Drop Pod rework

[Caeltos]

The Drop Pod is both good & bad in it's current state. It provides with a reinforcement point, which is good. And when it works, it can reinforce alot of units for a minimum cost compared to regular reinforcement. However, that aspect is extremely random in the heat of battle, and the new approach I'd like to take is to maintain it's reliablity and introduce a more "safe" and very unique and original Drop Pod that was in DoW2 retail. This is that it now provides with a Tactical Marine Squad + Sergeant. If you want to invest in a Sterngard for a cheaper price, calling in a Drop Pod would be a good option. As well as you can utilize it for applying more direct map counter-pressure, or pressure that is via the call-in to respond to threats.

However, with it's pop requirement going up from 0 to 20(Tac+Sergeant= 15+5) it's usefulness might decline in return. Should it be kept at 15 to make more manageable to call-in, and is the Sergeant more of a burden, rather than a luxury call-in addition for your type of playstyle? Another thing I tried to theorycraft is just to make it 15 + a temporary buff towards the Space Marines that drop in

Technically it would be to apply immediate pressure and counterpressure on the overall map, and even assist you in the heat of battle. I'd call the buff "Into the Maelstrom of Battle", you would figure the Tactical Space Marines would be really ready for battle and just anxious to slay his foes as soon as they deploy, so it's really abit theme-oriented into what the mindset would be as soon as you dropped out. Not "Oh, look we're surrounded by battle-brother who needs regrouping. Why couldn't they just reinforce at the HQ?"

* Drop Pod cost increased from 100 to 400
* Drop Pod no longer reinforces units when it lands
* Drop Pod still can still reinforce units
* Drop Pod now drops a squad of Tactical Space Marine with a Sergeant

So comment & feedback appriciated. Remember what I said about Maelstrom + 15 pop or just keeping it flat 15 and what I proposed previously with just acting as a reinforcement point, and not immediate reinforce.

[crazyman64335]

perhaps make it a sternguard or vanguard call in perhaps?

[Caeltos]

perhaps make it a sternguard or vanguard call in perhaps?

Can't make it Vanguard since they're a Tier 3 unit. Sternguards maybe.

[Indrid]

I think it'll be really interesting, especially as a way to quickly get Lv 1 Tacs + Sergeant in the field to get Sternguard rolling.

[Barrogh]

Current Drop Pod may be random, but it's potentially very powerful in 3v3. What is suggested doesn't really cut it in team battles I'd say. Tacs don't contribute enough at that stage to compensate and such a call-in overall doesn't synergize too well with "hold the damn line" theme of creating a reinforcement point (say what you will about SM fluff, but holding the field is what it is used for and what you have to do in team battles whether you are SM or not).

While I understand 1v1 focus, team games are popular in Elite for various reasons, you may wish to consider that.

Unless crippling/removing army-wide reinforcement is where Elite is heading intentionally.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Current Drop Pod may be random, but it's potentially very powerful in 3v3. What is suggested doesn't really cut it in team battles I'd say. Tacs don't contribute enough at that stage to compensate and such a call-in overall doesn't synergize too well with "hold the damn line" theme of creating a reinforcement point (say what you will about SM fluff, but holding the field is what it is used for and what you have to do in team battles whether you are SM or not).

While I understand 1v1 focus, team games are popular in Elite for various reasons, you may wish to consider that.

Unless crippling/removing army-wide reinforcement is where Elite is heading intentionally.

I Seldom seen Drop pod being used in 2v2/ Team games on the battlefield ,it doesn't really paid-off or fit the theme of SM "holding the line" with the Pod acting as an Reinforcement becon(Sort of without TM). Mostly used for Saving the expenses of reinforcing back at Base . This time it gives a Free Tac squad + Sgt attached and it still reinforces afterwards . Man if u lose your Tacs unexpectedly,this Global will save u the trouble ^^

[BaptismByLoli]

This new reworked Drop Pod can somewhat help late game when you lose your Tacs. Would be pretty interesting to see. What will the modifiers of the new buff do to these Tacs? And would be pretty lul to see a drop pod placed directly into set up teams and the emerging Tacs to immediately Force Melee on them.

[Barrogh]

I Seldom seen Drop pod being used in 2v2/ Team games on the battlefield, it doesn't really paid-off or fit the theme of SM "holding the line" with the Pod acting as an Reinforcement becon(Sort of without TM). Mostly used for Saving the expenses of reinforcing back at Base. This time it gives a Free Tac squad + Sgt attached and it still reinforces afterwards.

Aside from home reinforcement I've mostly seen pod deployed in combat actually. The problem with that is obviously that it can be mistimed so that you lose squads anyways. Especially if some of them is getting focused (on reaction to pod is an option too). Given that, I can perfectly see why would people want something more reliable. That said, instant reinforcement can be powerful if timed right, and I'm not sure if we need everything be reliable instead of significant risk and reward ability mechanics, one of those things that make DoW2 different from most RTS (YMMV on wheter it's good or bad thing for any RTS though).

Man if u lose your Tacs unexpectedly,this Global will save u the trouble ^^

That's for sure, especially considering endless possibilities to run out of scoring capping units by the end of battle.

And would be pretty lul to see a drop pod placed directly into set up teams and the emerging Tacs to immediately Force Melee on them.

Pretty much any call-in can do that. I'm not sure if it's a good deal for SM to get that ability though considering that it's the faction that will often have survivable and reliable jump troops. Not a good thing for a direct comparision, but here's that.

Another issue is that you don't often want a reinforcement point someplace your opponent finds convenient to park his setup team. Again, looks like lesser issue in 1v1 though.

[BaptismByLoli]

And would be pretty lul to see a drop pod placed directly into set up teams and the emerging Tacs to immediately Force Melee on them.

Pretty much any call-in can do that. I'm not sure if it's a good deal for SM to get that ability though considering that it's the faction that will often have survivable and reliable jump troops. Not a good thing for a direct comparision, but here's that.

Allow me to be specific.
Enemy: Oh hey its a drop pod full of Tacs! Luckily I have some AC heretics to counter initiate
Venerable Dreadnought: Nope!

[Lulgrim]

Some random thoughts;

If you want options, I could make SG and VG so that you buy the unit from HQ then it goes to the global bar and you can Drop Pod it to the field.

If you want to see DP (lol) during battles it could also land with an AoE inspiration buff instead of the free reinforce action.

[Toilailee]

My only problem with drop pod is that it takes way, way too long to arrive. And so it's very hard to use like cdb.

[L0thar]

I have mixed feelings about it. Now my point of view is coming mainly from FC and 3v3 perspective, I'll leave other heroes and gamemodes to more experienced players.

I have to say the proposed idea would make Drop Pod highly unnactractive option. I've been trying 2 tact with SS support in T1 and I don't think there is a place for 3rd tact in T2 and onward. They are essential early-mid game, but scale rather badly into the late game and eats a lot of pop. So old DP - cheap way to reinforce, new DP - a way how to get a unit I don't really want...

That being said no global have to be usefull for every playstyle, but the current DP can be used regardless of early game composition. The new DP seems more like a burden for T1 tacts heavy builds.

Now if we could configure it like Lulgrim suggested, dropping for example ASM, that would be a different story.

Or why not make it drop a new unique unit? I really like the Plague of Undeath rework and this feels rather bland compared to it.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

can you make units built from the hq deploy at the rally marker like the upgrade in the sc2 campaign?

or having the global place a relay beacon which would be able to target a squad for a certain amount of red. the targeted squad would get moved to the drop pod spot in the global bar and could be dropped in where ever. the SM player get's a drop pod and a surprise callin of an existing unit out of it.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

Some random thoughts;

If you want options, I could make SG and VG so that you buy the unit from HQ then it goes to the global bar and you can Drop Pod it to the field.

If you want to see DP (lol) during battles it could also land with an AoE inspiration buff instead of the free reinforce action.

i go with Lugrim's suggestion =0

[Magus Magi]

Some random thoughts;

If you want options, I could make SG and VG so that you buy the unit from HQ then it goes to the global bar and you can Drop Pod it to the field.

If you want to see DP (lol) during battles it could also land with an AoE inspiration buff instead of the free reinforce action.

I LOVE this idea.

Dynamic, fun to use, unique, makes the drop pod a much more interesting global, and you still have to foot the bill in terms of pop and resource costs.

[Barrogh]

I feel that soon this thread will go all "let's make SM drop race".

I'm not sure if I'm daydreaming here, but wasn't there some sort of support for "secondary global bar" or something like that in the game's engine? Could be used in vanilla maybe, but I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just mixing up games, dunno.

Another option is to call-in closed pod which will have several abilities (basically, allowing to pick a unit to release after which pod goes into regular "mode" we all know), but I have no idea how to make it so that you have to build unit first, the way people seem to intend.

Then again, this can become silly rather fast.

[lolzarz]

I know I sound kind of radical and silly, but I suggest making 2 drop pods with each containing one squad of veterans, much like a terminator call-in, except with drop-pod. But if this is disagreed on, I think that your idea is fine.

[Sub_Zero]

I like that it is getting reworked because the ability is highly unreliable and rarely used. However I don't think that removal of instantaneous reinforcements is a good way to do it better. I like the Lulgrim's ideas. For example the warrior brood call in reinforces your units, does knockback and gives you a unit for a cheaper price. It doesn't reinforce afterwards though and the knockback is not as strong as the drop pod's knockback.

Will terminators finally be allowed to reinforce from drop pods?

[Black Relic]

Temporary buff i think should be a defensive buff instead of inspiration if you want to keep the hold the line type of feel. But i will miss the reinforcing power of the drop pod. Helps tons when you really do need to hold. The only problem is that normally you have to plan on using it in the first place and not "oo i need to use it" since 5 seconds is enough time to wipe a squad any squad in this game (excluding obvious units as an exception though.

We'll see how this works out. I am a bit skeptical though.

[Arbit]

400 red seems pretty steep. It's more red than terminators and approaches the cost of nuke. It also would mean the TM would have nothing to do with his red until he builds a vehicle or he's very deep into T2.

Is there really nothing our modders/animators can do to shorten the drop pod animation time? I really think the current implementation of the global would be excellent with a shorter arrival time.

[Dark Riku]

400 red

It's 400 req you silly.

[Arbit]

DERP

In that case, I could see this being pretty useful for getting a stern squad on the field quickly. Between the build time for tacs, upgrade time for the sarge, and the time needed to walk them out to the battlefield, that's a lot of saved time. It would be a quick way for an SM player to get back into the game after losing a tac squad.

[Sub_Zero]

Well today I have proven myself yet again that a well timed drop pod wins you engagements. Reinforced 3 tactical marines and 2 vanguard veterans. So the loss of this ability will be pretty sad. Does anyone support me on this matter? Looks like you are not too bothered about that.

[Barrogh]

Well today I have proven myself yet again that a well timed drop pod wins you engagements. Reinforced 3 tactical marines and 2 vanguard veterans. So the loss of this ability will be pretty sad. Does anyone support me on this matter? Looks like you are not too bothered about that.

Well, I've expressed this concern already.
I think I'd rather support the idea to attempt to reduce pod's arrival time if possible (or at least trigger 1st wave reinforcement earlier, before pod is fully arrived/opened), that would indeed increase it's usefulness to the point of being reliable enough. Not something completely failproof still, but seeing how it's still about proper execution and potentially huge payoff, I'd say it's ok.

Maybe it's about 1v1 vs team games perspective again, but I think I've already posted on the matter.

[Torpid]

I can only see this as a nerf to be honest. It's just reducing the viability of the global and it's already pretty strong so long as you time it right. It would obviously be better to just reduce the time it takes for the drop pod to land by 1 or 2 seconds, but even without such a change I think I'de prefer the drop pod to remain as it is :S

[L0thar]

Well today I have proven myself yet again that a well timed drop pod wins you engagements. Reinforced 3 tactical marines and 2 vanguard veterans. So the loss of this ability will be pretty sad. Does anyone support me on this matter? Looks like you are not too bothered about that.

Well, I've expressed this concern already.
I think I'd rather support the idea to attempt to reduce pod's arrival time if possible (or at least trigger 1st wave reinforcement earlier, before pod is fully arrived/opened), that would indeed increase it's usefulness to the point of being reliable enough. Not something completely failproof still, but seeing how it's still about proper execution and potentially huge payoff, I'd say it's ok.

Maybe it's about 1v1 vs team games perspective again, but I think I've already posted on the matter.

I share the sentiment too. The loss of instant "free" reinforcement hurts. More because its kind of unique, unlike just being reinforcement point, which is provided also by razorback, LRR and TM's relay.

I would rather keep the instant reinforcement and loss the ability to reinforce later.

As for the reliability problem...what if it's redesigned so it keeps reinforcing for 5 seconds (like CDB)? Then you could call it down earlier and have bigger window of opportunity to make use of it.

[Arbit]

I think you guys may be underestimating how good this global might be. The problem with the pod as a reinforcement point was that it was squishy and getting pushed back even momentarily would result in it getting destroyed. With the new global you have a shiny new tactical squad + sarge right there to defend it which will cause a bigger swing than the few models you can realistically get off the free reinforcement effect. Plus, with the new global you get a lasting benefit (a discount tac squad and sarge) and if you can defend the pod it's gravy. With the global the way it is now if you mistime it you can be pushed off the field before it hits and you basically burn your red and req for nothing. And let's be honest, it's not easy to correctly time it in combat because six seconds is a long time in this game. Easily long enough for a blastmaster shot to come out of the fog of war and annihilate a low health squad you wanted to reinforce with the pod.

[Bahamut]

agreed with torpid. this changes seem like a nerf to me

drop pod isn't only for the reinforce it also helps a fuck ton with map presence. hopefully I'm not the only one that uses the drop pod for fhe pod itself

[viggih]

Caeltos.

You are clearly missing a golden opportunity to have an SM global named: Steel Rain

Shame on you for missing such an obvious thing


+++Thought for the day+++

The Codex Astartes does not support this naming scheme

[Indrid]

I think the animation time is hard coded or something and the call-in time can't be reduced.