Filling Out The Codex

[Wise Windu]

I'm not sure if anyone is doing this at the moment, although there are three races in the Codex that aren't even click-able. It would help everyone to have the stats up there, I think, and maybe people would stop misquoting stats in balance discussions.

I will have a lot of free time in the up-coming few months, and I'd be happy to help get the info up on there. I've been fiddling with Cope's Toolbox and I'm pretty confident I can get most or all of the stats out of it. Although, I think I'll need an explanation on damage-per-hit conversion to damage-per-second on ranged weapons (can't seem to get the right numbers for some reason).

That's it, I suppose. Not sure if I should have contacted Lul or Caeltos directly, but when you two read this, please tell me what I can do, if anything.

[Lulgrim]

The numbers are not calculated manually. Some basic programming handles that instead (it would be absolutely impossible to maintain otherwise). I wrote scripts for importing tedious data as well so it can be just copy-pasted from Cope in the Corsix-string format.

Can you deal with HTML at all?

[Wise Windu]

I think so. I finished an intro coding course recently that was mostly HTML, and I've been learning it outside of class for a few weeks now. Not proficient, obviously, but I can understand it well enough and I'm getting better.

I've done a little bit of coding in python and arduino for labs, as well. Only as much as I needed to learn, though. Not the same, but the logic of it carries over a bit.

[Orkfaeller]

The numbers are not calculated manually. Some basic programming handles that instead (it would be absolutely impossible to maintain otherwise). I wrote scripts for importing tedious data as well so it can be just copy-pasted from Cope in the Corsix-string format.

Is that the reason why the codex entries appear to me in that fake latin / "imperial gothic"?

[Lulgrim]

?

[Forestradio]

The numbers are not calculated manually. Some basic programming handles that instead (it would be absolutely impossible to maintain otherwise). I wrote scripts for importing tedious data as well so it can be just copy-pasted from Cope in the Corsix-string format.

Is that the reason why the codex entries appear to me in that fake latin / "imperial gothic"?

I'm pretty sure that the "lorem ipsum" block of text is just a placeholder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum

And it's not imperial gothic, it's a modified form of classical Latin (Cicero wrote it) that doesn't make any sense if you try to translate it.

[Orkfaeller]

?

http://www.dawnofwar.info/index.php?pag ... readnought

it's a modified form of classical Latin that doesn't make any sense if you try to translate it.

Yeah I know, and isnt that basically the definition of Gothic?^^

[Wise Windu]

Well, I didn't have much to do after new year, so I thought I'd make a 'nid codex page and LA page for fun. I didn't make the tyranid weapon page for obvious reasons, and the regular units (besides the hormagaunts) don't link to anything, but it's something.









And the rest:
http://imgur.com/a/StjOx

Happy new year everybody!

[Flash]

yay! My thanks for helping with this.

@Orkfaeller

Gothic refers to either the actual Germanic group of people called "Goths" or the architectural style that became prominent between 1100-1500 in Europe. In terms of this game, the latter is more relevant. The style is mainly noted for ribbed vaults(on the ceiling) , large windows and flying buttresses. Structures built in this style usually had large areas that were well-lit, and many areas that were not. The ships in 40K show strong influence, they pretty much look like flying cathedrals. Gothic is in many ways associated with the medieval period and the church, that when when combined with the lighting aspects of such structures gives us the more general meaning of the adjective 'gothic' which can be taken to mean dark/gloomy (The original term was coined becasue a critic of the style likened it to 'the barabric goths (the historical people)').

yeah idk why I wrote that either

[Orkfaeller]

yay! My thanks for helping with this.

@Orkfaeller

Gothic refers to either the actual Germanic group of people called "Goths" or the architectural style that became prominent between 1100-1500 in Europe. In terms of this game, the latter is more relevant. The style is mainly noted for ribbed vaults(on the ceiling) , large windows and flying buttresses. Structures built in this style usually had large areas that were well-lit, and many areas that were not. The ships in 40K show strong influence, they pretty much look like flying cathedrals. Gothic is in many ways associated with the medieval period and the church, that when when combined with the lighting aspects of such structures gives us the more general meaning of the adjective 'gothic' which can be taken to mean dark/gloomy (The original term was coined becasue a critic of the style likened it to 'the barabric goths (the historical people)').

yeah idk why I wrote that either

Uhm, Gothic ( High and Imperial ) is the language spoken in the Imperium and developed out of latin ( with some minor influences from french and a couple of other terran languages ) :l

[Nuclear Arbitor]

it's also slang for people who dress in dark clothes with unnecessary amounts of chains, clips, spikes, and studs and bemoan life.

[Flash]

d'oh. Yeah that was kinda a stupid comment my bad haha. I'm aware of the cultural meaning of the term as well, but seeing as how it is a derivative of what I was talking about, I didn't think it was relevant.

[Wise Windu]

By the way, what is the equation for ranged dps? It's been bugging me that I couldn't get it right.

Edit: Did the hive tyrant




http://imgur.com/a/StjOx

[disco]

can help with eldar codex if need.

[Wise Windu]

So uh, can I help or am I under-qualified?

[Lulgrim]

Contact me on Steam.

[Bahamut]

So far, between calculating dmg with milty and talking with lulgrim, the damage formula for all ranged weapons seems to be the following:

(burst duration*damage_hp*average reload frequency) / (average reload frequency*(wind up + wind down + cooldown + burst duration) + reload_duration)

now, wind up and/or wind down may be 0, but cooldown never is, so equation should not have N/0 errors so they should always stay at 0 if that's what the weapon stats show

if average reload frequency ( (min + max)/2) is 0 (meaning the weapon doesnt ever reload) then the value it's changed to 1.

if burst duration is 0 (means is a single shot weapon) then the value it's changed to 1

[Nuclear Arbitor]

maybe i'm just tired and hungry but

burst duration*damage_hp*average reload frequency / average reload frequency*(wind up + wind down + cooldown) + reload_duration + burst duration

shouldn't that just cancel out?

[Wise Windu]

maybe i'm just tired and hungry but

burst duration*damage_hp*average reload frequency / average reload frequency*(wind up + wind down + cooldown) + reload_duration + burst duration

shouldn't that just cancel out?

No. If it were only being multiplied in the denominator (frequency*(windup, etc)), it would be. It's being added to reload duration and burst duration too, which are also in the denominator I think, so it wouldn't just cancel out.

Unless I'm reading it wrong and the durations are separate from the fraction. In that case, it would cancel.

[Lulgrim]

burst duration*damage_hp*average reload frequency / average reload frequency*(wind up + wind down + cooldown) + reload_duration + burst duration

The burst duration must be inside the parenthesis, as it is spent for each burst (while the reload duration happens only once for the entire cycle).

now, wind up and/or wind down may be 0, but cooldown never is, so equation should not have N/0 errors so they should always stay at 0 if that's what the weapon stats show

Cooldown can be 0, no reason why not.

if burst duration is 0 (means is a single shot weapon) then the value it's changed to 1

Doesn't work, it should be 1 on the left side but 0 on the right side (or 1 second of delay will be added incorrectly). If the weapon has no burst duration, it's a single shot weapon so use the single-shot formula.

[Lulgrim]

shouldn't that just cancel out?

I'm getting quite fuzzy on any real mathematics as it's been around 15 years since I studied any but let's just consider the CSM bolter.

7 cycles * 2 second burst * 23 damage / 7 cycles * (1 second cooldown + 2 second burst) + 3 second reload

Comes down to about 13.42 dps. If I leave out the reload frequencies

2 second burst * 23 damage / 1 second cooldown + 2 second burst + 3 second reload

You can see we're comes to 7.67 dps and you can see we are calculating it like it would reload after every burst. As the reload time (duration) should be divided by 7 as well should you want to eliminate the reload frequency from that equation. On the other hand,

burst * damage / (wind-up + wind-down + burst + cooldown) + (reload-duration / reload-frequency)

should give the same result (not that it helps much as you'd calculate this automatically anyway).

[Bahamut]

burst duration*damage_hp*average reload frequency / average reload frequency*(wind up + wind down + cooldown) + reload_duration + burst duration

The burst duration must be inside the parenthesis, as it is spent for each burst (while the reload duration happens only once for the entire cycle).

you're right, forgot about it.. gonna edit to avoid confusion

I havent seen any weapon with 0 cooldown and 0 wind up and wind down and burst duration. But well, in the rare cosmic and magic event all 4 values are 0 then yeah it'd be a continuous weapon that never stops firing. Also, burst duration is included in the parenthesis and that value can't be 0, since then we would be going to single shot weapons and that's another formula, so no matter what, never change the values inside of that parenthesis

so, for burst weapons the formula is:

(burst duration*damage_hp*average reload frequency) / (average reload frequency*(wind up + wind down + cooldown + burst duration) + reload_duration)

if reload frequency = 0 (no reload weapons) then change it for 1


@Nuclear (x / x+y) the x can't be canceled, because x+y is a totally different number than x. If it was (x / x*y) then yeah, you could cancel the x's

[Lulgrim]

I havent seen any weapon with 0 cooldown and 0 wind up and wind down and burst duration.

A weapon with no burst duration is a single-shot weapon so it makes no sense. As for the other values,

http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... ile_flamer
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... aider_left
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... avy_flamer
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... aider_left
http://www.dawnofwar.info/elite/weapon. ... ulse_laser

But well, in the rare cosmic and magic event all 4 values are 0 then yeah it'd be a continuous weapon that never stops firing.

It could still reload after firing each time...

[Nuclear Arbitor]

eh, i see it now. it gets distributed through and that's why it matters. i spent 10 hours flying yesterday (including sitting on my ass in SEATAC) and i was exhausted so i wasn't thinking very well about math.

[Bahamut]

mmmm those are indeed exceptional weapons lol, good to know and ty for wasting your time finding them. Anyway, we are at least in the same page now. formula should be working properly for any burst weapon

[Lulgrim]

It was quite easy to list them as I have full access to our own database so I just reordered everything according to those values.

[Asmon]

I want full access too :'(