Hive Node

[sk4zi]

yesterday i had a game, where a Ravener was capping my Power, noding it and then putting a Hive node next to it.

the Clod of the hive node was "defending" the Node also. thus i was not able to destroy the node, even with Flamer and Melta Gun (form TM) for half of the game.

i mean its ok that this thing is a strong defensive buff, but its really over the top, that the cloud also protects structures...

[Torpid]

At the point at which the cloud expires but before the cooldown on the ability has been activated the node is extremely vulnerable, furthermore the whole time the node is actually vulnerable so long as you shoot it from maximum range since in elite the cloud no longer affects the node itself, however do note that once you enter the cloud range shooting the node won't do much as the cloud reduces both incoming and outgoing damage, so although the cloud doesn't protect the node, your units will still do pitiful damage due to their damage being nerfed because it's outgoing.

It's obnoxious, but it's at least usable right now.

[appiah4]

Plasma Cannons should deal with it pretty well from out of cloud range IIRC; that's my method of countering any obnoxious area denial like turret spam etc.

[sk4zi]

furthermore the whole time the node is actually vulnerable so long as you shoot it from maximum range since in elite the cloud no longer affects the node itself, however do note that once you enter the cloud range shooting the node won't do much as the cloud reduces both incoming and outgoing damage,

so you mean my flamer was the wrong chioce for that because they needet to move into the outgoing damage reducing range?

good to know ...

in that game it was like a power node trade in early T1 with instantly popped hive node.
i was lucky to cap the opponents node so i had power anyway but actually i was not able to destroy the hive node bevore i hit T2 (way later) and got the Melta ant put huge efford to it.

but of course the melta is also a short range wheapon - so same problem right?

at least i now know how to counter that.

[Torpid]

Well the flamer would melt it very fast once the cloud is down, but you're not going to be giving yourself much time to operate there.

[Indrid]

The cloud doesn't protect the node itself, we tested it. It just has a lot of HP and is generally a pain in the ass.

[Torpid]

No, but the cloud also reduces outgoing damage and it seems that if your flamers are stood in the cloud they don't do hardly any damage, despite the node itself not being outside the cloud, so I'm guessing the outgoing damage is what's causing that.

[Arbit]

From the smoke thread

Emit a protective cloud in radius 25 that lasts 25 seconds. Reduces ranged damage output and received ranged damage by 80% and grants immunity to suppression. Enemy units trapped in the cloud have their speed reduced by 50% and take 5 damage every second.

Tac squad flamer has a range of 24 and TM melta has a range of 20 so Torpid's explanation makes sense. sk4zi, you kitted your army out in the exact wrong way

[Indrid]

Yes that would make sense. Didn't realise the range was 25.

Added it to the bugs/issues list.

[Bahamut]

i dont see what the bug is about the node. It would seem quite odd if a tac flamer would have more range than the spore cloud's, specially when the cloud reduces both enemy and allied range fire alike.

[Indrid]

It's not a bug, but it may or may not be intended by Caeltos that it is that resistive to short range weapons. Perhaps it is, and you're meant to use melee and long range weapons against it. It's added to the list just to bring attention to the fact and see if it needs tuning.

[Tex]

Definitely intended and not a bug IMO. The node is supposed to encourage melee play/builds for the RA and being able to flame it down so easily would suck.

[Lulgrim]

Well we did specifically try in 2 if not 3 patches to make the RA HN take full damage and not protect itself, so in that respect it's not intentional. But ppl only recently figured out the "friendly debuff" fucking up close-range ranged attacks so can't say about final verdict on this.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

The time when Hive nodes were OP and Spammable , Plain just Ridiculous

[sk4zi]

hmm seems a bit odd to me that this is the only structure, which cant be countered by a flamer.
if the normal range is 28 then its actually quite hard to get not in the damage reducing Range of this 25 Radius of the cloud.

[appiah4]

Like I said, Plasma Cannons

I realize that works only for SM but.. Most all races have somethign along those lines.

[sk4zi]

plasma cannons are t2
the hive node is T0

[appiah4]

plasma cannons are t2
the hive node is T0

So are turrets, point being?

[sk4zi]

plasma cannons are t2
the hive node is T0

So are turrets, point being?

that flamers counter turrets?

there is nothing in T1 which cant becountered with t1 stuff. so the point is you cant tell me to counter something which is existing wit even purchased nothing with something which needs T2

but its ok now i know that melee is the thing to do

[appiah4]

plasma cannons are t2
the hive node is T0

So are turrets, point being?

that flamers counter turrets?

there is nothing in T1 which cant becountered with t1 stuff. so the point is you cant tell me to counter something which is existing wit even purchased nothing with something which needs T2

but its ok now i know that melee is the thing to do

Good luck walking a flamer of any kind up to a turret in T1. I'd like to see you try that.

[Dark Riku]

Good luck walking a flamer of any kind up to a turret in T1. I'd like to see you try that.

Flank? Or in case of the FC: Storm Shield. In case of the Warlock you don't even come in any form of danger. Immolate from afar. The list goes on :p

[Myrdal]

Honestly don't see the problem here. Working as intended if you ask me, or was this a l2p discussion?

[appiah4]

Flanking a well placed turret in T1 is nigh impossible and while the SS will stop the suppression it won't stop your tactical/guardsman squad from getting cut down like butter at short range.

[sk4zi]

Honestly don't see the problem here. Working as intended if you ask me, or was this a l2p discussion?

actually i wanted the HN not to protect struchtures... it doesnt, so the thread can be closed.
i wrote this already.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

try taking out a well placed turret as the FS. all you have is infiltration and nothing to rapidly kill it with even if you do get close enough.

[Dark Riku]

I have yet to witness these impossible to flank/kill turrets in 1v1.
Not to mention you can just ignore that tiny part of the map too.
Making the turret useless and wasting your opponents resources and pop.

try taking out a well placed turret as the FS. all you have is infiltration and nothing to rapidly kill it with even if you do get close enough.

Shees do.

[FiSH]

I have yet to witness these impossible to flank/kill turrets in 1v1.

The VPs on the left side of Ashes of Typhon has areas where you can plop unflankable turrets. The game between Chaos Librarian and Eye0fHorus comes to mind.
I am struggling to think of other meaningful places that an unflankable turrets can lock down, but there don't seem to be many...

[Nuclear Arbitor]

Shees do.

not really rapidly the last time i did it. they do work, as does double grenade and then shooting them, but it's no where near as fast as a flamer.

[Asmon]

Plus turrets have a 15 detection radius so even infiltrated shees need to flank. But mostly I wanted to say that grenades don't do much damage to turrets (unless IG's).

[Nuclear Arbitor]

two grenades is 1/2 to 2/3 damage. it's better than nothing but you still have to spend 10 seconds shooting at the turret.