Dawn of War Codex

I think this unit needs something like a ranged weapon.Something like Multi melta with ability (melta sweep from CR) or something like that

Please list a reason as to why it should have it, not just "it needs it". Be as specific as possible.

In T3 there is a lot of hard av and the Vene can fight only in melee and dies very quickly a ranged weapon could help him to survive a lot longer

I personally think it is fine how it is. It is meant to be used as support (like other vehicles and dreadnaughts), so you should have some infantry to defend it against the anti-tank. Furthermore, you can already build a regular dreadnaught and upgrade it with an assault canon or melta gun, so perhaps that would be a better alternative.

You're going to have to be alot more conviencing then that Kvek to make me actually want to look into the matter. Specific cost-effiency, matchups and overall performance in general should be taken into consideration, as well as the build you had, and the the opponent as well.

Hmm... I thought it was about time Indrid would appear to passionately argue over the issue and he didn't yet lulz.

I don't know why but he seems to like Ven Dread a lot although he mains chaos. I remember one time watching his cast a Ven Dread appeared and he was so glad later when it survived into later stages of the game avoiding some very close deaths.

This post reminds me about he saying something about giving range weapon to Ven considering the fact that it comes out in very late stages of the game or sth.

Before i start i just wanna say i'm not very good at these sort of discussions but i'll do my best.

I usually play as Techmarine when i choose to play as Space Marines. The first thing i usually do at T3 is ready a Ven Dread drop. But if i'm T3, most of the opponents i face already have say multiple Plague Marines, AV weapons, AV abilities and AV units.

When i face a Wraithguard/ Plague Marine spam, i perform a charge and disrupt them before praying to the Omnissiah i get away with it. Enemy tanks can easily kite and annoy a Ven Dread to it's death. The Ven Dread's flamer is obsolete in T3, barely useful when facing T2 stuff.

These few days, i leave my Ven Dread in the base for those nasty Webway Wraithguards. Not a very proud role for a unique unit who survived centuries of war only to have it assigned to guard duty. I'm also screwed on the battlefield when facing a fully upgraded Nob squad with Power Klaw Warboss support.

The ability that activates on death is in most cases, as useful as sending Guardsmen to melee a Avatar. Once the Ven Dread is in that state, enemies flee. That should explain how useful it it.

I'm not gonna say what build i had because fuck Slaanesh thats why. No i dont wanna taco about it.

What i can suggest is, remove the flamer and replace it with a melta like in Space Marine. Way more useful. Give it a ranged weapon upgrade like a Plasma cannon Bjorn had or a Mortis-pattern dread etc. It's also not fair to let all the young'uns get explosive miniguns and Gas shotguns while all the elder elders get double rapefists and a lighter for S'mores.

Not my best post i know but it's 1:26AM @.@ Emprah forgive me

Why is there a lot of AV in Tier 3?
If you didn't get a dreadnought or RB in Tier2 your opponent probably won''t have a random lascannon or any hard av like that. (snares and such)

If you support a vendread it can be very potent. It can get healed with the blessing of the Omnissiah in battle and you can charge away from danger.

You can be ballsy and choose to charge into battle.
But you don't have to just because it's called charge :p

The ven dread is a better dread, i wouldn't mind if it had an Anti Inf upgrade similar to the assault cannon but better, like the one in this pic.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... 73x627.jpg

Altrought the Vdred is in a delicate spot beign a plus to the t3 arsenal and beign a very situational unit imo.
Also yes the charge is mostly used as a defensive cooldown, but it bugs more often than it work, and not just for the Vdred but also for the carnifex and any other unit that has it.

i agree with the autors before.

a "super" dread should have more options, than a normal one, not less.

so at least the Upgrades available for the normal ones sould be possible.
i personally would love to see an upgrade for a twin linked Lascan _(like preds have)

actually (codexwise) Dreadnoughts can geht many many wheapons. also 2 ranged like at Techpriests pic.

also his "Shield" when he dies would be nice to have it as skill to use... short invulnerability or so...

its actually not a balance issue but a cosmetic one.

Of course it's a balance concern if you want to add weapon arsenal to an existing unit.

I don't like where this is going. Having one unit that functions like a swiss knife will become problematic.

Well if there is a fuckton of av on the field why get a vehicle in the first place?
Giving it a ranged weapon could be ok but having a walker with 1750hp in lvl1 with a powerful ranged weapon sounds a tad bit OP.
It is roughly equal to TB fex in melee without rippers but with the ability to be repaired and better disruption.

[I am pretty new to the mod, so please take this with a big bag of salt.]

Even in tabletop dreads have taken quite a knock. So it does not bother me too much if they are vulnerable in DOW. What I have read in some of the fluff that when a dread such as this dies 2 interesting things can happen:

1. It in itself becomes a VP (which is probably impossible to do)
2. It can inspire units in some manner for a certain period.

Just a thought.

Commissar Yarrick wrote:I don't like where this is going. Having one unit that functions like a swiss knife will become problematic.

Giving the dread a ranged weapon won't make it a "Swiss knife."
Nor would that be an argument for a problematic unit.
Catachans, for example, are a "Swiss knife"

Nurland wrote:Well if there is a fuckton of av on the field why get a vehicle in the first place?
Giving it a ranged weapon could be ok but having a walker with 1750hp in lvl1 with a powerful ranged weapon sounds a tad bit OP.
It is roughly equal to TB fex in melee without rippers but with the ability to be repaired and better disruption.

worked fine for the gk dread which has also a powerful melee counter.

JK.

Dark Riku wrote:Why is there a lot of AV in Tier 3?
If you didn't get a dreadnought or RB in Tier2 your opponent probably won''t have a random lascannon or any hard av like that. (snares and such)

Sorry Riku, but i don't know whats a RB

Commissar Yarrick wrote:I don't like where this is going. Having one unit that functions like a swiss knife will become problematic.

We already have more than one unit that act like swiss knifes albeit differently.

Nurland wrote:Well if there is a fuckton of av on the field why get a vehicle in the first place?
Giving it a ranged weapon could be ok but having a walker with 1750hp in lvl1 with a powerful ranged weapon sounds a tad bit OP.
It is roughly equal to TB fex in melee without rippers but with the ability to be repaired and better disruption.

It really depends on the player and flow of battle for you first sentence.

Sure it might be OP, but I've seen so many Ven Dreads get taken down so easily. And never get beyond lvl 2. I myself only had a lvl 4 Ven Dread once but all it could so was disrupt the Nob spam before getting away. (It died 20+ minutes after i bought it though.) A ranged weapon would greatly improve it's tactics and survivability.

Techpriest Drake wrote:Sorry Riku, but i don't know whats a RB

No problem ^^ It's the abbreviation for a razorback.

Dark Riku wrote:

Commissar Yarrick wrote:I don't like where this is going. Having one unit that functions like a swiss knife will become problematic.

Giving the dread a ranged weapon won't make it a "Swiss knife."
Nor would that be an argument for a problematic unit.
Catachans, for example, are a "Swiss knife"

in my opinion most of the tier 3 units are what you call swiss knife.
i mean if you copmare it to other units in this phase its a really weak thing.
its equivalents are terms, Leman Russ, Carnifexes etc.
they all have good range attacks. even the carnifex.

i mean hey, its a T3 global. it can or - lets say should - be strong.
and its the techmarine. he should have options for more (stronger) vehicles.

Dark Riku wrote:

Techpriest Drake wrote:Sorry Riku, but i don't know whats a RB

No problem ^^ It's the abbreviation for a razorback.

Ah i see thanks!

Techpriest Drake wrote:

Nurland wrote:Well if there is a fuckton of av on the field why get a vehicle in the first place?
Giving it a ranged weapon could be ok but having a walker with 1750hp in lvl1 with a powerful ranged weapon sounds a tad bit OP.
It is roughly equal to TB fex in melee without rippers but with the ability to be repaired and better disruption.

It really depends on the player and flow of battle for you first sentence.

Sure it might be OP, but I've seen so many Ven Dreads get taken down so easily. And never get beyond lvl 2. I myself only had a lvl 4 Ven Dread once but all it could so was disrupt the Nob spam before getting away. (It died 20+ minutes after i bought it though.) A ranged weapon would greatly improve it's tactics and survivability.

Hmmm. I suppose a ven dread could have some sort of ranged upgrade which ofc takes away the charge and emperor's fist. Even so it would be a very durable ranged dread. But I don't think a lascannon is a good option for that. It would basically make it a VC fex with 400 extra hp and the ability to be repaired via globals or units while costing less power.

if it's going to get something i think it would have to be a missile launcher. haven't looked at dread upgrades in a while but most of the options are covered in game. that said, tdread is already a bitch to deal with and i'm not interested in having a stronger version. i suppose one could add upgrades that weren't weapons to the ven dread, like a TG repair ability or something, for a fairly high cost.

I don't think it should get ranged weapons.

Would like to see an energy cost and cooldown reduction on its Charge, so you can charge in + Emperor's Fist, then not have it stuck there waiting for Charge to cooldown. Improve its mobility a little, make it a bit more dynamic.

Indrid wrote:I don't think it should get ranged weapons.

Would like to see an energy cost and cooldown reduction on its Charge, so you can charge in + Emperor's Fist, then not have it stuck there waiting for Charge to cooldown. Improve its mobility a little, make it a bit more dynamic.

\


That might work.

You got your wish Kvek

A little heads up to who ever is reading this part, i'm gonna stray off topic a little.
The vast majority of Ven Dread pics I've seen have some form of gun on them, so why not give them one? Also, its a unique unit after all, and we sure could use a change in unit pic. There's another recent forum post about a illustrator volunteering, maybe we could ask his help?

As someone said earlier, you have to weigh the Vdread against the other offerings for that tech level. There isnt any case I can think of where I would legitimately choose it over a tank or terms. There are just too many snares and disablers out there to risk a melee vehicle that late in the game. As it is the only time I get a dread is when I'm winning by a lot so I can hear its awesome voice acting.

Making the charge ability like ASMs jump would be good: short cooldown but it needs 10 seconds to recharge the energy needed to do it again at level 1. So you can use it to escape as well in the same engagement but not quickly, and without using the fist.

Disclaimer - I only play team games, I know vehicles are more potent in 1v1s but those are just stupid capfests :P

I was just about to comment on the game mode :p
It can still be useful in 3v3 ^^
But the main balance should be around 1v1 were it performs just fine I think.
Don't drop it though if your opponent already has (part of) the counters ~~

VDread is great for its cost, less situational than Terminators for the techmarine imo in Elite. Bait your opponent into getting a tank, snare it up and drop a Ven Dread behind it.

Behind it is important. Never let the tank kite away!

Yeah, i made this a long time ago when i didn't play 1v1s so don't take it seriously

I´d still kill for a ranged option for the Ven-Dread. : /

For a Unit that comes out about the same time as other "Super Units" he cant take on any of them.

Even Elite CC Infantry ( like Nobz ), you better hope that they are beaten down after you used your emperor's fist (?) or he'll be dead a few seconds later.

The VenDread cant even take on a Unvetted Khorne Dread.


The only use for his "on death berserk" I found so far was suiciding it vs a big target like an avatar or a GUO and hope the enemy doesnt micro away after the VDread goes down.

90% of the time a VDread dies will be running away from the enemy, the time it takes for a dread to turn around and try to engage the enemy again usually takes too long to get any use out of his on-death mode.

I really like VDreads, but getting a vanilla Dread in T2, level it up or buy Dark Age for it seems like the far better idea most of the time, aaand you can make use of global-repair to support it as you dont eat up your red to call it in.


EDITH:

I think the Idea behind his CHARGE is to get into the action and close distance to the enemy, I think it shows that this unit doesnt really work as intended if this CHARGE gets used almost all of the time to get OUT of combat.

Actually, it's fine how it is. In the CSM vs SM MU, if Chaos goes for MoK CSM/bloodletters, double AC tics, ven dread will rofl stomp it.