Dawn of War Codex

I’ve noticed that Elite has a disappointing lack of Last Stand. I find this to be something of a shame, considering how incredibly fun it is.

Instead of just adding The Last Stand back into the game, I would like to update it by buffing the underused wargear, adding in some new toys, and also possibly adding in new maps (although new maps will be somewhat later on because I don’t have a reasonable grasp of the editor yet. Alternately, I haven’t convinced anyone to do one for me yet).

The first character I’m starting with is the Mekboy. Out of all of the heroes available, he’s the one I’ve played the most and (in my opinion) also the one with the most flawed equipment.

Anyways, all of the information is below. Let me know what you folks think.

Weapons
Big Shoota
No Change

While utterly ridiculous in terms of DPS, the Big Shoota doesn’t really do anything neat (nor does it need to). It is basic and effective, and can find a comfortable place in multiple builds.

Burna
Increase Melee Damage from 4 to 16
Melee attacks ignore up to 65 Armor Value of target

The Burna’s problem is that it really stops being useful after the first handful of waves because there will always be melee units to tie it up. The Lord General’s Flamer does not share this problem because the Lord General usually has at least two things to tank for him, allowing him to continue burning with impunity. The other issue is that, in lore, the Burna’s pilot light is supposed to be “similar to that produced by a Plasma Cutter and is hot enough to slice through even the thickest armor”. To support this, Burna Boyz in Multiplayer have Power Weapon melee dps. So, to that end, the Burna’s getting a damage boost for punching melee in addition to minor armor penetration to up its viability as a weapon choice.

Big Choppa
Change energy boost from “On Melee Kill” to “On Kill”, allowing abilities to generate energy as well
Reduce energy generation from 5 to 2

An increased input at the cost of a reduced output makes the Big Choppa more versatile, allowing ability-centric Mekboys to sustain themselves more easily and making it a viable choice over the Burna.

Rokkit Launcha
Increase damage from 18 to 25
Add Ability: Rokkit Barrage – 15 Energy Cost, 20 second cooldown
Fires three rokkits at the target area in a high arc, dealing damage and knockback* on impact.
* 30 damage per rokkit with weapon knockback in a radius of 3

The Rokkit Launcha is, largely, useless. It lacks accuracy to reliably hit anything and the damage is underwhelming at best. The accuracy against vehicles is kind of nice, but the Launcha's vs. Vehicle DPS is outdamaged by the Big Shoota due to a higher accuracy, base damage, and fire rate. An increased damage output and a barrage ability will make the Rokkit Launcha more viable as a weapon choice. It may receive another buff later, but that all depends on how this buff turns out.

Dakka Deffgun
No Change

While the Big Shoota out-dpses it and it’s vulnerable to melee, the Dakka Deffgun isn’t that bad of a weapon. Suppression is incredibly useful in TLS, and I’m adding a new armor and changing some accessories that will make Deffguns more viable.

Zzap Knife
Fix enemy damage reduction glitch: When reactive-teleported, enemies gain the same damage reduction that the Mekboy does. The Mekboy is the only one that should receive damage reduction when reactively teleported.
Reduce health regeneration bonus from 2.0 to 1.0

The problem with the Zzap Knife is that it’s unreliable – it can be incredibly powerful (a lucky string of swings) or borderline useless (constantly teleporting the enemy or the Mekboy away). It doesn’t help that, due to a bug, enemies receive the damage reduction that the Mekboy receives as well when teleporting away. It is also the “better” option for strictly tanky Meks, as it deals better damage and offers random boosts of damage reduction over the Big Choppa. Its damage can be boosted even further by Ported!!, making all of the teleportation it causes end in violent explosions (which, once the enemy damage reduction glitch is fixed, will cause even more damage to enemies). To this end, the health regeneration has been reduced to make it less powerful and make the Big Choppa a more viable choice.

Armors
Teleporta Pack
No Change

The Teleporta Pack is debatably one of the strongest wargears in the game due to its low teleport cost and enormous kiting strength, and does not need changing.

‘Eavy Armor
If possible, change model to that of the final Slugga Boyz armor unlock

The ‘Eavy Armor makes the Mekboy incredibly durable. Basic but useful, and not really in need of any balance adjustments. I would suggest changing its appearance to make it more in-line with what it actually is and to give it more of a unique visual identifier, but this is strictly optional.

Mad Teleporta Pack
Fix enemy damage reduction glitch: When reactive-teleported, enemies gain the same damage reduction that the Mekboy does. The Mekboy is the only one that should receive damage reduction when reactively teleported.

The Mad Teleporta Pack is fine in concept; it just needs to stop helping the people you’re trying to kill.

Electric Armor
Increase armor rating from 32 to 88
OR
Either increase damage to 5 damage/sec
OR
Statikk Discharge: 10 Energy Cost, 10 Second Cooldown
On taking damage, dealing damage, or casting an ability, the Mekboy generates 1 Charge and can retain up to 100. On cast, Statikk Discharge causes an explosion centered on the Mekboy, dealing damage* to enemies based on how many Charges were stored.
* 150 damage in a radius of 5 on a full charge. 1 Charge equates 1% of damage, with every 20 Charges increasing the radius by 1 (to the maximum of 5).

The Electric Armor is almost oppressively bad. The armor rating wouldn’t be so bad if its damage was good. The damage wouldn’t be so bad if the armor rating was good. Neither of these things would matter if it could build up a deadly charge of energy and explode on command like Nailbrain could from the campaign. So, to that end, the Electric Armor is the first piece of Wargear that has multiple options for what can be done with it to make it less awful.

Kustom Force Field
If possible, change visual to the final Mekboy armor unlock, also the one currently in use by the ‘Ard Armor

Invulnerability on command with a character that can get a ton of energy is pretty handy, so it doesn’t really need a change in terms of stats. The only thing I would change is the visual, as it is (in my opinion) the strongest armor that the Mekboy has available.

Leaky Armor
Increase drop chance of Proximity Mines to from 25% to 50% if Proximity Mines are equipped

Add 25% chance to drop Booby Traps, 50% if the Booby Traps are equipped
The damage reduction it offers in exchange for lack of mobility is… underwhelming, to say the least. I’d rather not introduce another “tank” armor when the ‘Eavy Armor fills that niche so well, so this is more aimed towards pushing the unique aspect of throwing mines everywhere.

Accessories
Booby Traps
Reduce Energy Cost from 25 to 15

Nobody really uses these once they get more items, but they're not exactly bad. I figure all they need is a reduction in cost.

Battery Pack
No Change

The Battery Pack is a fantastic support item, and doesn’t really need changing.

Mega-Rumblah
No Change

Capable of handling entire waves comfortably at the cost of mobility. Not in dire need of an update.

Speshul Tools
Increase energy regeneration by 0.5

Considering that the Mekboy has no other energy-increasing items other than the Big Choppa, the Speshul Tools need a bit of a boost in effectiveness.

Cybork Parts
No Change

Straight durability with no strings attached. Doesn’t need anything else.

Sturdy Bitz
No Change

Knockdown immunity without being tied to a weapon or armor is pretty useful.

Boom Time!
Add trait: “Masta Exploda”, which increases explosive damage by 25%.
Optional visual addition: The Stikkbomma Squad “armor”, featuring the backpack full of stikkbombs

Boom Time! is one of those “oppressively bad” wargears. When the object of the game is to survive for as long as possible an on-death effect… really doesn’t fit. So, to make it actually useful, it will increase the damage of Rokkits, Proiximity Mines, and ‘Uge Bombz, making an Explosive-oriented Mekboy very possible. Stikkbombz and other suggested items will be effected as well, but that’s only if they are implemented.

Dok’s Tools
Increase Health Regeneration by 1.0

Dok’s Tools is underwhelming at best. It simply doesn’t provide enough of a healing utility to make it worth taking, so granting health regeneration is probably the quickest and easiest way to make it viable.

Bouncy Shield
No Change

For an ability that effectively makes you invulnerable to melee units, the Bouncy Shield is pretty useful for ranged builds.

Proximity Mines
No Change

Proximity mines are good damage for good energy cost. I wish they wouldn’t set each other off or were otherwise immune to damage so they wouldn’t be destroyed by wayward AOE, but that’s wishful thinking rather than an actual balance suggestion.

‘Uge Bombz
Hard cap of 10 Bombz active at one time

‘Uge Bombz are good, but too easy to cheese the map with. I feel a cap of 10 is fair.

Commander items
Trophy Rack
Aura also decreases enemy suppression resistance by 25%

Once you get the Boss Poll, the Trophy Rack becomes vastly overshadowed. Suppression immunity and 100 health, along with it being easier to stick around your teammates rather than sticking around enemies, makes the Trophy Rack not worth taking. An increased enemy suppression vulnerability will give it a viable niche for later builds.

Roks
No Change

In my opinion Roks are stronger than both Orbital Bombardment and Eldritch Storm, but not really in need of rebalancing either way.

Boss Poll
No Change

Personally, I would make the suppression immunity the aura effect and have the bonus health only apply to the Mekboy. However, that’s just me, and not something I'm actually suggesting.

New Items
Bashin’ Stikkbomb: Melee Weapon
8 Melee Damage
Melee Special Attack chance: 15.0%
Melee Cooldown: 1.5
Traits
Kablooie!: The Bashin’ Stikkbomb has an 8% chance of exploding when attacking an enemy, dealing a large amount of additional damage to the enemy and knocking back both the target and the Mekboy. After it explodes, the Mekboy deals no melee damage for 5 seconds as he fishes out another Stikkbomb.
Circle of Bomma: When performing a Special Attack, the Mekboy scatters from 6 to 12 Stikkbombs around him.
Intimindatin’: The Mekboy takes 15% less damage in Melee, as enemies are afraid of striking and detonating the grenade.
Description: An exceptionally Orky weapon, this grenade seems to have no pin to pull, requiring the user to smash it repeatedly into enemies until it detonates. Where the Mekboy keeps getting these and how he avoids being harmed by the explosions is anyone’s guess.

Busta Slugga: Sidearm
35 Ranged Damage
Rounds Per Second: 1.0
Ranged Cooldown: 4.5
Accuracy: 65%
Traits
Area of Effect: Busta Slugga attacks deal damage in an area.
Knockback: Attacks cause knockback.
Scattershot: Attacks deal less damage the further away the target is.
Description: The original Busta Slugga was the result of a special request from a Stormboy who witnessed the Speshul Shoota of a Kommando Nob in action and wanted one for himself. Essentially a one-handed shotgun, the Busta Slugga is an exceptional addition to any choppy Ork’s arsenal.

‘Lectric Deff: Beamy Deffgun
50 Ranged Damage
Rounds per second: 1.0
Ranged Cooldown: 4.0
Accuracy: 100%
Traits
Armor Piercing: Attacks ignore up to 160 armor
Heavy: The Beamy Deffgun requires a short setup period before firing and, once setup, a teardown period before moving again.
Abilities
Shazam – 40 energy cost, 30 second cooldown
The weapon charges up for a brief period* and then unleashes a powerful sphere of energy** that explodes violently on impact, dealing damage and knockback in a moderate radius***.
* 3 seconds
** The Battlewagon’s Zzap Cannon projectile or the Weirdboy’s projectile
*** 175 damage in a radius of 5 with ability knockback

Description: A heavily customized Beamy Deffgun that can load an enormous amount of additional energy into its capacitors, leading to some truly spectacular destruction when unleashed all at once.

Loota Harness: Armor
Armor Rating: 12
Traits
Shur Footin’: Removes the setup time for Heavy weapons.
Target Fix'd: Increases Ranged Damage by 25% and Ranged Accuracy by 25%
Description: “Wif da Gitfinda on me face I can take it off da gun and put more dakka where the Gitfinda was! Cor, dat’s brilliant!”

Gofast Gubbinz: Armor
Armor Rating: 100
Traits
Swift: Increases Movement Speed by 25%.
Abilities
Gotta Go Fast – 10 Energy, 5 second cooldown
For a brief time*, the Mekboy runs at breakneck speed**, bowling over anyone unfortunate to get in his way. However, attacking is disabled for the duration of the ability.
* 5 seconds
** +3 movespeed
Description: “Puttin’ engines on me legs to make ‘em go fast works ‘coz I’m da Mek and I says it works!”

Rokkit Jumpa: Armor
Armor visual: Stormboy Epic armor
Armor Rating: 145
Traits
Jump! Smash! Chop!: After jumping or charging, the Mekboy gains 40% increased melee damage for 5 seconds.
Rokkit Propulsion: The Mekboy gains a rocket-assisted melee charge*.
* Deals 30 melee damage and weapon knockback on impact.
Abilities
Assault Jump – 15 energy, 2 second cooldown
Fly through da air wif da greatest of ease! If ya land on some poor git’s head, you’ll knock ‘em right over.*
* Same stats as the Captain’s Assault Jump. Just, y’know… more Orky.
Description: Rokkit Packs are commonly associated with suicidal tendencies, but Rokkit Packs can be custom made to be less “explosion prone” if one has enough teef. A favorite of Stormboyz, these primitive jump packs get the job done in the best way possible: Loudly.

Kult of Speed: Commander Item
Ability
Kult of Speed – 30 Energy, 30 second cooldown
Increase the movement speed of all allied units by 25% and reduce their melee and ranged weapon cooldowns by 25% for 15 seconds.
Description: A fervent desire for speed can manifest itself as a reality-altering boost if the Ork in question believes hard enough.

I see that you put a lot of effort in this one but I assume that the elite mode's purpose is not the last stand. This mod is about balancing the competitive multiplayer. I can state it because the last stand wasn't even included. You have to use the retail version to play the last stand. Although I've been playing lately the last stand with the Tau Commander but really not a big fan of the mod. However I find playing with that commander kinda fun and that allows me to think about performance of the commander of upcoming TAU race. Lots of cool things developers of the elite mode can adopt from him.

Elite's purpose is primarily multiplayer, yes, but it is my understanding that nobody is strictly opposed to the idea of expanding the scope of Elite. I figured that adding in The Last Stand functionality and updates would make it more of the "definitive Retribution mod" than it already is and therefore bringing in more players.

I don't see why we couldn't spice up TLS as well although there are some things to consider.

1. Some people on RN have claimed playing modified TLS can lul your profile (the stats stored on Steam). I can't see why, as playing modified MP doesn't either, but it should probably be tested.

2. TLS heroes have so much shit going on it's a bit of work to mod them. Additionally testing changes requires packing the mod into SGAs (we haven't bothered to do that even for releases so far) and a team of 3 to test it.

3. I can't take this project personally (in case it must still be said). I can consult though.

4. The reason TLS is just goddamned boring is really the lack of maps. I don't know how much other content can improve it.

Also, i'd say allowing TLS on elite mod will hurt the game mode more than it would help it.

Dividing in the population between 2 versions when already the amount of people is so low can't be good at all

True, can't disagree here

I doubt it would compete with MP really, they are so different.

He means those who desire to play last stand currently all dwell in retail and there are very few of them. If we added last stand to elite the population for it would be absolutely tiny.

Last Stand was a nice idea, but some heroes are just so broken compared to others that the game mode just isn't fun anymore.

I appreciate your effort to make the mek halfway decent, but he's still meh as a hero.

The Chaos Sorceror can solo wave 19 anvil of khorne

I'd appreciate it if the discussion steered away from if my efforts are in vain or not and more towards the balance proposals and new items. Don't shit up my thread with discouragement when I'm trying to make something nice. If you're not interested, don't post. If you don't like TLS, don't play it.

That Torpid Gamer wrote:He means those who desire to play last stand currently all dwell in retail and there are very few of them. If we added last stand to elite the population for it would be absolutely tiny.

Many people played Retribution solely for the campaign and Last Stand because it's easier to handle than a competitive multiplayer mode. The current playerbase of TLS is so small because there's nothing else to do - two maps and characters that can reach maximum level in a day or two is not a whole lot of content. I know, off of the top of my head, at least seven people that would start playing again just for TLS updates. There's absolutely an audience for it.

Radio the Forest wrote:Last Stand was a nice idea, but some heroes are just so broken compared to others that the game mode just isn't fun anymore.

I appreciate your effort to make the mek halfway decent, but he's still meh as a hero.

The Chaos Sorceror can solo wave 19 anvil of khorne

Which ones do you think are overpowered? For that matter, which ones do you think are underpowered?

I know that he's still kinda meh, but I was hoping that the updates to his gear would make him at least slightly more attractive by giving him better options.

I for one think this is a great idea! But perhaps it is best to keep this mod separate from the Elite mod until it is more or less done, and then merge them, so the game modes can be updated independently of each other.

Anyway, here are my suggestions (I am not good at balancing, so please forgive the lack of details):
General:
Randomized waves. More than new maps, I think having different (but still progressively harder) waves each time you play will add variation.
New enemies. This is a good place to add the units people want but aren't necessary in pvp, like striking scorpions, swooping hawks, vindicators etc.
Remove retreat from hormagaunts. As far as I can tell, they are the only enemies who retreat, and there is no point in them doing so.
All wargear that grants minions should grant an extra ability to mark an area on the ground, yourself, an ally or an enemy. The minions will go to the targeted location (and attack it if it is an enemy). Costs no energy and has no cooldown. The purpose is to control your minions a little better, so they help you instead of wandering off.
Alter the targeting priorities of the vanquisher turret so it prefers large targets over small, so it shoots at stuff it is actually good at hitting.

Wargear tweaks:
Reduce the damage of the tau shield drone self destruct so it can't one shot bosses, as this takes away all the challenge of fighting them.
Reduce the damage of the tau anti armour missiles so it can't one shot bosses. This is mostly because it is incredibly annoying when the evil twin uses it against you, since it is impossible to escape the highly mobile tau.
Remove knockback immunity from the farseer laughing stave. It is not supposed to be there (at least the tooltip does not say it should grant knockback immunity) and makes the singing spear completely superfluous.
The hive tyrant stranglethorn cannon should do a bit more damage. As it is , it takes too long to kill even basic infantry.
Reduce the energy cost of the Lord General's repair ability to 10-15. Alternatively make it cost no energy to use, but drain energy over time, making it cost more the more damaged the structure is (but not more than 20). So it's worth losing an accessory slot instead of just calling in a new turret when the old one is destroyed.

New toys:
Add a passive ability to leap over cover to all jump packs. The farseer should also have access to this, either from a new wargear, or as an added benefit to one of the old ones.
Space marine:
Hand flamer. One handed weapon that does half the damage of a regular flamer. Used to weaken swarms of enemies before entering melee (needs model).
Autocannon. Good all round damage. Easy to use, but is nothing special (needs model, but can use the chaos model as a placeholder).
Grants ability: Concussive shells (30-35 energy). Does less damage but causes knockback for a short duration.
Grants trait: Heavy.
Multi melta. Does good damage to all targets, but has short range (model available in the Codex Edition and Destroyer 40K mods).
Grants ability: Melta sweep (25-30 energy). Kills infantry in the area of effect. Does not kill heavy infantry unless combat master or other damage buffs are active. Does good damage to vehicles and monsters.
Grants trait: Heavy.

Sorcerer:
Vortex. Commander item. Costs no energy to cast, but drains 10 energy per second. Summons a vortex that moves around slowly and damages enemies and throws them around. The sorcerer is immobile and invulnerable while casting. Taking any other action cancels the vortex.
Chains of torment. Accessory (20-25 energy). Immobilizes enemies.
Zzaapp (needs a different name). Accessory (25-30 energy). Jumps between targets and causes damage.
Lord General:
Cover. Accessory (30 energy). Allows the Lord General to build cover.
Farseer:
Farsight. Accessory (10 energy). Reveals all infiltrated units on the map for a duration.

Visual stuff:
At least one of the Lord General's armours should give him the hat and cigar.
Chaos skin for Space Marine.
Renegade Guard skin for Lord General (needs model).

Bert wrote:I for one think this is a great idea! But perhaps it is best to keep this mod separate from the Elite mod until it is more or less done, and then merge them, so the game modes can be updated independently of each other.

That was my plan, or something similar to it. I was only going to suggest a merger for Elite when certain milestones were reached - for instance, completion of a hero or completion of a map.

Anyway, here are my suggestions (I am not good at balancing, so please forgive the lack of details):
General:
Randomized waves. More than new maps, I think having different (but still progressively harder) waves each time you play will add variation.

If possible, sure. However, the current map concepts are restricted to what I know to be possible - one for Space Marines, one for Orks, ect.

New enemies. This is a good place to add the units people want but aren't necessary in pvp, like striking scorpions, swooping hawks, vindicators etc.

Maybe.

All wargear that grants minions should grant an extra ability to mark an area on the ground, yourself, an ally or an enemy. The minions will go to the targeted location (and attack it if it is an enemy). Costs no energy and has no cooldown. The purpose is to control your minions a little better, so they help you instead of wandering off.

My plan was to implement AI that attacked what you were attacking, rather than adding an ability. Adding an ability is tricky because I'm not sure how many ability slots are available.

Wargear tweaks:
stuff

All of these are noted, although the Tau Anti-Armor Missile thing is what it is and I don't intend on changing it. One of the reasons that you don't build a CLANG character on Bloody Colosseum is because the clones are going to have more damage and health than you do, meaning that you will lose by default if you don't involve strategy of some kind. If you take a powerful ability that makes dealing with the 18 other waves easier, then you have to be prepared to deal with it when the game throws it back in your face.

New toys:
Add a passive ability to leap over cover to all jump packs. The farseer should also have access to this, either from a new wargear, or as an added benefit to one of the old ones.

This could get buggy fast, and also unbalanced. I'm all for adding unique charges and whatnot, but if the player wants to get around, they can fly. The other stuff is noted.

Visual stuff:
At least one of the Lord General's armours should give him the hat and cigar.
Chaos skin for Space Marine.
Renegade Guard skin for Lord General (needs model).

I planned on the hat/cigar being a Commander Item, but sure.

Please don't take my post as discouragement: I was just trying to say that this is going to be a massive project because there are some very real issues built into Last Stand. Melee commanders are BY FAR inferior to ranged commanders (due to a lack of good melee weapons for most heroes), and commanders who can teleport will never ever die if properly used.


This list assumes level 20 on all heroes.

OP
Chaos Sorceror
Hive Tyrant
Tau Commander

Somewhat Balanced
Captain
Lord General

UP
Mekboy
Farseer

Yeah, you got that list right. Tyrant tanks, Sorceror deals the aoe deeps and is the medic and the Tau commander deals the serious deeps.

SM/IG were balanced nicely. Mek was stuck with his big shoota for all eternity unless you got DLC and even then he wasn't much better and the farseer doesn't contribute to the team whatsoever (except for confuses all the doppelgangers on the final wave of Colosseum) , despite being able to solo the entire Colosseum if played well, granted that takes hours...

i always felt like the lord general was quite shitty too. after ~wave 15 or so you can't rely on turrets and troops anymore, and then you're out of the match

Captain is also only good if you have the claw and the DLC shield

HT idk, weird dude, best way i found of playing that guy was sacrificing genestealers to make yourself invulnerable, wasn't very fun to play like that

Chaos sorc was only good as they doppelganger he got. Dunno if i'd call him OP

I really wouldn't nerf anything but rather buff whatever wargear is useless/underused instead. nerfing things in a game mode that's not PvP has always been bad juju IMO

The best Hive Tyrant build is venom cannon, ravener minion, and all minion buffs.

Does the most ranged dps and armor piercing of almost any build. You just need a melee hero ally to distract big melee hordes.

As I've stated, the chaos sorceror can solo wave 19 with the right wargear.
His minion could:
-return to full health from no health every thirty seconds(deathless)
-heal himself and restore energy with every attack(some demonic gift)
-emit free doomblasts that deal insane damage to nearby enemies whenever attacked(another demonic gift)
Combine all those traits with a chaos dreadnought................

Radio the Forest wrote:The best Hive Tyrant build is venom cannon, ravener minion, and all minion buffs.

hasnt that guy got stuck for you where he just stands still and doesnt do anything

Radio the Forest wrote:Please don't take my post as discouragement: I was just trying to say that this is going to be a massive project because there are some very real issues built into Last Stand.

Oh, no. I was mostly referring to the individuals that posted before you.

Melee commanders are BY FAR inferior to ranged commanders (due to a lack of good melee weapons for most heroes), and commanders who can teleport will never ever die if properly used.

A handful of characters can melee (or "melee" where they are centered around abilities and are melee as a technicality) rather effectively.

This list assumes level 20 on all heroes.

OP
Chaos Sorceror
Hive Tyrant
Tau Commander

Somewhat Balanced
Captain
Lord General

UP
Mekboy
Farseer

I would say this list is more or less accurate, but the thing about TLS is that, even for the OP heroes, there are some wargears that underperform enormously (the Cataclysmic Hellblade comes to mind).

That Torpid Gamer wrote:Mek was stuck with his big shoota for all eternity unless you got DLC and even then he wasn't much better and the farseer doesn't contribute to the team whatsoever (except for confuses all the doppelgangers on the final wave of Colosseum) , despite being able to solo the entire Colosseum if played well, granted that takes hours...

"Wasn't much better?" That Juiced Up Tellyporta absolutely made him viable. Additionally, Tanky Meks with the Big Choppa and either Roks or Proximity Mines often got the lion's share of a match's kills if done properly. Also, you must have played with some really bad (and I mean REALLY bad) Farseers if you think she doesn't contribute to the team. I'd go so far as to say that she's tied with the Sorcerer in terms of team buff strength.

Bahamut wrote:i always felt like the lord general was quite shitty too. after ~wave 15 or so you can't rely on turrets and troops anymore, and then you're out of the match

Boots and Guns was fairly underwhelming, but Stormtroopers/Sniper Rifle/Rocket Run was dirty. A quick and spammable artillery with a high range assassination and endless energy made him, essentially, the Proto-Tau.

I really wouldn't nerf anything but rather buff whatever wargear is useless/underused instead. nerfing things in a game mode that's not PvP has always been bad juju IMO

The nerfs that I plan to make are few and far between. I am very familiar with how tricky balancing a PvE game is.

farseer is not up, maybe some wargear is bad, she is one of the strongest in my opinion and my favorite as well.

she can almost ,solo' on colosseum with easy

also ,lack of maps' is not a problem here...
this game mode is boring cos u play vs CPU, lvl-s are not even random or too hard, it would be great players vs players