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Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean 1
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 10:59 am
by Superhooper01
With the land raider Phobos able to be chaos main source of av along with laz pred i feel that the great unclean1s use as a counter to vehicles has always been lacking true it can do good damage especially on rear Armour but seeing as it can be snared by tanks and set up teams and without worship his ability to handle vehicles is lacking in my eyes.
To help counter this i was hoping that a ability can be added much like the carnifex ripper spawn but instead be Nurgles little devils nurgleings. wouldn't be much use in fighting but could be used to snare vehicles and tie up melee squads allowing the big guy to waddle of without worship.
This would allow for great unclean1s to be a better source of av and give them a chance to escape certain engagements were without worship they would go down to vehicle chases or simply be killed by Knob squad or any unit due to no support.
I feel this change would not make him to good just allow him to maybe be more effective vs vehicles and increase its (his) chances of getting out of fights or bad engagements. Nurgleings can have the same dps and health as rippers so they wouldn't increase the great ones fighting ability's just what ive already said. Hope this makes sense as i was pretty ill when writing this hope to hear feedback NURGLE PROTECTS!
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:31 pm
by Phoenix
I dont know man. I Feel like the main Source of av nowadays is the lascannon havoc anyway since You Need the havoc in your bo for a smooth transition into T2.
The guo's Function is more or less line breaking and soaking up damage. To give him rippers slowing enemies' vehicles combined with khorne worship for example might be a bit too much.
I dont know how a knob squad should kill a guo though.
Edit: Please get some structure into your post; this wall of Text is not appealing.
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:35 pm
by BaptismByLoli
Superhooper01 wrote:With the land raider Phobos able to be chaos main source of av along with laz pred i feel that the great unclean1s use as a counter to vehicles has always been lacking true it can do good damage especially on rear Armour but seeing as it can be snared by tanks and set up teams and without worship his ability to handle vehicles is lacking in my eyes. To help counter this i was hoping that a ability can be added much like the carnifex ripper spawn but instead be Nurgles little devils nurgleings. wouldn't be much use in fighting but could be used to snare vehicles and tie up melee squads allowing the big guy to waddle of without worship. this would allow for great unclean1s to be a better source of av and give them a chance to escape certain engagements were without worship they would go down to vehicle chases or simply be killed by Knob squad or any unit due to no support. I feel this change would not make him to good just allow him to maybe be more effective vs vehicles and increase its (his) chances of getting out of fights or bad engagements. Nurgleings can have the same dps and health as rippers so they wouldn't increase the great ones fighting ability's just what ive already said. Hope this makes sense as i was pretty ill when writing this hope to hear feedback NURGLE PROTECTS!
Superhooper01 wrote:Please get some structure into your post; this wall of Text is not appealing. ? what u mean by that i clearly listed why he needed the ability and backed it up:/
Use paragraphs =D
First, talk about the issue
Then on a new paragraph talk about what can be done
Next paragraph give points, reason etc that sort of jazz
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:39 pm
by Superhooper01
when i said knob squad it is to allow him to escape because without his cloud of flies and puke he cant really force them off if the knobs are supported. u cant count on a laz cannon havoc for av they are easy wiped or knocked down and a laz pred cant fight a BB or certain vehicles supported etc.
Please get some structure into your post; this wall of Text is not appealing. ? what u mean by that i clearly listed why he needed the ability and backed it up:/
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:41 pm
by Superhooper01
Ah paragraphs my bad
will do that now.
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:41 pm
by Torpid
1) Please use paragraphs. Your posts bleed my eyes.
2) Tanks can't snare things.
3) The GUO is not meant to be a proper source of AV. He does HM solely for the purpose of wading off threats. He's the ultimate tank. He doesn't do colossal DPS, but nonetheless nothing, vehicle or otherwise, wants to come near him. He has great crowd control and is very durable. If he was excellent at hunting down isolated vehicles then the LRP would be pointless. No, this change is not in accordance with the spirit of the GUO.
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:44 pm
by Superhooper01
Torpid i may be wrong but doesn't a BB snare with its arsenal?
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:44 pm
by BaptismByLoli
Superhooper01 wrote:With the land raider Phobos able to be chaos main source of av along with laz pred i feel that the great unclean1s use as a counter to vehicles has always been lacking true it can do good damage especially on rear Armour but seeing as it can be snared by tanks and set up teams and without worship his ability to handle vehicles is lacking in my eyes.
To help counter this i was hoping that a ability can be added much like the carnifex ripper spawn but instead be Nurgles little devils nurgleings. wouldn't be much use in fighting but could be used to snare vehicles and tie up melee squads allowing the big guy to waddle of without worship.
This would allow for great unclean1s to be a better source of av and give them a chance to escape certain engagements were without worship they would go down to vehicle chases or simply be killed by Knob squad or any unit due to no support.
I feel this change would not make him to good just allow him to maybe be more effective vs vehicles and increase its (his) chances of getting out of fights or bad engagements. Nurgleings can have the same dps and health as rippers so they wouldn't increase the great ones fighting ability's just what ive already said. Hope this makes sense as i was pretty ill when writing this hope to hear feedback NURGLE PROTECTS!
So beautiful (readable)
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 12:49 pm
by Torpid
Superhooper01 wrote:Torpid i may be wrong but doesn't a BB snare with its arsenal?
It does light suppression with its heavy bolters, but it doesn't snare. It does have lascannons though. Maybe you mistaken a generic heavy weapon team lascannon shot for a baneblade lascannon shot?
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 1:05 pm
by Superhooper01
yeah thats sounds like something i could of mistaken but u say this change is not in accordance with the spirit of the GUO. Whats the spirit.
In the lore he certainly would have them and it wouldn't change his role as a line breaker if anything would in-force that role giving a unit that costs a ton (req 800, power 200) a better combat role for vs vehicles and giving more chances of escape and not having him get chased down by predator tanks or any teir 3 tank which do tons of damage to him
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 1:06 pm
by Barrogh
I always felt that summoning abilities as a concept were always pretty powerful in DoW games (even first one) due to ranged/melee interaction and CC'ing aspect of it, and this is especially true in DoW2 due to how dramatic messing with setup teams can be and, in a way, how fast-paced the game is compared to DoW1.
Giving such powerful (ripper spawning is already annoying, but these suggested balls of fun seems to be even better) ability to GUO just because we feel so isn't truly justified, I'm afraid.
Also, don't forget that summons that snare mech won't do so just for your GUO to hit them, you still will have those tanks you've mentioned, plus all the bloodletter/hugbot/whatever goodness.
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 1:16 pm
by Phoenix
Just realised you were talking about nobs and not about Kommandos with the Term knob squad; makes more sense like this
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 1:35 pm
by Kvek
Superhooper01 wrote:when i said knob squad it is to allow him to escape because without his cloud of flies and puke he cant really force them off if the knobs are supported. u cant count on a laz cannon havoc for av they are easy wiped or knocked down and a laz pred cant fight a BB or certain vehicles supported etc.
Please get some structure into your post; this wall of Text is not appealing. ? what u mean by that i clearly listed why he needed the ability and backed it up:/
and what about eldar? their brightlance gets easily forced off too, every setup team gets forced off easily so buff every race with a setup team?
no, you're meant to protect your havocs not just put them somewhere and wiat till something wipes them out, and there's not a tank that can fight bb, and what does certain vehicles supported mean? i suppose you're trying to say that every supported tank is impossible to deal with as chaos? then you should first force off the support, or you could support your pred as well
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 1:50 pm
by Torpid
The point of the GUO is that tanks counter them. He counters things such as nobs and blobs of infantry and in general he serves as a damage sponge as well as a great counter-initiator. Very different unit from the baneblade who is just a colossal weapons platform.
How are havocs so useless? The GUO's presence greatly improves the effectiveness of havocs. You can foul snare artillery, blobs of ranged units are vomited, jump units are counter-initiated by his sword/swarm of flies.
The LRP is far more effective as a baneblade counter than the GUO and that's because the LRP is a weapons platform itself, although of course an inferior one for fairly obvious reasons (IG T2 is shit, chaos T2 is not).
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 7:20 pm
by Superhooper01
Ive never tested a BB vs a LRP but im 90% sure the BB will win and mark of tzeentch preds get tore apart by BB:(
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 7:30 pm
by Torpid
The BB wins. But that's the BB. If we just look at the stats of the BB and what it does compared to every other unit in the game it's overpowered. Hands down.
But that's the problem of team games. You never see baneblades in 1v1 so they're certainly not OP there, hell IG rarely even hits t3 in 1v1s. This is the huge trade-off between team game balanced and 1v1.
All I can say is that the LRP will do the best that pretty much anything chaos have against a BB. However using BBs as a basis for any balance change is never a good idea because they're a dumbass cheese unit that is only found in team games (and in fact 90% of the time 3v3).
IG T3 is ridiculously OP in team games, but in 1v1 they never get to T3 so it has to be pretty good for it to be worth it :S
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 7:36 pm
by Bahamut
well, BB is 1000/200, LRP is 700/180. Also LRP can get worshiped
Team games (2v2s and 3v3s) are important factors in balance as well, saying that they shouldnt be counted for balance is just stupid. Anyway, i haven't had enough experience with the BB and the little i've had hasnt been of "OMG BB SO OP SFJSFHJSF" i sometimes am glad the IG player went for a BB instead of leman spam, lemans have an innate 35% damage reduction to all sources of damage so their effective hp and the effective healing of repair is way way better for the price and pop
That said, i gotta said OH THE SADNESS there's a unit that's better than a chaos one. chaos has a billion tools to deal with a baneblade, reaper cannon termies, havocs, LRP, tzeentch dreads, plague marines.... Just because the LRP can't solo a BB doesnt mean the BB needs a nerf and the LRP needs a buff. It has always pissed me off how Chaos balancing logic is "if a chaos unit can't just straight out overpower its counterpart it needs a buff"
Re: Help please lord nurgle add Nurgleings to great unclean
Posted: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 5:02 am
by HandSome SoddiNg
Superhooper01 wrote:With the land raider Phobos able to be chaos main source of av along with laz pred i feel that the great unclean1s use as a counter to vehicles has always been lacking true it can do good damage especially on rear Armour but seeing as it can be snared by tanks and set up teams and without worship his ability to handle vehicles is lacking in my eye
:
Ehh, those Nurglings will surround the vehicle and snare its movement for rear armors hit from GUO? . Besides ,Chaos alry has multiple AV options ,well only PM/Havocs snare ,Raptors with melta-guns/LRP/Tzeetch dread,etc.
,i 'am still thinking Warp smith/Slannesh Sub-commanders for Chaos for T2. Their the only HI race without a sub-comm yet ,hehe