Dawn of War Codex

Preamble
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This thread's purpose is to help the players try and figure out the tips and tricks from the pros and leave their questions here where the more experienced players can drop in responses.

This thread is placed in general discussion since it isn't inherently about balance, but rather simple strategery. If it's more appropriate in the balance section, either please move it there (in that case, thanks) or I'll just repost this thread there. This means keep the balance discussion to a minimum in this thread.
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How the Thread will work:

Faction Initials:
IG = Imperial Guard
SM = Space Marines
GK = Grey Knights
E = Eldar
O = Orks
C = Chaos
T = Tyranids

Questions will be labeled by faction and number. For example, IG3 means Imperial Guard question 3, which refers to Flamer Guardsman. When you post a question, start with this format:

[Faction Initials][First available number])
Your question here.


For answering, simply input the sequence for the question(s) you'll be answering and then post your answer. It should look like:



On to the show!
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The Questions:

General 1)I only really play CL/CSM, and while it might be early to branch out, how do I approach learning to play new races? Particularly, I would like to learn Commisar Lord/imperial guard and warlock/Eldar - both of which have more ranged focus than I'm typically used to playing. Should I just run a lot of trial and error? Or is there like races/heroes I should try in between to segue into the race of choice?

IG1) I noticed that the Guardsman can deploy cover, which is nice. I had the idea to try and use it to block out certain routes/stairs on maps but I haven't seen a noticeable effect. Can units just pass through the cover? Or just units that can smash cover? Is it even a worthwhile idea?

IG2)I also noticed that Guardsman can deploy turrets, which is cool. They're fairly cheap but don't seem to supress like the Techmarine turret does. What kind of situations would this turret be helpful? I'm thinking it might synergize well with Sentinel stomp + Guardsman repairs, but it seems like the combo is trying to compensate for no supression.

IG3) Fully upgraded Plasma Guardsman are :O against a good amount of units. But the Flamer Guardsman seem less helpful to me. It locks out the Plasma and forces them to come up closer. Is a Flamer Guardsman only really useful against armies like Tyranids or Imperial Guard, or maybe as just gen bashing? Or does it have some hidden usefulness I'm not seeing?

IG4)Catachans vs. Spotters. Against Eldar, I like to get a detector unit to try and hunt down Webway gates even though Rangers seem unlikely to be fielded. The Catachans seem to be pretty helpful against a lot of the T1 Eldar roster with disruption for Shuris/Shees. What kind of army compositions would the Spotters be preferred, even against armies that don't field as many setup teams as Eldar?

IG5)I've had a lot of trouble against the Warlock hero. I learned pretty quickly that the Destructor doesn't seem to be effected by cover, which hits my Guardsman hard. Worse, when the Warlock gets the Immolator + Channeling Runes I have a hard time finding answers to this particular hero early game. I tried 2 Guardsman/Sentinel/HWT/Catachans but this composition just seemed to fall apart. I don't think the composition is all that bad and it was more my own micromanagement but how would I go about engaging the Warlock geared as such? What kind of options do I have on the table?

IG6)Guardsman, Stormtroopers, Kasrkin. On paper these three units all few very similar. When do I want to go with Kasrkin over Stormtroppers? Storms over Guardsman? etc etc.

SM1)The Techmarine Turret and Relay. Both of these are really helpful and I can see their helpfulness in team games. In 1v1s it's a different story. I've tried to set up the turret to mostly good effect in several games, but the Relay has been harder to find a place and time for. Is the Relay just more of a team structure? What kind of maps/matchups is a relay in 1v1 a good investment?

SM2)Scout Marine weapon upgrades vs default bolter. Scouts are pretty neat in how you can specialize them. However, I've seen some people go for just sergeants and no weapons. I can intuit when I would like a shotgun, and can reason out when a sniper might be nice. But what kind of situations would going for only sergeant/vanilla be better than spending power on a weapon upgrade?

SM3)Devastators vs Assaults. I think both units are good, but I find myself almost always wanting Assaults. I feel like they offer more in helping with setup teams and also as some of the only melee I can field for most of the game. However, Devastators are a lot cheaper in comparison and offer a bit more staying power in terms of supporting from the back. What kind of situations would make me favor the Devastators over Assaults?

SM4)Techmarine vs. Tanky Melee Heroes. I refer to both the unsupressable varieties such as the Chaos Lord and Hive Tyrant, but also just generally tough melee ones like the Force Commander or the Commissar Lord. I end up feeling overwhelmed at times trying to hold the line against such heroes that can tie up valuable units or eat scouts for breakfast. I would think this is one scenario for Devastators, but most of these heroes can mitigate supression either naturally by being unsupressable or via the use of wargears (and the default shield @CoL). As a Techmarine, what kind of options do I have to try and stop these ragetrains?

SM5)Techmarine Melee Build. I've noticed that going Axe of the Mechanicum-Bionics-Refractor Field could turn your Techmarine into a good (average?) melee fighter. It seems kind of counterintuitive to me but the option is there. Just how good is this build vs. a ranged build? What kind of armies would such a build be helpful?

SM6) So Space Marines can get a Whirlwind onto the field in T2. Just looking over the stats, it's a different flavor of artillery from the Manticore and thus I assume it also is used in a different way. How worthwhile is the Whirlwind in 1v1/team games over other purchases with more straightforward punch like a Dreadnought? Also, how does it compare to Plasma Devastators who also have a role as a form of artillery?

GK1) How do I deal with some of the early vehicle pressue I sometimes get in the form of a fast Deff Dread or a Bloodcrusher? I just feel like they do too much damage before I can intervene.

E1) How good is the Autarch's Fusion Gun? Don't think I've ever seen it in action.

E2)When should I build Seercouncil (against which enemy compositions/races/units, 1v1/3v3?), what are they cabable of and how should I use it?

E3) same question for Darkreapers and Firedragons, I almost never build them ever. Most of the time because I have not enough requisition, but alot of power. If I build them I am probably behind, and thats no fair place to see their strengths^^. They seem to drop models so freaking quick.

E4) I see a lot of people buying the Aspect of Strength for Banshees. Is the heavy weapon blade that worthwhile over the dual mirror swords for Fleetness? When do you want one of the particular Aspects?

C1) CL builds focusing on sustainability.

Looking around at his equipment, there are two options that I am aware of that are viable builds to make the CL much more sustainable. I'm wondering in which case is either viable, or if there is one much preferred over the other...

1.) The T1 combo of dark halo +harness of rage that restores essentially 25 hit points on hit (5 energy per hit, 1 energy = 5 HP), which also makes him knockdown immune, so he becomes quite the juggernaut. The only con to this is that it is very power heavy and if i rush this out, it denies me suppression and disruptions options, like havocs, raptors and noise marines, and also prevents me from teching, and forces me to be T1 power-free unit focused...

2.) Lightning claws + armor of inferno (or any armor really, i prefer the inferno though) + mark of khorne, which gets me a 1% heal each bit and the dual lightning claws get me the most hits per unit amount of time. This is usually my build so I have a fairly good idea how it works. It won't get me 25 HP per hit like the other combo does, but it does allow me to use any armor I choose, so if I really wanted to focus on just health regen, I could get the mantle of hate...

C2) Noise Marine's niche/role I'm trying to figure out in which situations I could build noise marines into my builds.. usually I end up using havocs to provide suppression across a swath of units, or raptors to shut down set up teams., but I'm not exactly sure where I'd prefer noise marines - especially coming out of retail where the NM had 3 noise...throwers and could just shut down an entire platoon of guardsmen and going to ELITE where there's...just one. I do very much like blast masters, but they seem counter to my melee focus of daemons and CL, where the blast master will end up killing me, as well as I am not aware of a significant advantage I can draw from noise marines other than really fast gen bashing/ more durable disruption than raptors. Can anyone shed light on this?

T1)I've seen a lot of talk about the Lictor Alpha and his general strength in the current state of the game. What does the Lictor Alpha bring to the table that the Hive Tyrant or the Ravener Alpha don't? I'm thinking it has to do with the Fleshhook, but being one of the only infiltrating units in the Tyranid army (besides Genestealers I think) might have something to do with it.

T2) With my hourms and terms, when should I get their endless swarm upgrades? Feels like the power might be better spent on other things like faster teching. I have the same issue with the Adrenal Glands for the Horms.

T3When I play the Hive Tyrant, he comes with the same synapse T1 Warriors would provide. Would forgoing Warriors as a HT be a viable build? Especially with the more shooty Nid builds like with Venom Broods?
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Lot of text and don't feel the need to answer every question. Just post anything you feel like and thanks for your help!

Hey! I'm fairly new too, but I'll try to help regardless.

For SM3, it really depends on what you're going for. Devastators are much more static, and because of that really don't push as much as they form a line for you to fall back to - whether that's falling back to a VP or whatnot. Assault marines are much better at inserting themselves and tying up specific targets - especially with their knockdown on landing. This automatically disables weapon teams and can perhaps save a squad in melee and buy time for their retreat.

It's important to distinguish though, that Assault marines don't supress, they knock down. Which means it's back to business as soon as they get back up. Their real value is disabling weapon teams, at least as far as my understanding and experience with them goes. Devastators are much better at suppressing infantry and slowing/holding infantry armies.

Also keep in mind that devastators, I believe, can be upgraded to a lascannon so they have the flexibility to become AV on demand, whereas aside from meltabombs, assault marines arent an especially hard counter to armor.

IG1 The time spent blocking off a route could much more effectively be used to try to control the map by force/capturing points, etc. Superheavy heroes and by T2, Vehicles will just smash through anyways. Don't forget banshees with their aspect can jump cover.

IG3

I believe flamers also do bonus damage against heavy armor? If I'm correct, that'd make them much more effective against space marines and CSM early on... I think flamers also ignore cover and do considerable damage against garrisoned units, so it can burn out entrenched units.

Takadekadaka wrote:I believe flamers also do bonus damage against heavy armor? If I'm correct, that'd make them much more effective against space marines and CSM early on...

Well it's not quite so simple, but there are several angles to consider.

- the heavy infantry modifier for flame (0.75) is slightly better than for piercing (0.67)
- however the base damage of flamers is quite low, so the default weapon is more effective vs. a single heavy infantry target
- except if the target is in cover, because the flamer gets a massive damage bonus
- but your own unit probably needs to stand in the open to use it as the range is short
- however the flamer has a fair sized circle area where it does full damage, so if say 3 Tac models fit inside the radius, the flamer is effectively dealing triple damage

So

Worst case scenario - the target is too far away and the flamer guy is picking his nose.

Meh scenario - the flamer can only hit a single model so it deals less damage than the default weapon.

Yay scenario - the flamer can hit 3 models (3x damage) who are standing in heavy cover (2.5x damage).

flamers do not do bonus damage against heavy armour, only against any target that is sitting in cover

but I have seen 2 plasma guardsmen and 1 flamer guardsmen do well against tyranids. the flamer guardsmen act as a meatshield and can burn away the gaunt units while you use the plasma guardsmen to focus down the warriors.

The turret actually does quite a nice bit of damage, especially when upgraded. if the turret is well supported can pretty much prevent any t1 pushes into an area or outright deny a section of a map to capping units.

destructor does hit guardsmen hard, but guardsmen are there to die. easier said than done, but try not to blob them up and try to predict when your opponent is about to cast destructor by rapidly changing their direction, etc.

I personally would go for spotters vs eldar. senti stomp and inquisitor (assail or crossbow pistol) are more than enough to stop banshees in their tracks, and guardsmen will force the eldar to bleed if they engage you in a firefight. spotters will also nicely counter shuriplats.

if you do wana be sneaky you can get the armour that allows the inq to infiltrate, then you can use her and some infiltrated catachans to open up some nasty suprises on the eldar. and if you plant IEDs across the map, you'll probably force the eldar to get rangers, and while rangers are useful in every match up, probably less so against eldar unless they are being used to set up grenades or banshee runs

1. I've only used the relay once in a 1v1, but generally it is a lot more powerful in team games. It still can be useful though, but can potentially be a death trap.

2. a scout squad with a sarge puts out semi-decent dps from range and generally if there are no melee units out on the field, and if you're not planning on using your scouts aggressively ala a double shotgun scout build then shotguns generally aren't needed. While shotguns imo do scale very well against orks, nids, eldar, chaos, against IG probably not so much unless ogyrns appear.

3. As a techmarine, I'd generally only get assault marines if I'm up against ranged heroes that have no real way of dealing with melee because the tm can't really support asms in the same way the apo and fc can.

BUt I'd never get assault marines against an ork warboss or any tyranid just because of the sheer amount of counter-initiation options they have. I'd much rather get double devastators to deal with big tanky line-breaking heroes. Overlapping suppression and vengeance rounds are your friend.

4. Kite. Kite. Kite. double shotgun scouts with a tactical marine squad and a devastator squad (maybe even 2). If your setup team gets jumped use shotgun scouts to cover your devs while they re set up.

5. a melee techmarine is very good at counterinitiating jump units because his axe drains energy. However one problem the tm has is that his shield does not protect him from knockback.

Overall, in a team game I think it's much safer to get a tm with a ranged weapon. with his plasma gun and mark target he becomes an ungodly rape train that melts heavy and super heavies.

in a 1v1, his melee build is much more viable, especially if you have to deal with jump units imo. bionics to knockback and his axe will prevent them from jumping twice because of its energy drain.

I wouldn't pit a melee techmarine against a chaos lord, warboss, or other big melee heroes though. I've had mixed success with him in this regard. Had him whoop chaos terminators and a chaos lord before. Have had him get whooped by an ork warboss and force commander on many other occasions. But against a chaos sorc? perhaps I might field an axe against him

I'm not amazing at this game but I've played enough Eldar vs IG to tell you that the Warlock is just going to flat out make your early game miserable. Having played mostly Eldar since starting Elite about a week ago, the Warlock just does an amazing amount of damage early on in the game. Destructor can just immediately remove the presence of one Guardsman Squad if it hits perfectly as even if it doesn't kill any models, they will all be so low they would bleed immediately. Combine that with the Warlock's wonderful leap attack and a great special attack and you have a nasty hero to face.

Worst of all, the Immolator Blade which is easy enough to rush, gives the Warlock another nuke and more damage from melee attacks which combined with Destructor can wipe a Guardsman Squad very quickly.

From my own experience, two things piss me off about IG, Old Reliable from Catachans and the Inquisitor Hammer of the Witches (I think it's called this). Hammer of the Witches stops the Warlock dead in his tracks and Old Reliable basically tells Howling Banshees to fuck off while you shoot them with Guardsman. As said earlier in the thread as well, Artillery spotters are frustrating for my setup teams.

Bottom line, I'd say that the Warlock quite comfortably counters the IG early game but you have a few options when you can get Catachans out or if you do indeed run the Inquisitor, it's just not that easy.

T1)I've seen a lot of talk about the Lictor Alpha and his general strength in the current state of the game. What does the Lictor Alpha bring to the table that the Hive Tyrant or the Ravener Alpha don't? I'm thinking it has to do with the Fleshhook, but being one of the only infiltrating units in the Tyranid army (besides Genestealers I think) might have something to do with it.

C1) CL builds focusing on sustainability.

Looking around at his equipment, there are two options that I am aware of that are viable builds to make the CL much more sustainable. I'm wondering in which case is either viable, or if there is one much preferred over the other...

1.) The T1 combo of dark halo +harness of rage that restores essentially 25 hit points on hit (5 energy per hit, 1 energy = 5 HP), which also makes him knockdown immune, so he becomes quite the juggernaut. The only con to this is that it is very power heavy and if i rush this out, it denies me suppression and disruptions options, like havocs, raptors and noise marines, and also prevents me from teching, and forces me to be T1 power-free unit focused...

2.) Lightning claws + armor of inferno (or any armor really, i prefer the inferno though) + mark of khorne, which gets me a 1% heal each bit and the dual lightning claws get me the most hits per unit amount of time. This is usually my build so I have a fairly good idea how it works. It won't get me 25 HP per hit like the other combo does, but it does allow me to use any armor I choose, so if I really wanted to focus on just health regen, I could get the mantle of hate...

C2) Noise Marine's niche/role I'm trying to figure out in which situations I could build noise marines into my builds.. usually I end up using havocs to provide suppression across a swath of units, or raptors to shut down set up teams., but I'm not exactly sure where I'd prefer noise marines - especially coming out of retail where the NM had 3 noise...throwers and could just shut down an entire platoon of guardsmen and going to ELITE where there's...just one. I do very much like blast masters, but they seem counter to my melee focus of daemons and CL, where the blast master will end up killing me, as well as I am not aware of a significant advantage I can draw from noise marines other than really fast gen bashing/ more durable disruption than raptors. Can anyone shed light on this?

Atlas wrote:T1)I've seen a lot of talk about the Lictor Alpha and his general strength in the current state of the game. What does the Lictor Alpha bring to the table that the Hive Tyrant or the Ravener Alpha don't? I'm thinking it has to do with the Fleshhook, but being one of the only infiltrating units in the Tyranid army (besides Genestealers I think) might have something to do with it.

- Stealth and its general annoyance
- awesome wargear that makes him hit hard like a truck (though this has been nerfed)
- Flesh hook works amazingly well - i.e hit a squad with a 'sergeant is last to die', and have your nids tear apart the squad by hitting the lone sergeant and watching other units drop.
- Flesh hook allows him to counter weapon teams when used in conjunction with his stealth
- Pheromone Cloud allows him to have units reinforce around him and I believe has a second benefit, though I forget what; believe it's damage resistance of some sort? I don't see it often so I can't say (typically, you only see someone like Frenchmen use it - and heavy reliance on this ability can be easily countered)
- can drop spore minse as a global, which is fantastic versus setup teams

etc. There's probably more but that's just a basic idea of his strengths.

Takadekadaka wrote:C1)CL builds focusing on sustainability.
C2) Noise Marine's niche/role I'm trying to figure out in which situations I could build noise marines into my builds.. usually I end up using havocs to provide suppression across a swath of units, or raptors to shut down set up teams., but I'm not exactly sure where I'd prefer noise marines - especially coming out of retail where the NM had 3 noise...throwers and could just shut down an entire platoon of guardsmen and going to ELITE where there's...just one. I do very much like blast masters, but they seem counter to my melee focus of daemons and CL, where the blast master will end up killing me, as well as I am not aware of a significant advantage I can draw from noise marines other than really fast gen bashing/ more durable disruption than raptors. Can anyone shed light on this?

Noise Marines are fantastic. Obviously, they completely annihilate Light Infantry squads, but the fact that the cancel and supress abilities and ranged combat for ranged squads is unbelievably effective. Furthermore, they can be used in conjunction with a little heretic worship to flank around setup teams and locked them down from a distance - I've done this many times when playing the CL.

To be honest, if I'm playing a CL, I will 9/10 times, try and get noise marines over raptors unless I'm against double setup teams, as heretic worship + CL and dark halo is easy to use to setup teams. It also doesn't help that I find raptors sort fo trail off after Tier 2 and aren’t as effective in dealing with the jump infantry role compared to some of the other better jump troop. If it ever comes to a point, I try and have bloodletters in tier 2 if I can hold off on buying jump troop as I'm not particularly fond of them.

C1,C2

@Chaos Lord
For Rage+Halo, if you go for only Havocs and delegate heretics to capping/worship or only 1 aspiring champion I think it's ok power cost wise. That being said, I don't know the exact power cost.

For Claws+Inferno+Icon This seems better as its a T2 loadout that is similar to one but adds Let the Galaxy Burn as an option.

@Noise Marines
I've seen them used comboed with Havocs and with Sorceror. Havocs supress, Sorceror can buy teleport to tie up any setup teams which leaves the Noise Marines free to move up and either shut down another squad, cacophony a melee squad or go gen bash. Never done it myself, so just an observation.

Halo + Harness of Rage is 50 power iirc. but it's a matter of preference and playstyle how much power you spend in t1.

My personal preference of CL builds is generally like this:

GK: Lightning Claws, Harness of Rage, Dark Halo

SM: Halo, Rage, Claws or Maul/Claws, Mantle of Hate, Daemonic Visage. The latter one if you have trouble dealing with hero or subcommander.

Eldar: Combi/Maul, Hate/Inferno, Visage

Nids: Combi/Maul, Inferno, Visage

Orks: Combi/Maul, Inferno, Visage

Chaos: Combi/Claws, Rage, Halo or Combi/Maul/Claws, Inferno, Visage. Mantle
of hate can also be useful.

IG: Combi/Maul, Inferno, Visage.

Sounds about right and is precisely why I question the purpose of the Icon of Khorne accessory.

SM6) So Space Marines can get a Whirlwind onto the field in T2. Just looking over the stats, it's a different flavor of artillery from the Manticore and thus I assume it also is used in a different way. How worthwhile is the Whirlwind in 1v1/team games over other purchases with more straightforward punch like a Dreadnought? Also, how does it compare to Plasma Devastators who also have a role as a form of artillery?

SM2)Scout Marine weapon upgrades vs default bolter.

Sarge and bolters is good for skirmishing i.e. harassing melee squads while they try to cap. You'll also find that they'll hold up surprisingly well against some of the more squishy T1 ranged squads if you can grab heavy cover and they are exposed.

Just as an aside, I highly suggest you experiment with the elite training upgrade. The energy and health regen is very high (I'd wager highest in the game) and in combination with the damage sharing mechanic of the sarge they become resistant to bleed. They will still melt to focus fire but you can use them in some direct confrontation situations that you would otherwise instantly run away from. With shotguns, they can even put the hurt on heavy armor stuff like CSM, provided you can infiltrate into cover and still be in range. With the energy regen from elite training, your limit on grenade/shotgun blast use is only cooldown, provided you don't waste energy needlessly infiltrating.

SM4)Techmarine vs. Tanky Melee Heroes.

I'd be interesting in hearing what other people have to offer on this as well. All the TM's antimelee wargear is useless against unsuppressible/unknockdownable heros, and while his ranged DPS is the best among unupgraded heroes, it's not enough to take these guys down, particularly if they have a shield or charge. In T2, mark target helps a lot along with sterns but T1 can get pretty ugly.

SM5)Techmarine Melee Build.

I find a melee build is only viable if your opponent is unaware of his vulnerability to knockdown or has no 'abusable' knockdown abilities. Stuff like the ranged attack on the merciless witchblade, apo full auto, WSE heavy gauge deathspinners, mek's more dakka global knock him over and then he quickly gets obliterated by the very things he's meant to counter i.e. melee. Bionics will help somewhat, but you'll find just when you need it, a special attack will knock him back and the bionics will completely miss. You also NEED the shield in order to stand up to anything.

He's decent as a jump troop counter, but TBH I find mark target + plasma gun/MCB to be a better counter initiator.

He would be quite good if the shield offered knockback resistance, but that would require a price increase or other rebalance and I quite like how accessible the shield's price point is so I'd rather leave it be. Maybe a price increase on the axe and immunity to knockdown when equipped with shield and axe?

Atlas wrote:SM6) So Space Marines can get a Whirlwind onto the field in T2. Just looking over the stats, it's a different flavor of artillery from the Manticore and thus I assume it also is used in a different way. How worthwhile is the Whirlwind in 1v1/team games over other purchases with more straightforward punch like a Dreadnought? Also, how does it compare to Plasma Devastators who also have a role as a form of artillery?

i would edit this into your original post as well.

Well the idea is that this thread is for everyone and not just me, but I see your point. Think I should just catalog ALL the questions that are posted here into the OP?

you could. the basic issues is that people new to the thread will check the OP and then maybe read however many pages there are. questions stuck in here and there may get missed.

OP updated. Updates will be done automatically from now on. Indexing them there is only a short term solution though since there's a good chance that if enough questions pop in the OP will just get too big.

We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

I just experimented with the scout elite training upgrade Arbit, and I have to say...

I like what I'm seeing

SM1)The turret is still good in certain maps where it's hard to flank, to lock down an objective early game and relieve yourself of VP pressure as you tech later on. The relay beacon loses utility in parallel with the number of units on field, so the number of players is one problem. Also, as a Techmarine you usually field vehicles which don't benefit. Finally, 1v1 maps are much smaller so a retreat is less of a bother. I would consider turrets but refrain from relays in 1v1.

SM2) The sergeant gives you a detector, it's invaluable against certain races and commanders you may face in T1 (specifically the Kommando, Lictor, Eldar Rangers (especially ennoying as hell as SM) and Chaos Sorcerer). The retreat grenade potential is another bonus.

SM3) When your opponent is using dedicated power melee, refrain from Assaults, they will bleed you dry. In these cases controlling the enemy movement/assault is key, and the Devastators will help. Especially vs multiple Banshee, Hormogaunt and Sluggas, I'd rather go with a Devastator squad and Shotgun scouts first thing.

SM4) Your best bet is to rush T2 and get a melee Dreadnought IMO, Techmarine T1 really lacks anything to force these off except concentrated fire, which won't work well while you are taking fire as well. Play defensively, do your best to back-cap while taking measured retreats, harassing. Devastators with Vengeance Rounds can actually greatly help with these commanders, but I wouldn't bet on it.

SM5) It's an option.. But Mark Target+Bolter/Plasmagun (especially with overload) is so good at autoforcing things to retreat that I never bother. The Axe, Bionics and Energy Shield can be fun though.

SM6) Whirlwhind is large area disruption and small damage, Plasma Cannon is small area disruption and plasma splash; if you want to hurt enemy infantry take the Plasma Cannon. If you want to stop the enemy infantry from firing at you, take the Whirlwhind. If the enemy has lots of Plasma/Power Melee units, take the Whirlwhind. If the enemy is packing too much AV take the Plasma Cannon. That's what I do. Granted, I haven't used the Whirlwhind, or seen one used, in ages. Probably needs a damage upgrade.

the whirldwind generally feels that it has more utility in team games since you would be disintegrating your ally's melee units and there are generally tons more enemy units around in narrower lanes just asking to be disrupted. and it's hunter missile is great for knocking out that retreating vehicle trying to get away from you

Yeah, WW is not very viable in 1v1, but in teams it does work great. Both P-devs and WW have some AV utility, although it's not much for either. The other boon of the WW of course is that it can fire over walls and such. It just costs too much to be viable in a 1v1 though, especially its power cost.

E1) How good is the Autarch's Fusion Gun? Don't think I've ever seen it in action.

Atlas wrote:E1) How good is the Autarch's Fusion Gun? Don't think I've ever seen it in action.

In my experience, very good.
If a vehicle is running low on HP, she will finish it. Combined with her bubble shield, and she's a great AV source.
People usually don't get it because her support capabilities (with heal, scorpion shield, and speed buff) usually goes well with DA (damage reduction alongside Exarch upgrade) and banshees (again, damage reduction alongside Exarch upgrade), and also because her sword upgrade is also incredibly good. Last but not least, she's a great capper. All things considered, melta gun probably does not see much use because it's a T3 weapon, and she can take care of many roles very well in T2 - so she adheres to those roles in T3 as well.

It's weak, only 28DPS (while TM is at 37 which is good, and Inq at 43 which is insane, with a better range). It's also overpriced and T3.

It works okish since the Autarch is swift and can flank tanks with her jump. You can see me use it in a few replays on Indrid's channel. But Autarch is a T2 unit that is rarely the best choice in T3, and since her vanilla damage is pitiful, you will likely need the upgraded sword.

the biggest problem with it is that it doesn't work well with her role. she jumps and she's in melee. she runs around and she requires micro to kite and do damage. it's really only good for chasing things but it's very good at that.

it's probably very good at assassinating manticores and the like, but given how well she synergises with an eldar melee horde of doom, I think most ppl would want the spear

General 1)

I only really play CL/CSM, and while it might be early to branch out, how do I approach learning to play new races? Particularly, I would like to learn Commisar Lord/imperial guard and warlock/Eldar - both of which have more ranged focus than I'm typically used to playing. Should I just run a lot of trial and error? Or is there like races/heroes I should try in between to segue into the race of choice?

Question:
When should I build Seercouncil (against which enemy compositions/races/units, 1v1/3v3?), what are they cabable of and how should I use it.

Thanks

P.S. when we are at the topic, same question for Darkreapers and Firedragons, I almost never build them ever. Most of the time because I have not enough requisition, but alot of power. If I build them I am probably behind, and thats no fair place to see their strengths^^. They seem to drop models so freaking quick.