Dawn of War Codex

Hey, I'm new (ish) to Elite mod and to these forums, but many have probably seen me playing recently. Since retail have had an idea for a mechanic that could add another dimension to the game. I was hoping to see if there would be any support for the implementation of a game mechanic that would allow certain units to receive a bigger reduction of damage from cover than the standard.

This would be aimed at units which would, in terms of lore, be better-trained, more experienced, or just more skilled, and that are also expensive-yet-squishy, such as Storm Troopers, Catas, Rangers, Warp Spiders, the Vindicare Assassin etc. The cover effect boost would allow a way of overcoming the squishiness of these units without actually altering their natural defence (as doing so would imbalance the unit), and the effect would require the user to consciously use cover to take advantage of it, instead of it being lazily passive. Units such as Tacs, who are perhaps more skilled than the aforementioned units, would not receive such a boost for balance issues as they are not squishy, and this could be explained by their size limiting the extent to which they can use their cover.

What I think this mechanic would achieve is make the elite ranged units better at holding positions in ranged fire-fights, instead of striking and then retreating. i believe the ability to maintain positions as such is a much-needed improvement. You can picture a small squad of Storm Troopers of warp spiders acting in a special forces role, rapidly getting to a location and holding it against a numerically stronger enemy. I think that this would afford such an improvement for said elite ranged units as it would make them more worth their cost and facilitate their use as specialist units which could operate without (or with less) support. It would increase their capabilities vs normal ranged units (which I believe do need increasing as the 'elite' units are not sufficiently better than normal ones muzzle-to-muzzle) and force the opponents to more urgently find counters such as melee.

Green cover already offers a very large damage reduction, and if the effect would be too great for this then maybe the effect could only apply to yellow cover. After all, a large stone wall will protect anyone equally, but lighter cover would require a greater sense of cover tactics, and the elite units would have this. Another dimension which is possible in my mind is making the damage received by the unit, when in cover, from set-up suppression units far less also, while suppression is the same. This reflects the way in which elite units would be trained to use their cover while pinned down and survive under the fire, and as such they could act as a distraction for suppression teams that could draw the fire while the regular units manoeuvre.

I have NO idea how the coding for the game works myself so if this is impossible then sorry for wasting your time. Otherwise I would love to hear what you guys think of this idea and any other ideas you can put forward.

I won't say the idea in itself is bad, although its implementation would likely require a lot of coding and beta testing. But in what would such a change result? To me it sounds like it would be insignificant.

For several reasons: first, covers tend to disappear in the late game. Second, amongst the units you mention only storm troopers often are in cover. Catachans are not because of their short range. WS and Rangers are not because they don't need to, for they playstyle is to be shooting and not shot.

So... I would forget about this.

I was considering that the coding could be very tedious, it would be nice to get an encoder's opinion on this so we know for sure how much effort it would be. On the subject of cover disappearing, and it does, you do see a very large number of craters (which usually give yellow cover) appearing late in the game where the mechanic could be utilised.

That is true as things are, but it can't be said that the other units NEVER find themselves shooting from cover, and part of making such a change as I said would be the addition of NEW dynamics. For example, I do often find Warp spiders teleporting in to fight GM and, although winning the engagement itself, bleeding enough such that the IG player comes off better due to lower reinforcement cost. Teleporting into cover specifically when engaging would appropriately tip the advantage more to the side of the Eldar player's side.

Cheah18 wrote:I was considering that the coding could be very tedious, it would be nice to get an encoder's opinion on this so we know for sure how much effort it would be. On the subject of cover disappearing, and it does, you do see a very large number of craters (which usually give yellow cover) appearing late in the game where the mechanic could be utilised.

That is true as things are, but it can't be said that the other units NEVER find themselves shooting from cover, and part of making such a change as I said would be the addition of NEW dynamics. For example, I do often find Warp spiders teleporting in to fight GM and, although winning the engagement itself, bleeding enough such that the IG player comes off better due to lower reinforcement cost. Teleporting into cover specifically when engaging would appropriately tip the advantage more to the side of the Eldar player's side.

Cover is also situational, one could simply teleport the spiders behind the IG force and win the fight handily? otherwise, it would simply not be wise to aggressively teleport in those situations with a ranged unit. That is simply not what the Eldar faction itself is common for (although the autarch herself would be inclined to such an action so long as she made it into melee).

I don't see the use or positive points for this new dimension.
All it does, in my eyes, is make this complex game even more complex.
Not to mention some units will receive a buff just because? :/

Dark Riku wrote:I don't see the use or positive points for this new dimension.
All it does, in my eyes, is make this complex game even more complex.
Not to mention some units will receive a buff just because? :/

In all honsesty, compared to Company of Heroes DoW2 is a rather shallow game seeing many features that came CoH were watered down for Dawn of war 2.

And if were to propose a "complex" idea, it would be to give Guardsmen modifiers based on their location; when near bunkers or friendly requistion/power/victory points they will gain a stat boost and when out in the open they will recieve a stat penalty. just to emphazise on the more defensive nature of the IG.

The defenders advantage is already massive, as is the advantage for using cover - tactical marines/csm in cover early on are ridiculously strong, as are ranged heroes and this change would only make that worse.

Also teleporting heroes and units such as warp spiders need not ever find themselves out-of-cover and so they are going to hard counter ranged as well as melee. No, this is a horrible idea.

IG already punish offensive play fantastically.

That Torpid Gamer wrote:The defenders advantage is already massive, as is the advantage for using cover - tactical marines/csm in cover early on are ridiculously strong, as are ranged heroes and this change would only make that worse.

It would only apply to certain units, heroes and marines need not be included. The select few units that would have this ability could be discussed, and need not include teleporting heroes, or even warp spiders.

Dark Riku wrote:I don't see the use or positive points for this new dimension.

I was hoping that the units could then be used to maintain positions of importance against lesser units without bleeding too much and being forced off. It means the ranged unit can hold its ground against other small ranged forces and demand that the opponent commit melee or more units to that area. They could thus more effectively act as a screening force or buy a few more crucial seconds for one's main force to manoeuvre.

I was really intending for this effect to be very small such that it only marginally affects fire fights between elite and normal ranged units, when the the elite unit is defending against an attacking, weaker one. The effect could be as little as only increasing the unit's bonus received from yellow cover to equal that of green (or slightly less). Of course if this is hard to program then it would be a waste of time and effort