campaign that could be used. If Martellus is the traitor, your squads will briefly talk to him after blowing up his tank. His model is the same techmarine one, but with a more chaotic overtone.

Armor: commander

Health: 600

Starting weaponry: Bolter (28 piercing dps) and fist (22 normal melee dps)

Portrait: not sure where to find a portrait, Kilgarn would have to draw one if this ever gets approved

Starting Ability:

Daemonic Possession: The Warpsmith imbues an allied Chaos vehicle with a demon from the Warp. For 15 seconds, the target vehicle gains + 0.5 speed, +15% damage resistance, and suffers a -33% accuracy penalty to its ranged weapons. Can only be cast on Chaos vehicles (in the same way Painboy can only be cast on Ork units). 70 energy cost.

Upgrades:

Kai Gun: This demonic bolter-like weapon forms the hate of its wielder into bolts of raw Warp energy.
Costs 120/30
Ranged dps remains the same (28), but changes his damage type from piercing_pvp to inferno_pvp. Inferno_pvp is the same damage type that TCSM have.
Gives the following dps values against common targets
Infantry: 28 dps
Heavy Infantry: (28*1.25)= 35 dps
Super Heavy Infantry: 28 dps
Vehicles: 2.8 dps

The Kai gun also grants the "Ammunition of Spite" ability that functions similar to the "Full Auto" ability.
The Warpsmith opens fire on a single enemy model, dealing increased damage and knockback for 5 seconds. 50 energy cost.

Mark of the Dark Mechanicus: This mark imbues the Warpsmith with the blessings of the Dark Gods
Costs 100/20
Grants +100 health, + 1hp regen/second, and + 0.1 energy regen.


Ideas behind this guy, strategy, and synergy with the rest of the Chaos army

Because Chaos need a subcommander!!!!!!!!!!

In all seriousness, I designed this guy in order to synergise with Khorne dreads and bloodcrushers, as well as putting out decent damage towards infantry targets.

"Ammunition of Spite" is a way of controlling enemy subcommanders and weaker commanders, but costs a lot of energy in a race that has little energy synergy. Means that you can't use it AND Daemonic Possession in the same engagement.

The idea is to stick him with your TCSM, use his vehicle buffing ability on vehicles (especially melee ones), and whittle down enemy infantry.


Weaknesses

Jump Units, enemy sniper units, and big ranged blobs (double T2 shootas, double ranged synapse gaunts, etc) will make him run away very very fast.
Lacks AoE abilities and crowd control and a hard melee counter.
Fairly expensive compared to the utility and raw damage of guys like the Weirdboy and the Autarch.


Give me feedback on this idea. Please make sure its not just rage dictated at how much you hate Chaos.

Hmm not commenting on the specifics/balance but a decent idea at least. Could it have some sort of support structure capability?

Does Chaos have vehicle repair issues atm, is a mini-TM needed?

Hmm 1st it was Slannesh hero and now this. Interesting to see

It's a nice idea (like my and Indrid's Slaanesh heros lol), but given how those ones turned out I don't see much point in deep analysis unless we get some encouragement this might see the light of day.

In fact I don't think one of these threads has led to a unit being implemented until the Vindicare, and that was already in the works

Lulgrim wrote:Hmm not commenting on the specifics/balance but a decent idea at least. Could it have some sort of support structure capability?

Does Chaos have vehicle repair issues atm, is a mini-TM needed?

Not really, but Chaos does have trouble with vehicles in general in T2, so this guy could be made a specialist anti-vehicle/vehicle support unit?. The only trick you can really pull off is warp --> havoc. Eldar T2 is like retail Chaos T2, and Chaos T2 has struggled for a bit of AV ever since bloodletters lost their heavy melee. I'm still not entirely convinced this was deserved btw.

Raffa wrote:Not really, but Chaos does have trouble with vehicles in general in T2,

No they don't...

Raffa wrote:and Chaos T2 has struggled for a bit of AV ever since bloodletters lost their heavy melee. I'm still not entirely convinced this was deserved btw.

How can you not be convinced of this? °_O

But never mind since this topic is supposed to be about the Warpsmith.

- As fair as I remember, the Martellus Traitor only have the Black Legion colour scheme and the Chaos Lord red glow effect.

- Ammunition of Spite could also works as a High Powered Shot, because if also deals increased damage you could kill a HI model before the ability ends for the Inferno damage type. (except if the ability makes piercing_damage)

- Daemonic Possession: I don't really know to think about. If the suppose synergy is going to be with Khorne Dreads and Bloodcrusher, I suggest increase the speed and the damage resistance but make the ability unable to shoot ranged weapons.

- I will suggest add the "Repair" ability (like the PC or the Techmarine one), to free a bit the poor Heretics from their repair role.

Still I would like to see a more support vehicle Warpsmith than a combat/support mixed one.

Lulgrim wrote:Does Chaos have vehicle repair issues atm, is a mini-TM needed?

If you asked me, the poor Heretics ATM have too much roles: crowd control with grenade launchers/Doomblast, repair, workshipp, shrine workshipp, cheap unit for map control.

So IMHO yes.

Always liked the idea of a Warpsmith from tabletop, I think they look awesome. Would probably only like to see it implemented if we could get a custom model though, with Mechatendrils and stuff. Don't think a reskinned Techmarine would do him justice.

In regards to his functionality, I'd rather see him as more of a support AV guy than someone popping infantry with an inferno bolter. Start him out with a bolter and give an expensive upgrade for a possessed meltagun and perhaps krak grenades. Maybe some kind of Daemonic Engine structure that buffs allied vehicles and Daemons only.

Could get a T3 upgrade that turns an enemy vehicle mad for a duration (disabling the Warpsmith), like Blood Rage.

I dont want to say I'm against the War(p)Smith, but to be honest there is quite a small list of other (sub)Commanders for Chaos that I'd like to see first.

Slaanesh Champion, Possessed / Deamonhosts, Heralds / Princes

*facepalm*

Forgot to mention that yes he should be able to repair.

Indrid wrote:Always liked the idea of a Warpsmith from tabletop, I think they look awesome. Would probably only like to see it implemented if we could get a custom model though, with Mechatendrils and stuff. Don't think a reskinned Techmarine would do him justice.

In regards to his functionality, I'd rather see him as more of a support AV guy than someone popping infantry with an inferno bolter. Start him out with a bolter and give an expensive upgrade for a possessed meltagun and perhaps krak grenades. Maybe some kind of Daemonic Engine structure that buffs allied vehicles and Daemons only.

Could get a T3 upgrade that turns an enemy vehicle mad for a duration (disabling the Warpsmith), like Blood Rage.

The problem is that there isn't a chaos melta gun model out there as far as I know. Unless someone can rescale the KCSM AC melta pistol.
Giving him krak grenades (that can stick to targets) is an interesting idea

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:
- Ammunition of Spite could also works as a High Powered Shot, because if also deals increased damage you could kill a HI model before the ability ends for the Inferno damage type. (except if the ability makes piercing_damage)

- Daemonic Possession: I don't really know to think about. If the suppose synergy is going to be with Khorne Dreads and Bloodcrusher, I suggest increase the speed and the damage resistance but make the ability unable to shoot ranged weapons.

- I will suggest add the "Repair" ability (like the PC or the Techmarine one), to free a bit the poor Heretics from their repair role.

Still I would like to see a more support vehicle Warpsmith than a combat/support mixed one.

Lulgrim wrote:Does Chaos have vehicle repair issues atm, is a mini-TM needed?

If you asked me, the poor Heretics ATM have too much roles: crowd control with grenade launchers/Doomblast, repair, workshipp, shrine workshipp, cheap unit for map control.

So IMHO yes.

I'd agree that heretics need to be doing a lot of stuff in T2.
Ammunition of Spite would definitely do piercing damage, not inferno, to prevent sniping of tactical marine models and other heavy infantry stuff.

I'm afraid that if Daemonic Possession is combined with a Khorne Dread's Blood Rage, the stacking effect will be too big (all that speed increase and damage resistance).

Hmmm. I am liking this idea. Not sure what his exact role should be but I think this could be a nice addition to Gayos roster.

honestly as interesting an idea as this may be, i really don't think it is something we need.


in terms of commander variety chaos is fine , you have your offensive CL your defensive PC and your magic zappy sorcerer.


plus chaos doesn't really have major unit holes like another race we know of ( see gk)

Always cool to see ideas put out there. I kinda like the idea of a chaos TM kind of thing.

A key problem that I (and many others) have highlighted about chaos is that repairing is not only a problem in T2 when tics are needed for worship and combat support, but it is also risky considering that tics blob up and can easily be pwned while trying to repair a vehicle closer to combat.
I also think this problem is exacerbated by the fact that chaos is so incredibly dreadnaught reliant in the current meta and chaos dreadnaughts inevitably take a lot of damage, thus causing a player to choose whether to repair a dreadnaught or lose the map.

I welcome the idea of the warpsmith so long as his role is largely to repair, support, and augment the play of chaos dreads, tanks, and land raiders. I would not want to see him synergize too well with bloodletters or bloodcrushers.

On the topic of chaos sub-commanders...

If one were to be added, and it wasn't going to be a warpsmith kind of commander, I would really like to see some well thought out synergies for KCSM, Plague Marines, and Raptors.

i think this guy is cool but he needs some kind of debuff for other vehicles.
in fact a psychic stunn like zoans have (not a melta bomb)

i also think that chaos lost a lot of AV options in ELITE - especially infantery based.
every AV option for chaos exept the dread was nerfed in ELITE

sk4zi wrote:i also think that chaos lost a lot of AV options in ELITE - especially infantery based.

They only lost it on Bloodletters -.-

sk4zi wrote:every AV option for chaos exept the dread was nerfed in ELITE

No it wasn't.

ok youre right.
Lascan was also not nerfed.

but TCSM are
PC are (no more self healing at modelkill)
Bloodletters

left:
Lascan havoc
Tzeentch dread

do i miss something?

You count TCSM as AV but not AutoCannons? Interessting choice^^

sk4zi wrote:ok youre right.
Lascan was also not nerfed.

but TCSM are
PC are (no more self healing at modelkill)
Bloodletters

left:
Lascan havoc
Tzeentch dread

do i miss something?

This post is so wrong that it kinda hurts

-Lascannon DPS got buffed!
-TCSM are NOT AV units
-Plagues Marines got better at their AV ROLE! They got a speed buff, their already ridiculous health regen went up, cost reduction, also useful vs infantry,....

Left?
-Dread in all states
-Bloodcrusher
-KCSM (vs transports with their AC meltapistol)
-Autocannon havocs

-Bloodletters with their massive power melee dps are a big threat to vehicles ~~
(-Some people like to think of blastmasters as AV, which can in few situations contribute.)

Educate yourself before posting please! At least do some minimum research.

plague marines AV snare got buffed so they are actually BETTER AV in elite than in retail. That they are no longer unkillable is a whole different matter

What on earth are you people talking about?

Caeltos wrote:What on earth are you people talking about?

About how OP is the Chaos AV, of course.

Nerf plox.

Caeltos, Y U no give you your opinion about the Warpsmith?

I'm processing it all.