Eldar nuke/singularity indicator.

[Dark Riku]

Could we get something new for one of these please?
Kinda confusing that both have the same indicator.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

what ever happens, do not make eldritch storm's indicator bigger; it already comes down to luck or shit pathing to get a hit with it.

[Dark Riku]

No it doesn't...

[Nuclear Arbitor]

it does. the only way to land a hit with it is by hiding the maker under a large enough unit (battlewagon, baneblade or landraider variant), pathing/knockback timing, or player inattention. a guo, hit by a haywire followed immediately by the storm will walk out of the aoe of the storm before hits, doing about 100 damage to him and nothing else. at this point the only way i see to get a hit is to stack timefield and a haywire (40% and 50% snares) and that is only available to the farseer. if haywire snares stack, which i don't think they do, you could double haywire something to hit.

[Dark Riku]

The nuke is fucking amazing.
You are already contradicting yourself in your own response.
There is also this thing called phase shift.
And numerous other things you can combo it with. Not that that is necessary though.
This isn't what this topic is about either.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

it relates to the topic because the indicator plays an important part in the viability of the global.

the global is primarily an anti vehicle global and currently only works on about 4 of the vehicles in the game. yes, it does good damage to infantry but it's not a good anti-infantry global. one could debate whether OB and tyranoform are worse or not but that's really not relevant. in addition the only thing that really has any guarantee of hitting is timing with phaseshift, limited to one hero, or chain knock backs which generally requires multiple rangers and doesn't work on anything with knockback immunity.

[Caeltos]

[Commissar Yarrick]

I see no need for such change even when nuke, summon warpspiders and singularity uses same indicators. You just need to be smart and know what your opponent is thinking.

Its part of the game.

[Commissar Yarrick]

I think Riku's sternguard loss from that HansMoleman's nuke is still in fresh memory.

[Nurland]

Doesn't WS call in use the same indicator as mass tele? Not ES/singu?

And ES is a good nuke imo. Not the best anti infantry but still decent in it and just brutal agains vehicles.

Anyway it could be nice to have different indicators for ES and singu.

[Dark Riku]

I see no need for such change even when nuke, summon warpspiders and singularity uses same indicators. You just need to be smart and know what your opponent is thinking.

Its part of the game.

Ow, ok. Let's revert the "use yer choppas" and "ard boys" indicator too.
And numerous other indicators!
Cuz you know, you should know what your opponent is thinking through telepathy.

And ES is a good nuke imo. Not the best anti infantry but still decent in it and just brutal agains vehicles.

It can wipe full health sterngaurd. That's pwetty good in my book....

[Commissar Yarrick]

Doesn't WS call in use the same indicator as mass tele? Not ES/singu?

And ES is a good nuke imo. Not the best anti infantry but still decent in it and just brutal agains vehicles.

Anyway it could be nice to have different indicators for ES and singu.

The what I remember WS call uses same indicator. Mass TP uses its own.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

when it hits eldritch storm does great damage. it's the same with OB. it's still primarily an av global though and isn't very good against vehicles because it's so easy to dodge. empyrean abyss pull units in and has a huge aoe, OB snares infantry, Roks doesn't snare, has a huge indicator, and takes a while to start but does a shit ton of damage over a huge area. rocket run is fast, hits twice along a line, is hard to see, and does great damage. tyranoform is medium speed and fairly easy to dodge and does great damage. i consider it meh as far as 500 red globals go. eldritch does great damage and lots of knockback but is incredibly easy to dodge.

[Nurland]

And ES is a good nuke imo. Not the best anti infantry but still decent in it and just brutal agains vehicles.

It can wipe full health sterngaurd. That's pwetty good in my book....

Well there must've been some bad luck for you or you just stood there in it's center taking it like a man Or phase shifting/derp throwing

[Nuclear Arbitor]

it does 5400 damage total, i think concentrated in 5 points, with the majority in the center and the rest in a rough square around it. maybe you guys can make better sense of it.

After a 5 second delay, unleashes a terrifying psychic storm that strikes 27 times, each bolt doing 200 explosive damage and ability knockback in radius 5. Vehicles struck by a bolt are disabled for 10 seconds. Starting from the eye of the storm, 9 points are struck with 3 bolts, with a 0.5 second delay between points and a 0.3 second delay between bolts. The array of the storm is a rough octagon, with one point at the eye, and one point removed from the southwest quadrant and added to the northwest quadrant. Cooldown 120 seconds.

given that sternguard have something like 500-600 hp a model i'm not at all surprised it can wipe them, that's ~~ 3 direct hits. i've seen it kill half health battle wagons before. that said i've also had it not at all kill things dead in the center before. it's a really finicky global.

[Dark Riku]

Your Eldritch storm description is incorrect.
It should be:

After a 4 second delay, unleashes a terrifying psychic storm that strikes 27 times, each bolt doing 200 explosive damage and ability knockback in radius 6. Vehicles struck by a bolt are disabled for 14 seconds. Starting from the eye of the storm, 9 points are struck with 3 bolts, with a 0.5 second delay between points and a 0.3 second delay between bolts. The array of the storm is a rough octagon, with one point at the eye, and one point removed from the southwest quadrant and added to the northwest quadrant. Cooldown 120 seconds.

Eldritch Storm delay decreased by 1 second
Eldritch Storm vehicle stun increased from 10 to 14 seconds
Eldritch Storm bolt damage & knockback radius increased from 5 to 6

The global is very, very good.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

yeah, i missed those. just copypasta from dow.wiki

i'd agree that it's good and not usually a waste of red (OB is almost always a waste of red in retail) but it's nowhere near as effective roks, rocket run, or abyss and it's av function was inadvertently effected by the haywire nerf.

[Lulgrim]

and it's av function was inadvertently effected by the haywire nerf.

What?

[Nuclear Arbitor]

a guo, hit by a haywire followed immediately by the storm will walk out of the aoe of the storm before hits, doing about 100 damage to him and nothing else.

first page, fourth post.

[Dark Riku]

That rather sounds like bad placement of the nuke than performance to me...

And are you just ignoring the fact that other nukes hardly dmg vehicles?
That they can just drive out? Instead of being stuck in place for 14 secs!
(That it basically shuts down "super vehicles" for 14 secs since you can't miss.)

[Commissar Yarrick]

Each race nuke has its own strengths and weaknesses. Eldar nuke is more effective vs vehicles when SM orbital is a real killer vs Infantry. Imperial Guard nuke is more based in CC and Tyrannid nuke is meant to support own units while it disrupts the enemy.

If each nuke dealt same amount of damage same way it would ruin the idea of having different nukes altogether.

[Commissar Yarrick]

I see no need for such change even when nuke, summon warpspiders and singularity uses same indicators. You just need to be smart and know what your opponent is thinking.

Its part of the game.

Ow, ok. Let's revert the "use yer choppas" and "ard boys" indicator too.
And numerous other indicators!
Cuz you know, you should know what your opponent is thinking through telepathy.

And ES is a good nuke imo. Not the best anti infantry but still decent in it and just brutal agains vehicles.

It can wipe full health sterngaurd. That's pwetty good in my book....

You lost your sternguard only because 1. You Iqnored the nuke while it was pounding the ground. And 2. You got very unlucky having your squad blobbed on one model, leading to its demise when one pinpoint blast it it. (Can be seen in Indrid's replays)

[Dark Riku]

You lost your sternguard only because 1. You Iqnored the nuke while it was pounding the ground. And 2. You got very unlucky having your squad blobbed on one model, leading to its demise when one pinpoint blast it it. (Can be seen in Indrid's replays)

I did not ignore the nuke, I kept moving forward trying to get out of it as moving backwards or retreating would have taken more time to do.
As you can see in the replay.

Try to only quote the relevant parts please.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

the only way i could have placed it better would be to guess where he was going to walk and place it in the open. which of course makes it more visible. i'm not even 100% sure he saw it, the guo may have just decided to attack the guardians next to it. those 14 seconds of stun are useless if they don't hit anything, which is exactly what happened in that situation. i have no idea if a BB/LR can drive off it under haywire but you can hide it under them pretty easily anyway so it's not as much of an issue. that is why i'm strongly against increasing the size of the eldritch marker.

also, the other nukes don't hardly damage other vehicles. i'd say that the weakest one is abyss but that's mostly an anti-infantry global, a very good anti-infantry global, and it will still kill tanks if they stay in the center for to long because of the damage overtime, which is heavy melee. all globals deal heavy melee damage. the other do fine if they hit vehicles but have a harder time doing so. that said, most of them are more anti-infantry than anti-vehicle, just not as strongly as abyss.

[Nurland]

I think abyss is the only global dealing heavy melee aside from noxious cloud. Other nukes do explosive iirc and some globals ability flame or something like that

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Roks, Rocket Run, Orbital and Tyrannoformation do Explosive Damage, which is more effective against vehicles IIRC.

Other thing is if they hit the vehicles

The real damage in the Abbysm against vehicles is in the center.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

correct, and there isn't anything to snare vehicles. i'd say it's the least threatening to vehicles.

evidently OB does heavy as well.

didn't realize most of them use explosive but to be honest i think abyss is the only one i've really looked at. heavy melee does 0.5 and explosive does 1.

[Dark Riku]

evidently OB does heavy as well.

No, it uses explosive in Elite.

[Nurland]

Yeah. OB used to do heavy melee and piercing. Now it does explosive.

[Maestro Cretella]

empyrean abyss pull units in and has a huge aoe

ROFL don't even start. Eldritch > Empyreal Abyss at everything. Abyss does almost no damage outside of the center rings and is pretty much negated by pressing x on units that are inside of it since it doesn't pull in or knock back retreating units.